Archive through April 06, 2019
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E INPUT:
F&E Reports from the Front:
Inactive Scenarios:
Third Time Lucky:
Archive through April 06, 2019
rule 549 replaces all other rules on aux's it doesn't change OOB but gives the stated ones on the published OOB's already as per the expansions paul. its just a catch all which you don't have its a single sided page.
Lyran option K is a further two BATS in Klingon territory.
Weird that 2 useable BATS are basically cheaper than 2 probably non-useable BATS! 
How about :-
Alliance -
Kzinti - A (SB 1502), C and specific A & H (39)
Hydrans - A (SB 718), C and specific A & I (25)
Federations H and specific B x 2 (13)
Gorns - Specific A & E (7)
Tholians - Nowt
Coaliton
Lyrans - C & Specific K (12)
Klingons - A (BATS 1407 and 2518) (10)
Romulans - A (SB 4112) & C and specific B (18)
Difference is 44.
The Bases are useful for everyone - but crucially defendable for the Kzinti and Hydrans.
Hydrans and Kzinti get modest boosts - and everyhone else (other than Tholians) get something.
I would be happy to play either side under Option 5 (with Raids).
We could trim the Alliance goodies if you wanted one of the lower option numbers.
I really don't want raids, my concession there was police ships. those locations for Klingon SB's is where I would put BATS if I were to build them.
I am happy for the Klingons to put 2 BATS in those two hexes if you prefer (they are BATS - not SB's).
On raids - I think it's crucial for the Alliance to avoid the bulk of Kzinti and Federation space become Long Term Captured (alas for the Hydrans, the bulk of Hydran space will still become Coalition controlled).
Raids are the one tool the smaller sized force have - as normal ships will get pinned out and police ships can only be placed in hexes which are in fully supply.
The Hydrans will easily get blocked into the Old Colonies - but I do accept the Kzinti and to some degree the Federation may be able to place Police ships to 'recapture some provinces' - but the Coalition can still control where they are placed and with modest resources can block supply into most of Kzinti space.
The Feds will lose their outer provinces and again, destroying bases and limiting supply to 6 hexes of Sol will reduce where Police ships can be placed.
(Remember if a hex has enemy forces in it, Police ships can't be placed there - so you put garrison forces in hexes which will cut supply or block a hex from having a Pol Ship in it).
If you think Raids are not needed - have the 10 extra option points and play the Alliance.
I think the Alliance will still find it tough, but it might slow the Coalition down enough to counter Long Term Capture.
(Noting the Coalition can raid too and the Romulans are the best at raids!)
I am happy to play either
we can certainly not have long term capture if it means we leave raids out. im happy to let long term capture be left by the wayside to achieve this. paul this is my 3rd online game 6th or 7th total game with the other 3-4 being 1 recent into turn 4 and the others approximately 30 years ago.
im a newbie.....
To be fair - I think this will be only my 10th game - only 1 of which got beyond turn 12!
So on rules and option points :-
C/O 311(Y),313(Y),443(Y),444(Y), 513(Y),516(Y),517 (Y),519 (Y), 531 (Y)
S/O . 451(Y), 452(Y), 453 (Y) ,541(Y), 542(Y)
A/O . everything but raids and admirals.
FO 437(Y), 438(Y), 440(Y), 515(Y),518(Y), 527(Y), 532(Y), 549(Y)
PO 322(Y),446 (Y), 450(Y).
448 – Note, now no as its an Extension on Long Term Capture
Option 5
So that's all the rules you would like marked Y plus Engineers and Shipyards - and no raids.
Option Points :
Alliance -
Kzinti - A (SB 1502), C and specific A & H (39)
Hydrans - A (SB 718), C and specific A & I (25)
Federations H and specific B x 2 (13)
Gorns - Specific A & E (7)
Tholians - Nowt
Coaliton
Lyrans - C & Specific K (12)
Klingons - A (BATS your preferred locations) and specific E x 6 (1 from each fleet except Eastern) (4)
Romulans - A (SB 4112) & C and specific B (18)
Difference is 50.
Happy to play either and so if your happy with the above, you can pick sides!
Note - From reading the rules, it appears Engineers can use the Self Generating PDU function (outside of the capital) and pay 3 Ep's rather than 8 Eps - which is pretty much all the Kzinti* and Hydran ones can do unless they do want to start building Minor Shipyards (which start from 170).
* - Not sure building a Colony in the Marquis area on turns 1-3, so generating 1 Ep a turn in income on turns 4,5 and 6 really counts as a benefit!!
'Option Points :
Alliance -
Kzinti - A (SB 1502), C and specific A & H (39)
Hydrans - A (SB 718), C and specific A & I (25)
Federations H and specific B x 2 (13)
Gorns - Specific A & E (7)
Tholians - Nowt
Coaliton
Lyrans - C & Specific K (12)
Klingons - A (BATS your preferred locations) and specific E x 6 (1 from each fleet except Eastern) (4)
Romulans - A (SB 4112) & C and specific B (18)
Difference is 50.'
………
options I want....
Coaliton
Lyrans - C & Specific K (12)
Klingons - Specific option I (10)
Romulans - Specific A (30)
that's a difference of 32 without leaving Kzinti option H off the list as a no-no.
so my counter alliance offer is...
Alliance -
Kzinti - A (SB 1502), A (SB 1103), A (SB 1503) Specific A, Ix2(8), Jx4(4) (47)
Hydrans - A (SB 718), C and specific A & I (25)
Federations Specific A, Bx2 (24)
Gorns - Specific A & E (7)
Tholians - Nowt.
Alliance now 103
103-52 = 51 Alliance advantage.
Jim - the Kzinti can barely defend the SB's they have - so giving them 2 extra SB's is meaningless - they will just die.
(1502 normally is defended by something, so it doesn't add to the hexes to defend )
Whats wrong with Option H - it helps boost the Kzinti and gives them abiit more Ep's (at a large cost in Option points, but 20 I think is fair value).
Romulan Option A - 36 Ships for free (which includes 8 heavy cruisers) - in effect all usable on turn 10 and so option A to me is one of the bargains in option points.
As a comparison - Fed Option A gives (IIRC rules not with me) 15 more NCL's and 15 more FF's, but they have to pay for them (so 120 Eps over 3 turns) for 16 option points?
Which seems better value? (Yes, Feds need more ships, but those 36 Romulan Ships add a huge amount to the Romulans).
I had tried to also avoid giving the 3 major empires too many goodies - as they already have enough to play with
Let me check the options when I get home.
Kzinti option H is 6 hexes away from the lyran capital a never can be conquered supply point, its like leaving a bleeding sore in your rear that would occupy the entire lyran navy to ensure the capital is not at risk, therefore the lyrans may as well not declare war in the 1st place.... the way you handle the kzinti navy is very very good and effective as you showed me 5 years ago, put those two together and I hope you can see my objection.
there are 14 option points difference in the ships and only 6 ships different in favour of the romulans I get that you have to pay for them that's a balance on the huge fed economy.
if we play and I over run you fast fair enough,but I cant see that happening anytime soon. I may be able to put you under pressure this game, but the advantage is yours not mine both in skill and the balance in favour of the alliance options. the rules are slightly in favour of the coalition 50 points seems a tad excessive to me but im willing to play it, so I can get playing. with the extra bases it will buy you time as I still have to attack them and too many targets leads to good opportunities to counter strike me like you have done previously to very good effect. this is going to be a tough enough fight for me as it is plus more bases will mean more cripples for me to repair. paul im paying you a compliment intentionally when I say these things you are a better player than me and have proven it 6 ships extra in the mix later in the game really.....
at this point I cant even recall the rules I put down so its good you did that above so I can remind myself lol.
Jim
Option H might be 6 hexes away...but IIRC it's a maximum of 6 ship and 36 Compot which can enter the Wyn cluster.
So yep, enough to worry a BATS or minor Planet - but a SB or Major Planet is out of it's league.
Thank you on the compliment… and hopefully that playing knowledge is accurate in telling you the extra bases are I agree, not worthless, but just mole hills to the Coalition steamroller.
(I would envisage them all going down on the same turn, by making the first attack on 1401 into a light raid rather than medium raid - reserves might save 1 SB...but that would just delay it dying).
after the drubbing you gave the Lyrans on either alliance turn one or two in our 1st game I wouldn't put anything past your skill at manoeuvre.
50 uncrippled factors including fighters/PF's and six ships that's enough as you say to threaten any BATS and/or FRD combos in a critical theatre.
Its also another supply point for a Hydran Expedition attempt which with that option is almost too easy to succeed with.
Well 36 Compot was a guess
Coalition would need to basically match what in in the Wyn cluster to keep them bottled up.
I doubt though the Hydrans can end in the Wyn cluster - as the general rule of 'you go there you die' still applies - - and so the specific rule allows 6 Kzinti ships in.
The fact the Hydrans and Kzinti (and Feds/Gorns) are allied doesn't amend the general rule.
The supply issue is covered off too - as a Exp/adopted Hydran ship is still a Hydran ship and so I don't believe the Wyn would supply a
Hydran ship (this is perhaps not explicitly stated in the rules, but feel that is the intention - so it indirectly helps the Expedition in that Kzinti forces may be able to cover the route while in supply - but the Hydrans would remain out of supply).
On option points - was going to suggest Romulan Specific G instead of A - but to be honest, I don't think it's worth 20 Option points in the basic game, but might be worth 20 with the FO and PO carriers?
4 Good Carriers and 2 Escort/Single Ship carriers a year (assuming they can afford it!)
Coaliton
Lyrans - C & Specific D & K (8)
Klingons - Specific option Ex6 (-6)
Romulans - Specific G (20)
Total 22
Alliance -
Kzinti - A (SB 1502), C, Specific A & Ix2 (27)
Hydrans - A (SB 718), C and specific A & I (25)
Federations - H and specific Bx2 (8)
Gorns - Specific A & E (7)
Tholians - Nowt.
Total 67
Difference is 45
Roms, Kzinti and Hydrans get a good boost - rest less so!
so let me get this straight , lyran have delayed capital ships and 2 bats in Klingon territory Klingons get 6 d6's put in the mothball which take three turn to come back into service and the roms get more cv's vs 2 starbases 2 tugs (lyrans get one) two mothballs (puny sized) another resv marker in the biggest empire in the game.... and more ships and the gorns get better ships and earlier carriers.....
ie a serious inbalance.....
im off to salute tomorrow paul maybe if you are going I might just see you there.
oh yeah and I forgot the stored command points,again in the biggest empire in the game...
Coaliton
Lyrans - C & Specific K (12)
Klingons - Specific option I (10)
Romulans - Specific A (30)
Alliance -
Kzinti - A (SB 1502) Specific A, Ix2(8), Jx4(4) (27)
Hydrans - A (SB 718), C and specific A & I (25)
Federations H specific A Bx2 (29)
Gorns - Specific A & E (7)
Tholians - Nothing.
88 vs 52 = 36 in alliance favour. or the Klingons can give up specific option I, and the federation lose option H for 41 difference.
First - have fun at Salute - haven't been in years (25 to be precise I think).
"so let me get this straight , lyran have delayed capital ships and 2 bats in Klingon territory Klingons get 6 d6's put in the mothball which take three turn to come back into service and the roms get more cv's vs 2 starbases 2 tugs (lyrans get one) two mothballs (puny sized) another resv marker in the biggest empire in the game.... and more ships and the gorns get better ships and earlier carriers..... "
Close - no Extra Reserve Marker for the Feds - but it's the ability to store Command Points.
Some of the changes are fairly minor (Lyrans swop a DN and BC for a CA and CL, Gorn in effect get the reverse)
idea is Feds will not build 2 NCLS to buy a CP a turn 5 and 6 - so the Feds will end up with 2 less ships
I'll go trough you proposal after breakfast.
So how about :-
Coaliton
Lyrans - C & Specific K (12)
Klingons - C (4)
Romulans - Specific A (30)
Alliance -
Kzinti - A (SB 1502) & C Specific A, Ix2 & Jx2(25)
Hydrans - A (SB 718) & C and specific A & I (25)
Federations H and specific A & Bx2 (29)
Gorns - Specific A & E (7)
Tholians - Nothing.
So 46 v 90
Difference 44
done, FINALLY
:P
173 messages to get to the point of starting a game (to be fair 20 or so were trying to sort out my rules and trying to get started but even so.)thank you,peanut gallery,for watching and waiting.
….and 50+ was due to a difference in printed rules
So who do you want to play as and do you have the relevant Cyberboard files?
(Lyrans set up first)