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Gary if you would like to try a Civ version of F&E give the Early Beginnings Scenario a try. John Wong and the CA group have developed a very exciting scenario that can even include races like the Andros and/or ISC. You do have options to use the Andros or not but either way...VERY fun.

Your ideas regarding Early Years are good though just thought I'd let you know about EB.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Thanks!


Where is the info on the Early Beginnings scenario?


Gary

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Email Tim Losberg, he has all the files for it. It is quite fun to do.

By Geof Clark (Spartan) on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 08:49 pm: Edit

DELETED, VIOLATION OF COPYRIGHT.

By Mike Curtis (Nashvillen) on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 09:06 pm: Edit

Geof, I do believe you have violated ADB's copyright by posting this, I may be wrong, but you should check with SVC before posting anyting on the web about any ADB product.

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 09:56 pm: Edit

But as long as he only posts it on the SFB/F+E site and nowhere else, shouldn't it be okay?

By Geof Clark (Spartan) on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 01:03 am: Edit

The spreadsheet I posted above is accessible ONLY thru the link above, and it not generally accesible to random folks browsing my site. I have read the ADB copywrite text, and I do not believe I have violated it.

By Geof Clark (Spartan) on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 03:01 am: Edit

SVC, please see my recent email to you, requesting authorization.

If you feel I have violated your copyright, I will remove the document from my website, and use it only for personal purposes.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 08:35 am: Edit

The Tricky thing with EY F&E is how the races scale differently in fleet battles. The Feds, Klingons, Lyrans, and Y-Carnivons are relatively balanced, with regard to being able to fight at range and being able to knife-fight. The W-Carnivons, Hydrans, and Kzintis are a different story, with only minimal long range firepower, requiring knife-fighting range in order to inflict damage. How this ties in to F&E BIR will be an interesting discussion. Without it, though, you are simply not accurately portraying the genre as, with full 10 ship fleets, the "close-range" races will take devastating losses to even get to damage-causing range.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 09:54 am: Edit

Geof Clark: remove the SIT you posted IMMEDIATELY as it violates ADB copyright and ADB policy.

I admire your enthusiasm, but you are not the one to create such a chart and are in violation of law and copyright to post it.

I trust that this will be done immediately and that I won't have to pursue further steps.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 09:55 am: Edit

Geof:I have received no such email. As it would violate well-known and long-posted ADB policy to allow you to post it, I cannot do so.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 09:59 am: Edit

"Geof, I do believe you have violated ADB's copyright by posting this" CORRECT, HE HAS.

"you should check with SVC before posting anyting on the web about any ADB product." NOT QUITE TRUE, AS A LOT OF STUFF (SUCH AS REVIEWS) IS FAIR GAME. ANYTHING THAT LOOKS LIKE "OFFICIAL" MATERIAL IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED, AND THIS CROSSES THAT LINE.

"SVC, please see my recent email to you, requesting authorization." YOU NEED TO ASK FIRST, NOT AFTER OTHERS TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE VIOLATING COPYRIGHTS.

"But as long as he only posts it on the SFB/F+E site and nowhere else, shouldn't it be okay?" ABSOLUTELY *NOT* OK, NOT AT ALL. POLICY PUBLISHED EIGHT YEARS AGO CLEARLY MAKES IT *NOT* OK.

"The spreadsheet I posted above is accessible ONLY thru the link above" THIS POINT IS TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY IRELEVANT TO THE QUESTION.

"I have read the ADB copywrite text, and I do not believe I have violated it." READ IT AGAIN SINCE YOU HAVE.

By Geof Clark (Spartan) on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 10:11 am: Edit

I have removed it, as I stated I would. I hope you realize that it was not posted to any other site other than this BBS.

I sent the authorizatiuon form for OTHER materials, to deals@starfleetgames.com last night. I will send again if necessary.

So, given that my previous communication vehicle has failed, what are the thoughts of the group as to the appropriate compot values for EY units? In CL18, the D4 is stated as 4-6/2-3, vs a Lyran CA of 5-6/3. Can this be a standard around which most YCAs work?

Andy, is this that much different than how races scale in GW-era SFB? I agree, EY Kzintis need different tactics, but they face a smaller damage potential from range as well.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 10:57 am: Edit

I found your after-the-fact request in one of my spam traps. Never ever post anything like that without permission, and permission is ONLY given for original creations (say, a new ship or scenario) and is NEVER EVER given for home brew charts, annexs, or SITs.

And BTW, you posted the LINK here but the SIT on Geocities. That is a MAJOR NO-NO.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 11:46 am: Edit

Geof. MY races don't have quite the disparity in long ranged fire power. Take the Klingo-Kzinti wars. In the Y-era, the Klingons have 2 disr per ship plus phasers versus the Kzintis with no disrupters and fewer phasers. This is a significant disparity that is far larger than the MY delta of 4 disr per ship plus ph-2s versus 2 disr per ship plus fewer ph-1s.

As for combat values, the CL18 values seem reasonable to me.

By Geof Clark (Spartan) on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Andy, would you recommend a rule that requires the Kzinti to select a minimum BIR to use their compot.? This would simulate the tactic of closing with reinforcement, and possible erratic manuevers in orer to flank the enemy and close in to a range where Kzinti weapons are effective.

Perhaps a YCS would be 4-6/2-3 at BIR 4, but only 2-6/1-3 at a lower BIR?

But this, of course opens a floodgate, since tactics will differ greatly with fixed defenses, where drones can be effective at longer ranges ....

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 03:32 pm: Edit

I agree - it is a complex issue.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 06:06 pm: Edit

Assuming that Y2 gets picked in the final selection for production this year, it would be interesting (to me, at least) to see OBs for the early ISC - perhaps for non-historical clashes with Paravian, Romulan or Gorn ships, or with each other!


Gary

By Geof Clark (Spartan) on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 06:52 pm: Edit

That would be great fun.

Did you see the "Through the Looking Glass" F&E campaign, with a new map with all the Y races?

Geof

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - 09:40 pm: Edit

Yeah - if you have a look in the 'Alternative Reality Manuals' thread at the PD boards, I actually wrote up my own take on the ISC in an alternate universe - plus map!


Gary

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 06:14 am: Edit

This would probably be the only way I'll ever play F&E, unless they decide to make a computer version.

By Allan MacKenzie-Graham (Amg) on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Sorry to bring this up again, but "Where is the info on the Early Beginnings scenario? "
I realize I am a few years late...

Thanks,

Allan

I dunno how to get in touch with Tim Losberg.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Memo for Record

Consider updating and including the CL18 scenario "The Hydran Liberation"

Other F&E scenarios set before Y136 should be concidered for this product also.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Deleted by author

By Keith Plymale (Zaarin7) on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 06:48 pm: Edit

I can post the original here if you want me too.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, October 26, 2020 - 02:48 pm: Edit

A note for future consideration:

If or when there might be an opportunity to represent the Great Klingo-Tholian War of Y92-Y102 in a potential Early Years product for F&E, the recently-uploaded Tholian Master Starship Book might be worth using as a point of reference, as it has a section consolidating the relevant Y-era data on the early Holdfast from various Star Fleet Battles modules and issues of Captain's Log.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, October 27, 2020 - 05:34 pm: Edit

It automatically would be reviewed in that case without you reminding us. We review everything every time we do anything.