This is something which came up in other threads elsewhere on the BBS, but was a topic I felt worth considering in its own right. Apologies in advance if this is not the case, or if any or all of these thoughts have been pre-empted (one way or another) already.

At the time of writing, (509.1-O) and (509.5) cover the use of a Hydran Caravan tug (R9.20) with a fighter conveyor pallet (R9.22) to support the historical Hydran Expedition. In SFB, the Caravan has 32 cargo boxes, while the P-FC has 27 cargo boxes; in F&E, this combination has twenty "ship-turns" of supplies and 27 spare fighter factors. It would appear that, as the pallet cargo and fighter factor numbers match up, that the 20 "ship-turns" are all in the tug proper, which might equate to 1.6 cargo boxes per "ship-turn" - but I defer to the experts in this case.

Now, while the goal of the Expedition was to get a large number of ships a relatively short distance (albeit through hostile territory), I was thinking of how one might modify this rule in order to account for cases in which one wished to send a small number of ships, or perhaps even one of them, a much greater distance.


For example, I noted over in the "lost empires" thread that this sort of setup might apply to the "off-map" Paravians from the second "Paravian timeline" in Star Fleet Battles Module C6. Unlike the Hydrans, they need not necessarily take a fighter conveyor pod (or pods) with them, but the option would certainly be on the table once attack shuttles become a going concern for them.

So, if the 1.6 cargo box per "ship turn" ratio was in any way valid, and if the 1:1 ratio of Fi-Con cargo boxes to spare fighter factors ratio also held (and, again, I defer to the experts on that score), this might lead to the following:

Paravian Tug (R18.56): 10 Cargo boxes = 6.25 "ship-turns"
Paravian Raid Mothership (R18.10): 43 cargo boxes = 26.875 "ship-turns"
Paravian Battleship Raid Mothership (R18.5): 71 cargo boxes = 44.375 "ship-turns"
Paravian Cargo Pod (R18.57): 24 Cargo boxes = 15 "ship-turns"

In the above case, one could round down all fractions after combining the total for a transport+pod(s) combo; so a Tug with a single cargo pod would have 21 "ship-turns", rounding down from (6.25+15=) 21.25.

Also, the Paravians do not have a dedicated size-1 Fi-Con pod - they'd have to bring (or send) a Fi-Con frigate (R18.48) for that purpose - but their heavy Fi-Con pod (R18.65) is allowed to carry both size-1 and size-2 fighters.

Also, if one were to allow a survey ship to stockpile "ship-turns" strictly for its own use (while still allowing it to be supplied by a fleet transport as listed above), that might also lead to:

Paravian SR (R18.18): 6 cargo boxes = 3.75 "ship-turns" (rounded down to 3 if operating alone).

Apologies if the survey ship idea is already pre-empted by the expanded survey rules in Strategic Operations.

For comparison's sake, if the "off-map raider" Paravians were using a slightly adjusted version of Mapsheet B, they might need at least two "ship-turns" worth of supplies to get from the top-right corner of the map to the nearest Gorn province (prior to the Gorn annexation of the "north-east" region, at least), though the ISC would be much closer to such a point of entry. How useful this setup might be on "Mapsheet P", however, is another story.


While the above examples are Paravian-focused, I was also considering how one might make use of these rules for other long-range expeditions.

For example, one could set up a campaign in which a Seltorian Hive or Nest Ship has a stack of "ship-turns" stored up in their cavernous cargo bays, which they might need to draw from prior to (or in the absence of) a suitable colony planet to establish as a home base.

Similarly, when the time comes to take a closer look at Operation Unity (should Andro War extend that far), there might be a need to stockpile numerous "ship-turns" of supplies aboard the fleet transports used to establish the chain of bases leading over to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud.

Also, in situations where one may wish to send a survey ship, such as a Federation GSC or GSX, into the unknown, one could use its cargo bays to load up on enough "ship-turns" required to carry out such a mission far from its home base. (With 10 cargo boxes apiece, either ship class would have 6.25 "ship-turns", rounded down to 6 if operating alone; so perhaps a couple of years short of a "five-year mission".)


In short, would there be any cause to consider the "ship-turn" concept for more than just the Hydran Expedition, or might some other mechanic exist (or could be made to exist) which would cover such eventualities more aptly?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, June 05, 2019 - 10:50 am: Edit

TL;DR

Could you post a *short* synopsis of that?

By Douglas Lampert (Dlampert) on Wednesday, June 05, 2019 - 10:57 am: Edit

The question is, can we calculate how many "ship turns" of supplies a Paravian ship with cargo boxes can carry when operating as a raid mother ship outside of normal supply.

This is in an analogy to the Hydran expeditionary supply tug.

He's asking if .625 ship turns of supplies per cargo box is a reasonable value and could be generalized to other uses.

Edited to add: My own opinion is that that's too generous. I'd go with 0.5 ship turns of supplies per cargo box and that the first cargo box per ship doesn't count (a ship with cargo capacity is likely to be designed to have some routine ship's stores in part of that capacity). The Hydrans get a special deal because they spent some time and effort preping for this.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, June 05, 2019 - 12:20 pm: Edit

There are two uses for "ship-turns" I wanted to raise.

First, as Douglas Lampert mentioned above, I was asking if other "mother ships", such as Paravian Tugs and Raid Motherships or Seltorian Hive Ships, could (or should) be able to stack "ship-turns" of supplies for extended-range missions, akin to the Hydran use of the expeditionary supply tug.

Second, I was wondering if a given empire could use the cargo boxes on its survey ships, such as the Federation GSC or GSX, to store up "ship-turns" for use on solo long-range missions - in this case, any "ship-turns" stored would be for the ship's own use only.


With a 2:1 ratio of cargo boxes to "ship-turns", the base hull of the Raid Mothership would go down to 21.5 "ship-turns", rounding down to 21; each cargo pod would then fit 12 "ship-turns" worth. Which is still quite useful.

While a GSC would fit five "ship-turns", so half of a "five-year mission".

It might be that dropping the fractions would give the effect of setting some of the cargo boxes aside for other ship stores, at least for those ships intended to act as supply nodes for ships other than themselves.


Also, there might be a need to account for how many "ship-turns" of supplies versus how many EPs a given unit may carry.

To continue with the DNR(RMS) as an example, the current Paravian SIT allows it to carry up to 16 EPs. Presumably some, or all, of those would have to go in order to make room for any "ship-turns" to be taken.

Or to think of it in another way, a Paravian raiding campaign might involve gradually replacing one with the other, based on the amount of loot to be extracted from their targets and hauled back to Paravia (for the "on-map empire" Paravians) or to Wingatha (for the "off-map raider" Paravians).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, June 05, 2019 - 02:05 pm: Edit

The Hydran thing was prepared years in advance, which is why it's been unique.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Way late, but questions remain nonetheless...

If a player wanted to prepare a expedition similar to the unique Hydran thing, could they?

Say the Federation player wanted to mount an operation to open direct contact with the Hydrans on or about Year 180?

What preparations would be required?

A new Fed TT class tug? (Able to carry 20 ship turns of supplies?)

A carrier? A size class 2 command hull? How many cruisers? destroyers? frigates? A scout?

Any specialist class ships? DB squadron?

How many EP’s need to be stockpiled? 20? 50?

Could either the Klingons or the Romulans mount an expedition to reach the other empire after the Federation recaptures the invaded hexes during the mid war period?