That's what I figured. Thanks, Richard!

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, April 25, 2019 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Why does it count as SC3?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, April 25, 2019 - 05:38 pm: Edit

Probably 'cause there is a rule somewhere (but I don't know where off hand). The Fed DDX is 100% an NCLX in everything but name (it has 4 photons and 9 some odd P1s and a 2/3 move cost and the same engines as the D5X, etc.), and in F+E has the same 10 compot as a D5X.

The Fed DDX is actually an NCLX, but with wacky color commentary/background.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Thursday, April 25, 2019 - 05:45 pm: Edit

Pretty sure the Hydrans made a PFT and converted a PFT. Or something like that.

Im sure I have 2 x PFT anyway.

Peter and I traded about 30 emails working out the Fed econ, and also me working out the tracking spreadsheet - but I think we got there in the end.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, April 25, 2019 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Peter,

It doesn't have the same engines as the D5X. It has 2x12-box engines while D5X has 2x15 box. Total power is 37+9 (generated + reserve) for D5X versus 32+9 for Fed DDX. But due to combination of lower movement cost and lower housekeeping, DDX does have more power available for weapons when flying at high speeds. Over all, I agree it is an "NCLX-in-all-but-name". And... yeah... if the Feds could put 6 DDX in a battle group and have it count as 5 ships for command purposes... it would be nasty.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, April 25, 2019 - 06:33 pm: Edit

Oh, huh, look at that! You are correct; it has 24 warp, but a 1/2 move (instead of 30 warp and 2/3 move). But in any case, it is essentially a CLX (and in F+E, it has the same stats as the full CWX D5X), so I guess they decided it was going to be limited as a SC3 ship for battlegroups. Which seems reasonable, really.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Thursday, April 25, 2019 - 06:35 pm: Edit

Im glad you guys started talking about the DDX. I had a look for an NCLX and didnt see one in the SIT.

So now I know I will be going with as many of the following as I can:
DNH(adm), [SCS+3xHDWE+FF], [3xDDX, 3xFFX], CX, 2xE2C, TG(SP)

Cheers !

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, April 25, 2019 - 06:38 pm: Edit

Yikes!

Yeah, this is a scary thing you can do eventually (y183).

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, April 25, 2019 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Rules research required, comment redacted.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, April 26, 2019 - 07:38 am: Edit

This just in! The Feds realized that they could spend XTP as regular EPs, and built an extra 10FFs (this is the first time we have used X tech anything, and we are both still shaking out the rules).

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, April 26, 2019 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Haven't ever got that far in a game....but surely you want to get as many X ships as soon as possible?

Converting XP to Ep's would seem to slow that down?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, April 26, 2019 - 03:40 pm: Edit

You don't need to convert XTP to EP; you can just spend XTP for anything you can spend EP on.

That being said, on the first turn of X ships, there are only so many X ships you can make--you can sub CX for CC/CAs (of which there are 2 on the Fed build schedule). You can convert one CA>CX for every SBX you have (which on turn X1 is exactly 1). So the most X ships you can generally make on turn X1 is, generally speaking, 2 or 3 builds (you might want to sub a CA into CX for a DN build, but in this instance, the Feds wanted that CVA build, so no sub CX there) and then a conversion.

You can also turn a SB into an SBX, which costs 18 XTP and 18 EP, but requires a TG in the hex already (not a thing that the Feds had this turn). And build an FRX (which costs 12 XTP? Something like that). But that isn't needed immediately, and there will be time (and XTP) in the future to build that.

So the Feds could build 2CX, convert a CX (which is about 30 XTP of 66 XTP), and then avoid missing 10 hull builds by spending 30 XTP to build 10FF. And then work on more X ships and SBX conversions next turn.

Later in the game, when you can build all the X ships you can afford ('cause there are DDX and FFX available, so you can build more X ships than you have money to build them with), sure, using XTP to build regular FFs? Probably not a great plan. But on the first couple turns of X production when you have vastly more XP than you have the ability to make X ships? I'd much rather build all the hulls I can than save the XTP for the future.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, April 26, 2019 - 04:08 pm: Edit

AT24

Moves are well underway! On all fronts, the Alliance is currently just moving to pin things, sending small groups to get province garrisons (i.e. 4 generally bigger Alliance ships hitting 2 or 4 smaller Coalition ships), and sending larger forces to pin larger forces. Nothing particularly interesting happened yet, *except* that the Hydrans have attacked occupied 0617 for the first time in many years. As of press time, they have about 135 SEQ facing about 160 SEQ of Coalition, so the Coalition (and 2 reserves) aren't pinned yet, although the Hydrans still have another 50+ SEQ to move.

It is unlikely that the Hydrans are going to go and fight all those star bases, PDUs, fighters, PFs, and giant fleet in the Hydran capital, but if they felt brave, there are numerous PDUs and a couple FRDs they could snipe. Ot, conversely, they could just be pinning everything there so they can retake a few planets and provinces.

So far, we got 25 battle hexes, and many, many other ships to move.

By Stefano Predieri (Preda) on Saturday, April 27, 2019 - 10:38 am: Edit

Federation normally can't build FRX, they get the LTFs instead but you banned that with your home rules. Can federation build one FRX as everyone else than?

Also Jason, if I may ask, why so may CVs with the Hydrans? It's a supremely inefficient ship behiond 1 or 2 exemplars to use the oversized group with, and only if you don't build the IC.
I'll build either something far less costly but as good as the CV at keeping the Hydran good escorts on the line, while giving you the EW you need desperately (PIV), or spend a little more and get a definitely better ship (LE). You can't convert directly CAs to LE, so an LE wasn't a possibility this turn, but in the last 6 production rounds you built directly CV at least 2 times...

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, April 27, 2019 - 11:04 am: Edit

If not using LTFs, prolly should use TWO FRX's for the Feds.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, April 27, 2019 - 01:07 pm: Edit

Stefano wrote:
>>Federation normally can't build FRX, they get the LTFs instead but you banned that with your home rules. Can federation build one FRX as everyone else than? >>

Huh. Well, as that is something that we never through about till just now, I imagine we'll just let the Feds build one FRX like everyone else.

>>Also Jason, if I may ask, why so may CVs with the Hydrans?>>

I'm not Jason, but I imagine it is 'cause it is a good way to use CA hulls that are otherwise being unused in his very carrier heavy strategy, and a good way to use up free fighter factors efficiently with his very CU heavy build strategy (i.e. the Hydrans build every hull they can all the time, which often means building a dozen CUs)--the Hydrans only ever have carrier groups (and stray CUs) on the line, and when they run out of ad-hoc CU escorts, they are replaced by other carrier groups. Like, he isn't *building* CVs, he is converting CA hulls into CVs.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Saturday, April 27, 2019 - 05:01 pm: Edit

Peter is correct. The Hydrans dont have many big ships because theres no money.

So they build a carrier and a ton of CU each turn.

They will be building PFTs as well now, to use up the 16 free PFs groups.

Peter has a LOT of resources near Hydran space which I quite like.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, April 27, 2019 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Heh, and now I officially don't have enough ships in Hydran space, as the Hydrans can pin everything in 0617, and still have enough ships to wreak havoc on held provinces and planets.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, April 27, 2019 - 07:57 pm: Edit

Normally the Feds have two FRX substitutes (the LTFs), if not using LTFs, I'd suggest perhaps having two FRX's.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, April 27, 2019 - 08:53 pm: Edit

That does not seem unreasonable.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 09:24 am: Edit

AT24

Moves keep happening!

In Hydran space, the dynamic has now officially changed. The Hydrans have completely pinned the Coalition at 0617, and now are going to liberate planets 0519 and 0718 and most provinces, which have been held for years. It is unlikely that they are going to try and retake 0617 (as it is very heavily fortified), but maybe?

In Kzinti space, the Kzinti are attacking held planets 1105, 1504, 1802, and 1506. They'll probably retake 1802, possibly retake 1504, the rest are Coalition advantage.

In Fed space, the Feds are attacking all planets held north of the xx11 line, and likely advantaged in all fights they are involved in, as well as lots and lots of province raiders.

In Gorn space, the Gorn are certainly retaking capital 4403, possibly taking planet 4705 (marginal Gorn advantage in that hex), and attacking numerous province raiders.

The Tholians haven't moved yet, the Kzinti have a significant number of ships left to move (but fewer than the Coalition have to react to them if they try and go to 1407). The Gorn and Hydrans seem mostly done moving. The Feds still have a bunch of ships left to move.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 06:50 pm: Edit

AT24

Now that I am looking at the worsening Hydran front:

-Ships in 0617 only have off map to restrgorade to. So the Hydrans can stay on map, but they'll be very easy to cut out of supply. Or they can retrograde off map.

-Ships attacking 0718 can't retrograde at all, unless they retreat off planet 0718 (they will only lose a fighter or two from combat this turn, so that probably won't be a significant issue).

But yeah, the Hydran front is a mess for the Coalition currently. On the upside, the Coalition have 2 SB, 6PDUs, and a whole bunch of PFs (and a significant fleet) over the Hydran homeworld.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 11:21 pm: Edit

0718 were going to retreat after combat then retrograde off the map.

If I get 0416 then I have my big fleet in 0516 which will be in supply during your turn. If you get them out of supply, then Im sure they will be back in supply by the end of my next turn.

Or I retrograde them all off the map after combat this turn.

Time will tell !

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, April 30, 2019 - 06:25 pm: Edit

AT24

Moves are finished and reserves have moved!

In Hydran space, the Hydrans have 160 SEQ facing 160 SEQ of Coalition forces over 0617; they are attacking 5 hexes of province raiders/light planetary occupation forces that they'll probably win, and a likely pinning fight over planet 0416. 7 total combat hexes, the Hydrans will likely win 5 of them, and they'll liberate planets 0519 and 0718. The Hydran front has become problematic for the Coalition.

In Kzinti space, the Kzinti have 6 combat hexes; two fights vs province raiders where they are advantaged; a fight at 1105 where the Lyrans probably have the edge, a fight at 1504 where the Kzinti have the edge, a fight at 1802 where the Kzinti will win, and a fight at 1506 where the Coalition have an edge.

In Fed space, the Fed are involved in 15 battle hexes; they'll probably recapture 5 planets, win in 6 fights where they are beating up province raiders.

In Gorn space, the Gorn are involved in 5 battle hexes; they'll certainly retake capital hex 4403, lose to a reserve showing up in 4908 (where they attacked some province raiders), and there is a fight over planet 4705 where the Gorn have an edge.

The Tholians put most of their fleet on planet 2518; the Lyrans reacted some ships there and sent a reserve there, but the Tholians have a significant advantage in ships here.

A total of 34 battle hexes. Should be bloody.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 04:26 pm: Edit

AT24

Combat is well underway on multiple fronts.

In Hydran space, to not a lot of surprise, the Hydrans offered an approach at 0617 and immediately retreated with no combat (the Coalition were squeamish in case they *did* want to come in and fight something). They also liberated a couple planets and provinces, and beat up a lot of province raiders, crippling, like, 8 various FFs and killing one. Combat is still happening over 0416, but the Lyrans have an edge here.

Lots of other fights all in process, including the first X ships in combat ever, where 3DX are on a crazy 122 point battle line vs the Feds over occupied planet 2306; on the first round of combat, BIR was low, both sides rolled low, and not much happened.

Combat rages on!