AT24

Combat is actually over this time! At 2610, the Feds outgunned, out fightered, and out EWed the Klingons. Both sides rolled a 6 for combat (although the Klingons had a -1 shift), the Klingons lost a D6S (from scout bonus box) and killed an NCL before abandoning planet 2610 to the Feds.

Revised AT24 ship deaths:
Ships Killed:
-LYR: DWE, 2FFE, 7FF, (FF)
-KLI: D6S, D5, 2F5E, 7E4
-ROM: FHF, K5D, BH, SKE, SK, 3SEE, 4SEH, K4

-ZIN: CL, FFK, 11FF
-HYD: CU
-FED: 2NCL, 12FF
-GRN: 3DD, (BD, DD)
-THA: NCL, PCE

35 ships on each side, 70 total dead for the turn. Gadzooks.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 05:16 pm: Edit

I have to say this was a brief but excellent final battle.

I love the SCS and I cant wait for Y181 !!

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 05:30 pm: Edit

GREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY!!!!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 05:59 pm: Edit

I mean, to be fair the huge death tolls are generally 1 or 2 ships per battle, over many, many battle hexes that Jason is very good at making happen.

This last turn, there were a lot of "My bigger force hits your 4 province raiders", that resulted in one dead sacrificial FF in the very lopsided ones, and a couple crippled FFs in the more even ones (pursuit didn't work real well for the Alliance this turn; I think they caught one pursuit fight and killed a single crippled FF as a result).

There were numerous "Romulans roll cloak dice and attempt to flee, and if they fail, an FF dies" hexes; the Romulans made 50% of their cloaked evasions this turn.

There were a significant number of "Two titanic fleets meet in space, each side directs a small escort or possibly a BG based CW, one side flees", where the fights were basically a forgone conclusion from the set up (i.e. twice as many Alliance hit half as many Coalition holding planets).

There were then a small number of battle hexes (maybe 3 or 4?) this turn that were protracted, multiple turn fights; generally large Alliance forces hitting larger Coalition forces over hard points that the Coalition didn't want to give up (planets 1105 and 1406 and 3509 on the Romulan side of things) where the Alliance just parked and burned fighters and generally smaller escorts (see: 11 dead Kzinti FFs and 12 dead Fed FFs) for fighters, PFs, small escorts, but generally larger fleets and more cripples (I think the Coalition took almost 30 cripples this turn; the Alliance took a small handful).

So lots of ships killed (i.e. 70), but not due to large swathes of ships being wiped out over capital defenses or anything. Just one small ship at a time getting whacked, and a few hexes where the Alliance were willing to fight for 5 or 6 rounds before they ran out of fighters and/or full CV groups.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 06:05 pm: Edit

And as previously noted, the tides are very much turning at this point.

The Coalition are steadily being pushed back from Fed space; Kzinti space is a deadlock with no potential for anything real interesting happening, until the Coalition decide to impale themselves on the Marquis SB (with heavy fighters and +1 damage dice all the time...). Hydran space has become a mess (for the Coalition), and probably requires a significant influx of ships to maintain their hold--the Hydrans basically liberated all of Hydran space other than 0617 this turn.

Gorn space is still potentially vulnerable to attacks on their capital hexes (well, one is already devastated and occasionally occupied; the other is being whittled away), but the Gorn are starting to outweigh the Romulans in the neighborhood.

50% exhaustion hits everyone but the Feds and Gorns (and Tholians!) on T26 (it is about to be CT25); I'm already starting to downgrade ship builds.

I mean, like, I suspect this one is going to go to the bitter, bitter end, and we'll count VPs. But the Alliance is clearly going to get some good revenge strikes before it is over.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 06:17 pm: Edit

I may or may not be in favour of masses of small fights where I trade FF for CW or proper FFE which slowly chips away at the ship count and make the static defences on all my Capitals seem overwhelming.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, May 13, 2019 - 08:38 pm: Edit

AT24

The turn is over!

In Hydran space, the Hydrans ended up pulling most of their ships off map, except for 4 ships on planet 0519 and 4 ships on planet 0718. They have 2 reserves off map, totaling about 16 ships.

In Kzinti space, the Kzinti have lots of ships in 1401 and SB 1704; a dozen+ ships each at planets 1502 and 1802; 2 reserves off map, totaling about 16 ships.

In Fed space, the Fed have most of their ships in and around the capital; a big fleet at planet 2505; small groups of ships all over the place; 3 reserves in 2908 and one reserve at BATS 2905, totaling about 35 ships.

In Gorn space, most of the Gorn fleet is in and around their capital hexes and then a significant fleet at planet 4001. They have 2 reserves in 4402 totaling about 26 ships.

The Tholians continue to be stacked in their capital, with a solid reserve (that probably won't move).

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - 04:28 pm: Edit

CT25

y180 FA T25

Lyran Econ:

Command Points: 2

Exploration: 236+13=249 (+9, 250 next)

Treasury: 43.075 (AT24)

On Map Provinces (32): 30 (.75)=22.5
Off Map Provinces(8): 26 (.75)=19.5
Captured Provinces: 3+5 (.75)=6
On Map Planets: (59): 59 (.75)=44.25
Off Map Planets: (16): 16 (.75)=12
Captured Planets: 5 (.75)=3.75

Total: 151.075

Construction T25:
-11 BCH
-8 CA
-5 CW (sub NCA)
-15 3CW
-6+1 HDWE
-6 DWS
-7.5 3FF (sub DW)
-2.5 FF
-3+2.5 CPX (5/6PF; 0617)
-0 6PF (free)

Construction Total: 67.5

Conversions:
-8 CA>DNP (0408, Free PF)
-3 DN>DNH, BC>BCH (1407)
-3 3BC>BCH (0411)
-4 FF>DWS (0617)
-4 CVL>CVH (0411)
-15 MB>BATS (2916)

Conversion Total: 22

Repairs:
-2 (F5S, F5 0411)
-2 (F5, FF 0617)

Repair Total: 4

Pay To Supply Ships:

Total Spent: 108.5

Treasury: 42.575

PF Replacement:

Field Repair:

FFF Left: 0

Salvage:

-----------------------------------------------

Klingon Econ:

Command Points: 5

Exploration: 155+5=160 (+7, 190 next)

Treasury EP: 18.345 (AT24)

On Map Provinces (52): 50 (.75)=37.5
Off Map Provinces(0): 14 (.75)=10.5
Captured Provinces: 8+18 (.75)=19.5
On Map Planets: (90): 90 (.75)=67.5
Captured Planets: 16 (.75)=12
XTP Conversion (20%, +10)=(39.4)

Total EP: 125.945

Treasury XTP: 24.08 (AT24)

XTP from Conversion: 39.4
XTP from Planets (40%): 42.4
XTP Bonus: 7

Total XTP: 112.88

Construction T25:
-13 DX (XTP, D7C)
-13 DX (XTP, D7)
-12 D6S
-5 D5 (sub D5W)
-10+3 D5P (+1PF)
-7 MD5
-30 6D5
-6+1 HDWE
-8 2F5W
-15 6E4 (sub F5)
-2.5 E4
-3+2.5 CPX (5/6PF; 2306)

Construction Total EP: 93
Construction Total XTP: 26

Conversions:
-36 SB>SBX (0617) (18XTP, 18EP)
-14 2D7>DX (1411) (XTP)
-2 C8>C10 (0617)
-4 D5V>D5VH (0617)

Conversion Total EP: 24
Conversion Total XTP: 32

Repairs:
-4.5 (D6M, F5L 1411)
-1.5 (AD5 1407)

Repair Total: 6 (EP)

Adopting Lyrans: (12 Lyrans adopted CT17):
-Currently 7 adopted; 5 spare lines.

Adoption Total:

Total EP Spent: 123
Total XTP Spent: 58

Treasury EP: 2.945
Treasury XTP: 54.88

FFF Left: 0

DBB:

PF Replacement:

Field Repair:

Remaining:

Salvage:

-----------------------------------------------
Romulan Econ:

Command Points: 1

Spare Parts: 2, -1=1

Exploration: 125+14=139 (+6, 160 next)

Treasury: 41.05 (AT24)

On Map Provinces (62): 60 (.75)=45
Off Map Provinces(0): 12 (.75)=9
Captured Provinces: 7+17 (.75)=18
On Map Planets: (51): 51 (.75)=38.25
Captured Planets: 8 (.75)=6

Total: 157.3

Construction T25:
-19 CNH
-8 FH
-8 SPC
-7 SPF
-15 3SP
-6+1 HDWE
-17.5 5SK
-7.5 3SEH
-2.5 SN (sub WE)
-2.5 SN
-6 Convoy (4705)

Construction Total: 100

Conversions:
-2 CN>CNH (4411)
-3 D6>KR (4613)
-3 D6>KR (1915)

Conversion Total: 8

Repairs:
-2 (2SK 3817)
-1.5 (SNB 4010)
-1.5 (SNB 4110)
-2 (FHF 4510)
-4.5 (SPF, 2SP 4309)

Repair Total: 11.5

Adopt Ships: .5 (D6S 3706, 1/12)

Total Spent: 120

FFF Left: 0

Treasury: 37.3

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - 04:31 pm: Edit

CT25

The Klingons are converting an SB>SBX over the Hydran homeworld; the Lyrans are converting a MB>BATS in 2915 (along with a Klingon and Romulan SB).

Klingons are just about out of regular EPs, but have a lot of XTPs saved up (and will inevitably end up using XTPs to cover EP costs).

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - 07:18 pm: Edit

Tempting me to hit the Hydran homeworld and kill a Tug !

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - 08:41 pm: Edit

If the Tug is killed, the SB conversion keeps happening (433.41 point A); this is one of those "dedicated staff officers" rules.

So if you attack the SB that is being converted to the SBX, the TG that is converting it needs to be on the line, but even if you kill the TG, the conversion keeps happening. You need to kill the SB to stop the conversion.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 - 11:02 pm: Edit

Oh wow. I had no idea. I had thought that any time you kill the tug, you wreck what was being done and everything is lost.

Now Im far less concerned about upgrading bases !

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 - 02:30 am: Edit

I think if you score a SIDs on a base under conversion, the conversion is delayed until that damage is first repaired.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 - 04:19 am: Edit

I dont think I want to take 200 damage (which Im pretty sure is what would happen) just to kill a Tug and delay a conversion for a turn.

Though Peter is free to try this with any of my Capitals.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 - 05:50 pm: Edit

CT25

Moves are underway!

In Hydran space, there are only two hexes of Hydrans on the map--planet 0519 and planet 0718. Both are being piled on by Coalition forces.

In Kzinti space, the Coalition so far seem to be avoiding space in and around the Capital, but have sent an exact pinning force (about 30 SEQ each) to planet 1802 and seem to be pouring ships onto SB 1704 (this may be the turn that I throw myself on that pike--the Kzinti have about 60SEQ at the SB, but nothing super spectacular).

In Gorn space, the Romulans have attacked the last Gorn BATS in 3801; the Gorn reacted a significant fleet on top of it. The Romulans can probably kill the BATS; the Gorn will be able to kill some Romulans in return. The Romulans have also sent a fleet from 4705 up around the Gorn Capital; waiting on response.

In Fed space, all that has been attacked so far is a group of 6 ships right next to planet 3705 (which is conveniently out of range of any possible reserve force). Other than province capturing, nothing else has moved in Fed space yet.

The Lyrans on the edge of Tholian space, holding down the Klingon border moved back to the SB in 2318 (i.e. again, no one is entering Tholian space this turn).

Moves continue!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, May 16, 2019 - 05:00 pm: Edit

CT25

Moves are done!

In Hydran space, there are two combats; both have large Coalition forces beating up 4 Hydrans on planets (0519, 0718). The Hydrans have two moderate off map reserves that can make it to 0519, but they'll probably still be out gunned there if they go.

In Kzinti space, there are 2 combats; a couple ships recapturing planet 1001, and then a billion Coalition on SB 1704 (where the Kzinti have about 60SEQ). The Kzinti have 2 modest reserves that can go to either.

In Fed space, there are 2 combats; significant piles of Romulans hitting some small groups of Feds on the outside of Fed reserve range. The one smallest Fed reserve can get to one of these fights, but probably not worth it.

In Gorn space, there are 2 combats--a significant Romulan fleet hitting the last remaining Gorn BATS in 3801 vs a lot of Gorn that reacted in, and an aborted clever assault (which wasn't actually that clever, as I didn't figure out it wasn't going to work until I was already committed to it...) which is now just a pointless pin fight outside of the Gorn shipyard. The Gorn have two significant reserves that can go to either fight.

There will probably be a protracted bloodbath over Kzinti SB 1704--the Kzinti have numerous CV groups, but not much in the way of support ships (2 total scouts, only about one BG worth of non FF BG ships, a couple cruisers and a DN+ADM), 2DF. The Coalition have lots and lots of capital ships, carriers, PFTs, PFs, scouts, an SCS, and 3DX (well, we'll see how long those last...).

The Coalition are studiously avoiding combat with the Feds this turn. They are consolidating their holding of what they have, but didn't attack anything in range of the scary Fed reserves (or Fed Fleets) at Earth. Which may or may not be a good idea, but as it is possible that there will be a lot of cripples from 1704, and I already have a big pile of cripples needing repair next turn, I figured I'd give the Feds a season off.

In Gorn space, the Romulans could have potentially gotten a big fleet on one side of Gorn Capital hex 4503 (either in the shipyard hex, or pinned in 4502) with a convoy on the other side of 4503, fought a round, then retreated onto capital hex 4503 to fight the SB there with limited defense. But given how many Gorn are in the area, it turned out that all he had to do was retreat onto 4503 himself (which would have been a fighting retreat, as I was going to put ships there, so it would have to be a fighting retreat unless he went to 4402), and he'd have had enough ships in the hex to keep me from retreating in there anyway (due to having more ships than me). So once I got pinned in 4502 (Step 1!), it became apparent that none of this was going to work. So I aborted the plan. At least we'll get to kill a BATS.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, May 17, 2019 - 10:13 pm: Edit

CT25

Reserves have moved and combat is starting.

The Hydrans sent both of their reserves to planet 0519. That fight is likely to be closer than I'd like (as I forgot the Hydrans had a couple PFTs to send in their reserves...).

The Kzinti sent both of their reserves to SB 1704.

The Gorn sent both of their reserves to the random open space fight.

The Feds didn't move their reserves (as there was only one that could go anywhere and it could only go to a very disadvantaged fight).

The fight over SB 1704 has started. The first round, the Kzinti were at 184/4 compot (and then lost a point of EW from X ships); the Coalition were at 160 (3DX on the line). Both sides are drone bombarding. The Coalition used a command point from each Klingons and Lyrans (just in case I have to mix up command).

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 08:06 am: Edit

CT25

Over 1704, 2 rounds in, the Alliance have rolled 4, 3 and the Coalition have rolled 3, 3 (i.e. virtually identically), but the Kzinti have a -1 EW shift (-2 from EW, +1 from fast drones). In the first round, the Coalition X-Ship mauled a DWE and then dropped another, like, 37 damage on the Kzinti (killing fighters and crippling a few ships); the Kzinti sank a D6S on the line (not a DX...), also killing fighters, PFs, and crippling a BT. The Klingons started with 4D6S in the hex, and have 3 on the line (well, a free scout and then 2 just there to get shot).

R2, the Klingons X-Ship mauled another DWE and dropped 41 damage on top of that on the Kzinti (who have 50 fighters on the line including the SB; they started with a total of 112 fighters in the hex).

In Hydran space, the Coalition quickly recaptured planet 0519, trading a D5 for a CU. I considered that the Hydrans might have wanted to fight for the planet, but they were compot disadvantaged, so they just ran immediately. The other Hydrans in 0718 probably give up a CU, then are forced to retreat onto a DNL, FF, 5CPX waiting for them in hex 0618, which will probably kill another CU.

In Gorn space, the Romulans snuck past an approach with cloaks over BATS 3801, immediately killed it with a FAL, losing the FAL, fighters, and taking a cripple in return.

In Fed space, the Fed just fed the Romulans a couple ships in lopsided fights.

Battles continue.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 09:14 am: Edit

CT25

3 rounds into 1704, we get a 1/6 die split, with the Kzinti hitting the 6. Granted, they still have a -1 shift (-2EW, +1 fast drones), but they get to drop about 50 damage with an auto kill on the Klingons if they want. So far, the Kzinti have killed 2D6S and a bunch of PFs/fighters and crippled some capital Lyran ships (and then get to do damage this round); the Klingons have killed 3DWEs (X-mauling), a lot of fighters, crippled a handful of ships, and the SB has hit a few SIDS.

At this point, the battle might be quick (if the Kzinti try and minimize cripples) or protracted (if they start crippling a bunch of stuff every round).

R3, before resolving damage, the Kzinti have 65 fighters left in the hex; the Coalition have a billion, but so far, they have only been soaking 7 per round (C8S and an HDWE on the line), losing PFs instead ($$$!!!).

So I finally paid attention to the "Production line conversion" rules, where you can spend Free Fighter Factors to get PFs instead (i.e. trade 1FFF for 4PFs during production), which will certainly help out with the PF costs. But then, that might be a terrible plan in the long run. We'll see. The Coalition are going to have serious money issues starting next turn (T26, i.e. 50% exhaustion).

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, May 20, 2019 - 07:09 am: Edit

FFF pay off over the course of the game. We have a max 10 turns left.

So at some point PFs may make more sense.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, May 20, 2019 - 07:30 am: Edit

Someone, and I don't remember who, did an analysis of the cost of fighters vs PFs. It was in a Captain's Log, and I don't remember which one off the top of my head.

As Jason points out there is a point where using FFFs to replace PFsis going to make sense. Your 12 FFF get you 48 replacement PFs. I would think that when you hit 50% exhaustion it would start making sense where you need compot but don't have the money to repair things and build new things.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, May 20, 2019 - 12:06 pm: Edit

Yeah, like at this point, I have tons and tons of fighters already (and already never use them all every turn; even close), but the Lyrans getting 24 free PFs a year (plus the 6PFs they get a turn already) by swapping in their FFF seems like it might be the way to go a lot of the time here. *Especially* as economies are about to bottom out.

The Klingons are certainly a little better off, what with XTP to bolster their bank account, but as they crank up X ship production, they'll have better things to spend money on than replacement PFs.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, May 20, 2019 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Note that when analyzing the tradeoff between free fighters used for new carriers or using the FFF for replacement PFs that the fighters for carries do require an economic cost, generally. It is necessary in most cases to spend about 2EP per SEQ of fighters to create a hull to carry them (above the cost of the standard hull), ie a CWV costs 7 vs 5 for a CW.

It is much more likely that those PFs will be where they are needed as the war goes on, as sometimes new carriers will not be able to reach important battle hexes (at least not on the turn of construction) whereas replacement PFs can be up on the front where most likely units lost them and need replenishment.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, May 20, 2019 - 04:22 pm: Edit

(Richard--those are very good points! Tac Note that puppy!)

CT25

Kzinti SB 1704 has vaporized over 5 rounds (and then an assumed 6th round vs the crippled SB that we didn't roll). The Kzinti chose to direct big/important ships instead of dropping lots of damage, killing some impressive hulls. The Klingons mostly X mauled small ships each round (to avoid losing damage on the deal) and wore out the Kzinti fighters quickly, also crippling a handfull of ships.

The Kzinti lost the SB, BC, 3DWE, FKE, and took 4MEC, 2CM, 2FF as cripples.

The Coalition lost DX, DNH, 3D6S, 12PF, took BT, BCH, CC, F5E as cripples.

Both sides had giant compots, with the Kzinti topping the Klingons every round, but had a significant EW defecit the whole fight--Klingons had 10-12 EW every round, and the X ships erased 1 point of Kzinti EW as well, where the Kzinti had 4EW most round (reduced to 3). With the fast drone bonus, they had a -1 shift every round. The Kzinti started out in the 180's, compot wise, the Klingons in the 160's and both sides generally did 50+ damage each round.

The Kzinti rolled well, with 4, 3, 6, 5, 6 (4.8 avg); the Coalition did fine, but not as well with 3, 3, 1, 6, 4 (3.4 avg). The Kzinti could have dropped damage with an auto kill twice, but chose to kill a D6S and a DX instead of, like, an F5E and an E4A to the auto kills. The Coalition also chose not to take their auto kill (which would have been an FF), as with X mauling, they only lost a couple points of damage anyway by picking off a good escort.

I was surprised that the Kzinti didn't instantly vaporize my 3 on the line DXs; I'm assuming he went with 28 damage to kill line D6Ss (that cost 12 to replace and provide less salvage, and more total damage to my line) instead of 40 damage for the DXs (that cost 13 to replace and provide more salvage) 'cause, well, there are the reasons :-)

One DX was whacked on the last round, so that was something. The X ships are kinda nuts--the mauling, the -1EW for the 3 of them, and them killing 15 fighters over the 5 rounds for nothing saved me from a lot. I'm a little concerned for when the Feds get a dozen or so of those...

A few more quick fights this turn to go!

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, May 20, 2019 - 06:16 pm: Edit

I figured you will be pumping out DX soon enough so that wont matter. Its tougher to replace the D6S and it really ensures you wont be able to take out my Capital at least for a while.

I then get to be more aggressive.