I am beginning to wonder if the two of you play a bit conservative with ships during the game? Trying to hold on to as many as you can instead of fighting and losing ships to kill ships?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, June 02, 2018 - 08:52 am: Edit

I don't understand your statement.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, June 02, 2018 - 01:44 pm: Edit

Fair turn for the Allies - other than winning 'everywhere' - only pain part is probably the loss of the TG+SP?

Quite a few middle level ships lost for the Coalition and so things will start to hurt for them...… so will the Alliance have a golden period until PF's arrive?

Although, what might the Kzinti lose from the forces which are out of supply?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, June 02, 2018 - 06:59 pm: Edit

Yeah, I dunno--the Kzinti having forward deployed ships, even if they are starting the turn out of supply, will be a problem. If I attack them and put them out of supply, I have to be *super* careful, as otherwise a reserve fleet can attack something cutting them out of supply (to open up supply to them...). And they can also send reserves to save the stranded ships, and then start AT17 with a significant pile (30+) ships in range of deep, important Lyran targets (the stranded Kzinti are in 0602/0603). Like, it isn't impossible that I can both attack them and have them start AT17 out of supply, but it will be tricky and there is a lot of opportunity for failure. Which might result in the Lyrans having to pull a bunch of ships back to protect SB 0404/0608/their capital.

This, combined with the main Hydran force currently sitting in 0316 (i.e. in range of SB 0411) puts a lot of pressure on the Lyrans. They also can probably be cut out of supply (more easily than the Kzinti, at least), but still, it is problematic.

Jason probably feels pessimistic about all of this, but I think this was a very good turn for the Alliance, even though I out rolled him insanely all turn.

The TG+SP kill was just a super lucky set of dice with the B10--VBIR rolled up +2, and the Klingons rolled high, so I did, like, 40 damage, and figured I had the chance to whack the TG+SP, so I took it. Really, it just costs, what, 6+5 to replace, so hardly a killing blow or anything, but still, seemed like a good hit.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Sunday, June 03, 2018 - 09:39 am: Edit

I think that the Lyrans and Klingons should both spend maximum EP on building PDUs on the Capitals.

Its the only way to stop me !

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 - 04:59 pm: Edit

AT16

The turn is over!

In Hydran space, once again, most of the Hydrans moved off map. I'm assuming Jason wants to avoid getting beat up and stranded out of supply on the Coalition turn, at which point being off map is about the same as starting his next turn out of supply and down fighters. There are still 4 Hydrans in 0118 and then two modest reserves off map.

In Kzinti space, most Kzinti ships are either in the capital or over SB 1704. There 4 ship squadrons on planets 1202 and 1502, and there are still the 17 ships (3 of which are crippled, and they are down fighters) stranded out of supply in hexes 0602 and 0603. There are two pretty good reserves off map.

On the Fed/Klingon front, there are 100+ ships holding planet 2306, two dozen+ ships at planet 2403 (which still has 2PDU), and a handful of ships on planet 2505 and SB 2808.

There are 65 ships, a handful of cripples, and then 4 reserves totaling another about 40 ships in the Fed capital (so 100+ ships there).

On the Fed/Rom front, there are 60 ships on SB 3604; handfuls of ships on BATS 3206, planets 3005 and 3306 (both devastated), and SB 3008.

On the Gorn front, there are 35 ships on SB 4206, 38 ships on SB 4806, 30 ships in 4403, two modest reserves in 4402, and a few small groups of ships on various planets and BATS.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 - 08:47 pm: Edit

CT17

Things of note:
-TGC in 1811 is supply TG.
-12 Lyrans in 2106 are adopted by Klingons.
-15 Lyrans in 1001 (partial grid) are resupplied by spending 2EPs, and then 2 more to smuggle in 1, supplying 15 ships and buying 6 fighters.

y176 FA T17

Lyran Econ:

Command Points: 2

Exploration: 162+5=167 (+7, 190 next)

Treasury: 95.6

On Map (56): 56 (.75)=40.5
Off Map (24): 38 (.75)=28.5
Capital (35): 35 (.75)=26.25
Captured: 11.8 (.75)=8.85
Salvage: 12.25 (AT16)

Total: 211.95

Construction T17:
-10 BC
-10 STT
-6 NCA
-8 CWS
-7+12 CVL
-6 CWE
-15 3DWE
-7.5 3FF (0404, 0608, 0408)
-15 3FF (overbuild)

Construction Total: 96.5

Conversions:
-6 CL>BC (0408)
-2 DW>DWS (0404)
-2 DW>DWS (1407)
-3 DD>CWE (0411)

Conversion Total: 13

Repairs:
-1.5 (DW 0404)
-1.5 (CL 0408)
-1.5 (CW 0411)
-7.5 (2CW, 3DW 1407)
-2 (F5, FF 0617)

Repair Total: 14

Pay To Supply Ships: 4 (2+2 smuggled) 15 ships, 6 fighters, partial grid 1001.

Total Spent: 127.5

Treasury: 84.45 (CT16)

FFF Left: 0

Salvage:

-----------------------------------------------

Klingon Econ:

Command Points: 6

Exploration: 95+10=105 (+5, 130 next)

Treasury: 89.075

On Map (93): 91 (.75)=67.5
Off Map (0): 10 (.75)=7.5
Capital (49): 49 (.75)=36.75
Captured: 47.4 (.75)=35.55
Salvage: 13.05 (AT16)

Total: 249.425

Construction T17:
-9 D7C
-10 D6M
-12 D6S
-6 D5W
-40 8D5
-12 3F5W
-24 6F5E
-2.5 E4
-15 3E4 (overbuild)
-0 F6 (free, 2/4)

Construction Total: 130.5

Conversions:
-3 D5>D5S (1411)
-1 F5>F5E (0617)

Conversion Total: 5

Repairs:
-10 (STT, D6M, 2D5, FF 1407)
-1 (F5 1813)
-1.5 (D5 2916)

Repair Total: 12.5

Adopting Lyrans: 6 (BC, STT, 3CW, 3DW, 3FF, CWS 2106, CT17)

Adoption Total: 6

Total Spent: 154

Treasury: 95.425

DBB:

Field Repair:

FFF Left: 0

Salvage:
-----------------------------------------------
Romulan Econ:

Command Points: 2+1=3

Spare Parts: 4-1=3

Exploration: 34+16=50 (+2, 60 next)

Treasury: 118.675

On Map (79): 78 (.75)=58.5
Off Map (0): 4 (.75)=3
Capitals (34): 34 (.75)=25.5
Captured: 22.6 (.75)=16.95
Salvage: 5.5 (AT16)

Total: 228.125

Construction T17:
-17 CON
-10 FHF
-7 SPF
-6+16 SPB
-15 3SP
-5.5 SKF
-7 2SEE (sub SK)
-3.5 SEE
-10 FAL
-2.5 SN
-15 3SEH (Overbuild)
-5 Command Point

Construction Total: 119.5

Activations:
-2 2BH

Activation Total: 2

Conversions:
-2 2BH>BHE (4613)
-3 2SP>SPM, SEH>SEE (4411)
-3 WE>KE (4812)

Conversion Total: 8

Repairs:
-1.5 (SP 4310)
-1.5 (SP 4510)
-1 (SN 4212)

Repair Total: 4

Total Spent: 133.5

Treasury: 94.625

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 - 09:19 pm: Edit

Did the Romulans go to Limited War? If not they hit exhaustion at the same time as the Klingons, Lyrans, Kzintis, and Hydrans.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 - 09:35 pm: Edit

You see the part where their econ is multiplied by .75 just like everyone else, yeah?

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 - 10:45 pm: Edit

Ok. I missed where they paid for the command point.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 - 02:27 am: Edit

Well, the Coalition don't seem to be suffering too much - although salvage paid for about 2/3rd's of the overbuilt ships.

How come the Lyrans got cut off?

(After blaming that poor Kzinti admiral for getting cut off - the Lyran Admiral seems to have got away scott free and not been blamed yet )

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 - 06:42 am: Edit

In terms of trading ships I lost about 80 EP worth of ships and Peter lost about 120 EP worth.

Im happy trading frigates for cruisers and scouts.

As for the cut off Kzinti Peter has to be super careful. He can hurt me or hurt himself depending on his moves.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 - 09:08 am: Edit

>>Ok. I missed where they paid for the command point.>>

Oh, heh, yeah, that. We are using Admirals, so no one has gotten a free command point all game anyway :-)

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 - 09:13 am: Edit

>>Well, the Coalition don't seem to be suffering too much - although salvage paid for about 2/3rd's of the overbuilt ships.>>

Yeah, they still have robust economies, although they are starting to dwindle. I suspect that once I start taking significant cripples from attacking fixed defenses (which I have to start doing *eventually*...), all that extra cash will vanish pretty fast.

>>How come the Lyrans got cut off?>>

They are sitting on planet 1001, and the only Lyran supply point within 6 hexes of planet 1001 is SB 0404, and those stranded Kzinti are blocking supply between 0404 and 1001. The Kzinti killed the 3 BATS on the border last turn, so supply has become complicate in the west end of Kzinti space. Ya know, for the Lyrans.

There is also a dozen Lyrans that were a reserve fleet that ended up in Fed space and got past their supply reach, so they got adopted as Klingons.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, June 07, 2018 - 09:17 am: Edit

CT17

Moves have started happening. In Hydran space, the Klingons sent a huge fleet to beat up the single hex of 4 Hydrans left on the map. If only we could figure out where the rest of their ships keep going every turn.

In Kzinti space, so far, the Coalition have pinned all the ships on SB 1704, sent a force to reconquer planet 1802, and have engaged the forward deployed, stranded Kzinti, while leaving enough ships at planet 1001 to essentially prevent the Kzinti reserves from reinforcing them. Like, not much will happen to those ships; they'll lose a couple already crippled FFs and maybe a CM, but they'll mostly avoid too much murdering.

On the Fed/Klingon front, the Klingons have sent the B10 and buddies to go take planet 2403 (defended by 2 dozen ships and 2PDU, but also out of range of the Fed reserves), and then another force to go kill BATS 2201 that can likely beat whatever is there (8 ships) plus the Kzinti reserves if they show up.

On the Fed/Rom front, the Coalition have sent comically oversized forces to go kill lightly defended BATS 3206 and recapture devastated planet 3306 (as noted, the Feds have, like, 40 some odd ships in reserve at the Capital, so the math that says "we beat any place where all the reserves show up" is kind of running the show currently).

On the Gorn front, the Romulans have sent a lot of ships to SB 4806. It remains to be seen if they intend on trying to kill it this turn, but there are currently twice as many Romulans as Gorns there.

Moves continue.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, June 07, 2018 - 01:38 pm: Edit

"If only we could figure out where the rest of their ships keep going every turn. "

In a Pantomime voice...

"They are behind you"

By jim howard (Noseybonk) on Thursday, June 07, 2018 - 07:31 pm: Edit

the simple answer is 3 starbases on the entry line paul will be seeing this fairly soon once our game resumes.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, June 07, 2018 - 10:09 pm: Edit

CT17

Moves look to be about done at this point.

There is one fight in Hydran space, with a ton of Coalition against 4 Hydrans that had the audacity to stay on the map. Probably will see an HN die and them retreat.

In Kzinti space, there are two fights against stranded ships in 0602/0603; reserves can reach them. There is also a fight at planet 1202, a fight at planet 1802, and a fight (which is clearly just a pin fight) over SB 1704.

On the FED/KLI front, there are mobs of Coalition over BATS 2201, minor planet 2403, and devastated minor planet 2509.

On the FED/ROM front, there are mobs of Coalition over BATS 3206 and devastated major 3306.

On the Gorn front, there are reasonable fleets vs undefended BATS 4808 and 5006 (reserves can't reach either) and a ton of Romulans over SB 4806.

A few more ships will probably move.

By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Thursday, June 07, 2018 - 10:27 pm: Edit

if you mean simply said, i agree. if you mean simple to put into practice, i am prepared to be amazed, let's just put it that way.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Friday, June 08, 2018 - 12:57 am: Edit

Gorn are now experiencing the "Coalition can go anywhere they want, any time they want, and everything is just a matter of how many fights the Coalition want to start".

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, June 08, 2018 - 04:18 pm: Edit

Yeah, the Gorn are probably getting beat up this turn some, but they'll very much be able to cause a lot of damage in return.

Like, from where I'm standing, still, the Coalition is doing ok, but I'm pretty much at a deadlock with the Feds at this point--you have enough ships to pin any serious offensive I try, or at least make it really unappealing to try and kill things. I can probably keep you at a modest economy for a while, but I think I'm now settling into a "keep their economy down while killing anything I can kill without running into the giant Fed fleets waiting for me", and eventually, I'll run out of targets like that. And the Fed economy, while certainly lower than not, is still strong enough to keep a full production line going for the foreseeable future.

The Kzinti are in a similar stasis--although they clearly can get feisty if they are aggressive (see: last turn). The Hydrans have enough ships to be a serious issue, in theory (and most of that theory involves them having the FSP/supply TG with their main fleet...). And the Gorn have enough money now to start getting scary (i.e. build, like, 3xBC a turn...).

Still, yeah, I'm doing pretty well, and aren't, like, gonna lose any Coalition capitals any time soon. But I really think the scale is staring to tilt back.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, June 09, 2018 - 10:08 pm: Edit

CT17

Movement is done and combat is underway. There are 14 combat hexes; one in Hydran space (big coalition fleet vs 4 ships; an HN will explode). 5 in Kzinti space--2 vs stranded, outgunned fleets, one with even fleets at planet 1202; a pinning fight over SB 1704; the Coalition re-capturing undefended planet 1802.

On the Fed/KLI border, a big Coalition fleet is fighting FED BATS 2201 defended by 8 Feds and two solid Kzinti reserves, a giant B10 fleet over planet 2403 defended by about 24 Feds and 2PDU, and a big Coalition fleet vs about 30 Fed reserve ships.

On the Fed/ROM border, two fights. Both large Coalition fleets vs small defenses over BATS 3206 and devastated planet 3306.

In Gorn space, the ROMs are attacking undfended BATS 4808 and 5007, and are attacking SB 4806. The Gorn have about 50 ships (although most of them are BDD/DD sized and only 1 CV group); the Roms have about 90 ships with lota of fighters and maulers.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, June 10, 2018 - 08:59 am: Edit

CT17

Combat is underway.

In Hydran space, an HN died and the other three ships fled off map. No Hydrans on map currently.

In Kzinti space, the Lyrans killed 2 crippled FFs in one hex; crippled a bunch of ships and then failed to pursue in the second hex of stranded ships, leaving 3 or 4 more crippled FFs alive. The Coalition are consistently bad at pursuing things when they need to roll for it.

On the Fed/Klingon front, so far, the Klingons have killed BATS 2201, losing a D6M in return.

On the Fed/Rom front, the Feds lost BATS 3206 and control of devastated planet 3306.

In Gorn space, the Gorn have lost BATS 4808 and 5007 for minimal damage in return.

Combat continues.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Sunday, June 10, 2018 - 06:42 pm: Edit

The one advantage with Peter always rolling high is him rolling 6s when trying to pursue without any Fast ships.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 10:33 am: Edit

Heh. Fast ships for everyone!

CT17

Combat is mostly done, except for the fight over SB 4806, which is in the middle of round 4. The Romulans have so far lost 2 maulers and and their KRS, and have a handful of cripples. The SB has 3SID hits, the Gorn lost a BDE (and the fighters on the lone CV group), a BD, and have taken a bunch of cripples so far. Romulan compot is hovering around 112 with an EW edge; the Gorn hover around 150.

Combat continues.