Has the alliance empires purchased any command points at all during this game? I see from the various coalition econ posts that the coalition have purchased command points.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, November 08, 2018 - 04:09 pm: Edit

I think the Alliance have bought a few. The Coalition started with a bunch, and bought some early on, but haven't used that many, really.

They really only made one significant Capital assault vs the Hydrans where they used multiple command points; I think the devastating of planets in the Kzinti Capital happened without command points on both sides, I think.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Thursday, November 08, 2018 - 04:11 pm: Edit

Yeah I have a couple for each apart from Hydrans who used theirs.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 08:07 am: Edit

AT20

Econ is done!

The Feds generated 116 EPs, and had about 129 EPs to spend. They spent 7 EPs on repairs; built CVA, NAC, NCS, 27FF, and a SWAC. They also converted a DN+ to a DNH (DNH's are in play!). They end with about 5 bucks in treasury.

The Kzinti generated about 43 EPs (and then about 3.75 EPs at the Marquis SB in a partial grid), and have about 50 EPs to spend. The spent 4 EPs on repairs; built a CVH (heavy fighters in play, yo!), 3FFK, 8FF, and converted a second CVH at the Marquis SB. They end with fractional money in treasury, but also have a ComCon coming in this turn.

The Hydrans generate 35 EPs, and have about 45 EPs to spend. They build a CV, 2NEC, 9CU, and a free PGS.

The Gorn generate 65 EP, and have about 150 EP to spend due to their robust treasury. They spent 1 on repair, and build DNH, CLE, CMV, 3HD, 4BD, DDE; convert a second DNH (seems legal?), a second CMV at full cost (also seems legal? The OB I'm looking at says "max one carrier conversion and one substitution per year") and another CLE. Gorn end with about 60EPs saved.

On to raids!

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 10:39 am: Edit

Yikes!

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 11:54 am: Edit

I'm confused as to how you were able to produce 27 FFs. Did you overproduce a bunch? Normally, you can only do two down substitutions per turn of FF for any DN, CC, CA, NCL, or DW (702.3) (note, not marked with the unlimited symbol and not unlimited in 701).

Hydrans and Zin have same issue?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 12:03 pm: Edit

We are using the "You can always sub an FF" semi-common house rule (see: the rules we are using in the first post in this here thread).

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 12:07 pm: Edit

Richard wrote:
>>Yikes!>>

Yeah, tell me about it. Like, the Alliance are catching up on hulls pretty quickly. The Feds are, I'm fairly certain, ahead on hull count by a not insignificant margin in Fed space currently.

BTW--does that Gorn making two CMVs this turn seem legit? I think it is?

And it turns out that the Hydrans might have had too much money this turn; they might have missed out on the 75% exhaustion penalty. They might have to adjust a bit as a result.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Peter, ah, OK, house rule. Sorry I didn't check that first.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 12:57 pm: Edit

All good.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 02:22 pm: Edit

FF's generally have no limit on the number of down subs allowed. See the various 700 rule sections.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 02:23 pm: Edit

Thomas, I did check those rules. There is no explicit rule that gives you unlimited down-sub of FFs.

I always saw this limitation as a balance factor, as it makes it slightly harder for the Alliance to keep its pincount up.

[EDIT] Unless there's some update I'm not aware of.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 02:39 pm: Edit

There is an official limit; see my post on 31 May 2012 in F&E QUESTIONS: F&E Q&A: Archive through June 04, 2012.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 02:55 pm: Edit

We played an agreed rule where you can always sub an FF.

So for the purpose of our game there is no limit.

Which I think makes sense. Shipyards wouldnt just say "oh you cant afford a Dreadnaught? Fine, then we build nothing !"

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 02:59 pm: Edit

@Jason, sorry for turning your game into a rules discussion. This started when I asked Peter how it was so he could build so many FFs, and when he said "house rule", I said "ah, OK". And I left it at that. Until Thomas commented, and then I was confused again. Then Chuck jumped in and vindicated my original understanding of the *official* rule (not your house rule, which you are free to mess with obviously).

Thanks, Chuck!
Sorry Jason and Peter!

-T

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 03:30 pm: Edit

No problem. 2 questions is hardly derailing things.

So I need to check some revenues and some spendings. I think my spreadsheet skipped a 75% eco - sadly.

So Peter has pickets scattered all over the board. So he will be losing ships everywhere.

I also need to decide which major battles I want.

Kzinti space there are a few planets to choose from.

Hydran space I have to decide whether to hit hard or continue to harass or have a crack at something big.

Gorn need to get their lesser Capital back.

And the Feds will probably start fights all over the board - keeping an eye on the off map connection to the Capital and the Orions who need liberating (but means facing the B10 which is just horrible).

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Not that I want to point out my own errors, the Klingons at planet 2403 are probably in trouble--there is an FRD, a dozen cripples, and not a big enough fleet to dissuade the Feds from crushing them all...

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Re: Always sub an FF.

Yeah, we use that, as it makes sense to us, seems like a reasonably common house rule, and it helps the Alliance more than the Coalition, which they may or may not need in the grand scheme, but it is certainly helping their position in this game.

In terms of the rules set we are using, we are using 2K10, Combined Ops (mostly), Advanced Ops (mostly), Fighter Ops (mostly).

We are not using:

-Ship Captures: Mostly to avoid having to remember the extra dice rolls, but due to maulers meaning that the Coalition are marginally more likely to capture ships, not using this is slightly pro Alliance.

-Ground Attack Units (G) and SAFs: Likely hurts the Coalition a lot more than the Alliance. Rejected mostly for the extra phase it adds, but still, helps the Alliance probably.

-Monitors: Hurts the Alliance, but without G attacks, probably not that much. But still, con-Alliance.

-Prime Teams: Fiddly and probably a wash, but also helps Raids, and the Alliance do a lot more raids as far as I can tell. But still, probably a wash.

-SFGs+Penal Ships: 100% Coalition downgrade. Also, extra fiddly.

-LTF: A downgrade for the Feds, but I think they wouldn't even be in play yet.

-Full Police Ships: We use abstract police ships to defend against Raids if wanted, but don't have police ships on the map. Which is also likely a negative for the Alliance more than the Coalition.

So I think overall, the rules set we are using is modestly pro Alliance; the Alliance is certainly still in the game, and I think they are currently in significantly better shape than they look like they are from a map snapshot. And I suspect that they will be swinging back significantly in the near future, especially when the Tholians enter the game in 2 turns.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 04:52 pm: Edit

Seems like a close and fun game to me

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 10:17 pm: Edit

We both think the other is marginally ahead so it probably is quite close.

I just have to find a way to bust his supply lines open.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 06:23 pm: Edit

AT20

Raids have happened. 4 raids contested Coalition provinces, but for the second turn in a row, a Coalition POL managed to cripple a Kzinti BF (by rolling a 12). Someone needs a transfer.

Moves have started. The Alliance is 100% taking advantage of holes in Coalition reserve coverage (which are deep and rich), and going where the enemy ain't so far.

Hydran econ has been revised. It turned out that due to a spread sheet error, the Hydrans were not at 75% exhaustion for a few turns, and it all caught up to them this turn (we just made the money work with negatives), and so the Hydrans only could afford 7xCU this turn. Next turn promises to see a lot of converted CVs...

Move continue.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Hopefully !!

The Kzinti are basically attacking every single ship in Kzinti space and still have some leftovers to maybe go for the NZ planet too.

The Hydrans have sent a BIG fleet to 0416 but still have another big fleet to move.

The Gorn sent a large force to boot the Romulans currently loitering in 4403 but have a lot left to do.

At the moment the Feds are only fiddling around in the northern space. Still have around 200 or 250 ships to move, so that could take a while.

My goal is to once again break the record for the number of battles. I think low 30s is the the plan.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 06:12 pm: Edit

AT20

Heh. Yeah, it looks currently like the Hydrans are going to take back planet 0416 (the Hydrans sent a massive fleet there to attack and pin a reserve; the Coalition reacted enough ships there to make one good battle line) and they have enough ships that can reach SB 0411 that it can make the Lyrans nervous.

The Kzinti can do whatever they want due to a lack of reserves on that front (there are two Lyran reserves that can reach the edges of Kzinti space, but they probably will have better things to support on the Hydran and Fed fronts).

The Feds have a lot of options, but I imagine at least one of their main goals will be to mangle me at planet 2403 (where there is a poorly thought out FRD and then a dozen cripples sitting).

The Gorn can kill a convoy and recapture 4403, and then still have more advantaged fights.

Moves continue!

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 08:56 pm: Edit

uhmm what will combat bring. Will the dice start going the way of the alliance are keep as they have?

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 10:47 pm: Edit

I reckon Im about due !!

So far I have a statistical advantage for all my big fights. So I should be okay.

In theory.