...I can say that I don't like meta-gaming where one KNOWS for certain the game is ending after THEIR turn, so they then throw caution to the wind and throw their fleet away to gain snapshot victory points. It an artificial win according the the scenario RULES but not how it might settled if one had to plan one future impacts on their empire.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Monday, May 27, 2019 - 07:59 am: Edit

All I know this one is going down to the wire and no clear victor at the moment. Has been fun following it along. The write ups have been good. To the point that some one like me who does not play F&E can understand and follow the action

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, May 27, 2019 - 08:02 am: Edit

Yeah, the sudden death, no mystery game end is certainly questionable, but I'd like to think that the game kind of takes this into account--like, the Alliance can, on their last turn, just go nuts leaving FFs everywhere to recapture space, and fight all over the place to get VPs, and suffer no consequences for leaving ships in weird places. But, well, the game knows that the Alliance move last, so I'd like to think that this is all part of the plan.

And yeah, there are all sorts of ways to add mystery to the end of the game (I like Jason's "Roll a die at the end of the turn, subtract 1 every new turn, game ends on a 1" idea, but still, if all goes wacky, there will be a turn when you *know* it is the last turn anyway some of the time), but, as noted, that's for next game :-)

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, May 27, 2019 - 09:34 am: Edit

I think the Alliance has so many FF they could send them out all over the place now if they wanted.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, May 27, 2019 - 11:32 am: Edit

...including territory that is out of supply...

Are you guys using advanced deficit spending?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, May 27, 2019 - 01:14 pm: Edit

No ADS; we are just using rules from F+E2K10, CO, FO, AO.

Like, there certainly could be (and probably should be) an update to the end game conditions for the Grand Campaign (similar to what was done with the updated 4PW, i.e. ships out of supply at the end of the game count as destroyed, etc.). But as I suspect that so few games actually make it to the "Let's count victory points at the end of AT34!", that folks haven't put much actual thought into it :-)

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, May 27, 2019 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Peter: Yes, I think that since most games do not go "full term" we don't really have reports of such problems. It might be good to address this issue much in the same way we did with the 4PW scenario. It might also be worthwhile to have a "natural" die roll of "x" always mean that the war continues one more turn -- that way a player will be less likely to game the system.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, May 27, 2019 - 03:18 pm: Edit

(Moving this to General Discussion :-)

By Nick Blank (Nickgb) on Monday, May 27, 2019 - 08:40 pm: Edit

On the end turn 31 or whenever you want this to start, a die roll of 1 ends the game. Next turn a roll of 1 to 2, next turn a roll of 1 to 3, and so on. But once you reach a roll of 1 to 5 ending the game that is as far as it goes. A die roll of 6 always means another game turn.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, May 27, 2019 - 08:44 pm: Edit

(Moved to general discussion...)

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, May 28, 2019 - 08:26 pm: Edit

AT25

Moves are done, reserves have moved in, and combat is beginning!

In Hydran space, there are 3 battle hexes; a big fight over planet 0416 where the Hydrans are advantaged, even though a Klingon Reserve (with some X ships) showed up. There are some Hydrans beating up some province raiders, and then a Lyran reserve saving some province raiders somewhere else.

In Kzinti space, there are 6 battle hexes; at planet 1105, there are about exactly the same number of Kzinti and Lyrans (50+ each) where a reserve showed up, allowing a couple other reserve ships to go save some province raiders; there are two pin fights outside of planet 1506 that are even; there are three fights against province raiders, one of which is being saved by a reserve.

On the Fed/Klingon front, there are 8 battle hexes. 4 fights against Klingon held planets (2106, 2306, 2811, 2812). 2306 and 2811 are Fed advantage; 2106 is likely being saved by a reserve; 2812 is big on both sides (100 some odd SEQ on each side), but maybe marginally advantage Klingon. 4 other fights are beating up province raiders; a Klingon reserve is saving one of those hexes.

On the Fed/Romulan front, 4 battle hexes. 3 are attacking province raiders; of those, one is being saved by a Romulan reserve. A big fight over Romulan held planet 3509, which looks roughly even.

On the Gorn front, 5 battle hexes. 4 of them are beating up province raiders. One of them is a big fight over planet 4705, where the Gorn out weigh the Romulans significantly, ship number wise, although a reserve showed up to help.

On the Tholian front, the Tholians are attacking BATS 2519 with a lot of ships. 2 dozen Lyrans are defending it. The Tholians can certainly win the hex and kill the BATS if they wanna press it.

A total of 27 battle hexes this turn.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - 05:29 pm: Edit

I feel like I should have aimed for more battles.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - 08:33 pm: Edit

Heh. I think you got all you were gonna get this turn...

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, May 29, 2019 - 08:40 pm: Edit

AT25

Combat is underway!

In Hydran space, the Hydrans lost a CU to a reserve, crippled a few Coalition ships (and will possibly pursue), and are fighting over 0416 (and likely chasing away the Coalition).

In Kzinti space, they lost an FF to a reserve, beat up crippled a few Coaliton ships (and will possibly pursue), and are fighting over 1105 (which is a toss up), and in two pin fights adjacent to 1506 (where the Coalition will likely fight a round a run).

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, June 01, 2019 - 08:10 am: Edit

AT25

Combat continues to rage.

Over planet 0416, we are 3 rounds in, the Hydrans are deciding what to do now that their PFT groups have lost small escorts. The Coalition are running out of carrier groups, but still have some fighters. The Hydrans have burned up 50 some odd fighters, and still have 100 left. The Hydrans can certainly take the planet if they want to push.

At planet 1105, 4 rounds in, the Kzinti lost an MSC and some escorts; the Lyrans are taking cripples and running out of fighters. It's a toss up.

Planet 2106, the Klingons are probably chasing the Kzinti away with some X ships and a bigger fleet (a reserve showed up).

Planet 2306, the Feds are probably taking this planet back, as they have 9 points of EW on the line.

At BATS 2519, in the approach, the Tholians used webcasters to drop Lyran compot from, like, 120 to like 88, but rolled a 1, so can't advance this round, losing an NCL for their trouble.

Numerous province raiders have been killed and crippled as well.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, June 01, 2019 - 09:58 pm: Edit

AT25

The Hydrans are still fighting over planet 0416; I suspect the Lyrans will retreat soon (as, well, I'm the Lyrans...); the Feds took back planet 2306 after a single round of combat; the Klingons were out EWed and out fightered and trying to keep the planet was futile. The Lyrans kept a hold of planet 1105 after 4 rounds of combat. At Klingon BATS 2519, Lyran reinforcements kept the Tholians at bay in 2 rounds of approach, and the Tholians decided to give up and come back later, after rolling two 1's in a row.

Combat continues.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, June 04, 2019 - 02:18 pm: Edit

AT25

The Romulans held on to planet 3509 over 4 or 5 rounds of combat, the Romans losing bigger ships than the Feds (and took more cripples on top); at planet 4705, the Romulans repulsed the Gorn after 3 rounds of combat when they scored big on R2, allowing them to drop 41 damage on the Gorn line, using up a ton of fighters and crippling numerous ships. After one more round, the Gorn fled, the Romulans pursued and killed 3 cripples in pursuit, effectively losing 3 ships in return (the Romulans dropped damage for 2 rounds while losing escorts, they lost an FHF to the DNT in the pursuit), but coming out a little ahead due to the loss of salvage income.

Just a couple more fights to go; a big bunch of ships over 2811 and a bigger bunch of ships over planet 2812. Maybe one or two other tiny ones.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, June 04, 2019 - 05:06 pm: Edit

AT25

As of press time, the Coalition have lost 23 ships, a few PF flotillas, and taken numerous cripples.

The Alliance have lost 27 ships, taken a few cripples, but not as many as the Coalition. The Coalition have also lost more larger hulls (6 SC3 vs 4 SC3).

Dice so far have marginally advantaged the Alliance, with 3.67 over 28 rolls vs 3.39 for the Coalition. That being said, the Alliance have certainly suffered more from bad rolls at inopportune times; the Tholians rolled 1, 1 in their two rounds of approach over BATS 2519 before giving up; the Romulan vs Gorn pursuit fight saw the Gorn roll a 1 vs the Romulan's 4 (although it didn't really matter that much for what the Gorn could DNT).

3 fights left to go, two are potentially big, one is likely just a Fed FF exploding in front of a reserve fleet that showed up to save some province raiders.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, June 06, 2019 - 06:39 pm: Edit

AT25

Combat is done! At planet 2811, the Klingons fought a round and immediately fled; at 2812, we fought 4 rounds before the Feds ran out of fighters and fled, the Klingon pursued and traded a D6M for 2ncl and an ff.

Overall, in Hydran space, the Hydrans took back planet 0416 with the bulk of their fleet, and have open supply to off map.

In Kzinti space, the Kzinti took back most of their provinces, were pushed back from planet 1105.

On the Fed/Klingon front, the Feds took back planets 2306, 2811, and a bunch of provinces.

On the Fed/Romulan front, the Feds took back numerous provinces, but were repulsed from planet 3509.

On the Tholian front, the Tholians attacked Klingon BATS 2519, but were chased away from the approach.

In Gorn space, the Gorn reclaimed a lot of space and helped out the Feds, but didn't take back any planets.

Ships killed:
-LYR: CW, 7FF (18PF)
-KLI: D6S, D6M, 3MD5, D5, 3E4, (6PF)
-ROM: FHF, 3SPF, 2SKE, 3SEE, SEH, SN

28 Coalition hulls.

-ZIN: MSC, 2FFK, 7FF
-HYD: CR, 2CU, AH
-FED: NCL, FFE, 10FF, (2NCL, FF)
-GRN: 2DD, (CLE, HD, DD)
-THA: NCL, PCE

36 Alliance hulls.

The Alliance rolled an average of 3.48 for the turn; the Coalition rolled an average of 3.15.

Retrogrades, etc. to follow!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 07:33 am: Edit

AT25

The turn is over!

In Hydran space, the Hydrans have a giant fleet sitting on planet 0416, 8 ships near the edge of the off map, and a bunch of ships off map, including 2 full (mostly FF) reserves.

The Kzinti have a modest fleet at each of planets 1504 and 1802, 4 ship groups on planets 1001 and 1202. Most of their fleet is at the capital; they have cripples and 2 moderate reserves off map.

The Feds have a fleet of about 75 ships at planet 2306, about 60 ships at planet 2811, numerous small groups of ships at various planets around the map, and most of their ships in and around the capital. They have 4 frigate heavy reserves in the capital (although 3 of them also have CXs in them as well).

The Gorn have most of their ships in and around the Shipyard hex; small groups of ships at 4 devastated planets. They have 2 modest reserves at the shipyard.

The Tholians all pulled back to their Capital, and have a modest reserve there as well.

On to y181!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 08:49 am: Edit

CT26

y181 SP T26

Lyran Econ:

Command Points: 1 (CT26)

Exploration: 249+5=254 (+10, 290 next)

Treasury: 28.2

On Map Provinces (32): 29 (.5)=14.5
Off Map Provinces(8): 28 (.5)=14
Captured Provinces: 3+5 (.5)=4
On Map Planets: (59): 59 (.5)=29.5
Off Map Planets: (16): 16 (.5)=8
Captured Planets: 4 (.5)=2

Total: 100.2

Construction T26:
-18 DNH
-2.5 FF (sub CA)
-7 STJ (sub NCA)
-15 3CW
-6+1 HDWE
-10 4FF (sub DW)
-2.5 FF
-0 6PF (free 2916)
-0 24PF (4 flotilla; 6FFF)

Construction Total: 62

Conversions:
-2 2BC>BCH (1407)
-4 CVL>CVH (1105)

Conversion Total: 6

Repairs:
-2 (2DD 0404)
-5.5 (CW, 4FF 0411)
-7.5 (3CW, 2DW 0608)
-1.5 (DW 0708)
-1.5 (DW 0718)
-2 (F5, E4 1216)
-8 (BCH, TGC, CC, F5E 1407)

Repair Total: 28

Pay To Supply Ships:

Total Spent: 96

Treasury: 4.2

PF Replacement:

Field Repair:

FFF Left: 0

Salvage:

-----------------------------------------------

Klingon Econ:

Command Points: 4 (CT26)

Exploration: 160+4=164 (+7, 190 next)

Treasury EP: 33.82

On Map Provinces (52): 49 (.5)=24.5
Off Map Provinces(0): 14 (.5)=7
Captured Provinces: 8+18 (.5)=13
On Map Planets: (90): 90 (.5)=45
Captured Planets: 13 (.5)=6.5
XTP Conversion (20%, +10)=(29.2)

Total EP: 100.62

Treasury XTP: 58.78 (AT25)

XTP from Conversion: 29.2
XTP from Planets (40%): 41.2
XTP Bonus: 8

Total XTP: 137.18

Construction T26:
-39 3DX (XTP, C8, D7)
-54 6FX (XTP, F5)
-8 DWV (6FFF)
-7 MD5
-35 7D5
-6+1 HDWE
-8 2F5W
-2.5 E4
-0 12PF (2 flotilla, 3FFF)

Construction Total EP: 67.5
Construction Total XTP: 93

Conversions:
-14 2D7>DX (1411) (XTP)
-7 D7>DX (0617) (XTP)
-4 D6>D6S (1411)
-0 D5V>DVH (2206, 2FFF)

Conversion Total EP: 4
Conversion Total XTP: 21

Repairs:
-10.5 (D5W, D6, 3D5, F5E, E4 1411)
-1.5 (DW 0908)
-1.5 (CW 1209)
-2 (SC, FF 1811)
-2 (D6 1813)
-1.5 (CW 2519)

Repair Total: 19 (EP)

Adopting Lyrans: (12 Lyrans adopted CT17):
-Currently 7 adopted; 5 spare lines.

Adoption Total:

Total EP Spent: 90.5
Total XTP Spent: 114

Treasury EP: 10.12
Treasury XTP: 23.18

FFF Left: 1

DBB:

PF Replacement:

Field Repair:

Remaining:

Salvage:

-----------------------------------------------
Romulan Econ:

Command Points: 1

Spare Parts: 2

Exploration: 139+11=150 (+6, 160 next)

Treasury: 50.05

On Map Provinces (62): 60 (.5)=30
Off Map Provinces(0): 12 (.5)=6
Captured Provinces: 6.6+15 (.5)=10.8
On Map Planets: (51): 51 (.5)=25.5
Captured Planets: 8 (.5)=4

Total: 126.35

Construction T26:
-10 NH
-10 FHF
-8 SPC
-7 SPF
-15 3SP
-6+1 HDWE
-12.5 5SEH (sub SK)
-7.5 3SEH
-2.5 SN (sub WE)
-2.5 SN

Construction Total: 82

Conversions:
-4 KR>KRS (4613)
-3 SP>SPC (3711)
-1 SPB>SPV (4705)

Conversion Total: 8

Repairs:
-3.5 (SP, 2SK 3711)

Repair Total: 3.5

Adopt Ships: (1/12)

Total Spent: 93.5

FFF Left: 12

Treasury: 32.85

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 09:00 am: Edit

CT26

It is y181! So at the start of this turn, the Coalition hold the least amount of Alliance real estate than they have in years and years. The Hydrans are still mostly marginalized, but they currently have 2 provinces and planet 0416. The Kzinti control all but 3 of their provinces and all but 1 of their original planets. The Feds currently control well over half their provinces, and all but 6 of their planets (they control 11 non capital planets, 3 of which have recovered from devastation); the Gorn control most of their space and all but 1 of their original planets. Tholian space continues to be untouched. Granted, the Alliance will likely lose a lot of this space for the start of their turn, but they'll lose fewer provinces than usual, and the Feds are clearly pushing forward (they currently have 150 some odd ships in range of the Klingon border and a few Klingon targets, such as planet 1910 and the SB nexus in 2916)

The Coalition hit 50% exhaustion this turn. Combined with significant repair bills racking up, the Lyrans and Romulans have started downshifting builds to FFs, and aren't building anything particularly extravagant. The Klingons and Lyrans converted Free Fighter Factors into PF flotillas, to save money. The Klingons did build/convert a full dozen X ships this turn (6DX, 6FX, now that FX are available), but that is an unsustainable production rate.

On to moves!

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 09:26 am: Edit

The Coalition has lost some ground, but presumably the Tholians contributed to that. It will be interesting to see whether or not the pending Tholian exit will allow them to regain any ground.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 10:29 am: Edit

Yeah, the Tholians are sucking up, like, 80 Coalition ships around Tholian space (mostly, 'cause I was dumb on T8 or so and planted some Coalition starbases in 2916), but still, that is 80 some odd ships that pulled back to the Tholian border on CT21. Which at this point, is mostly small potatoes compared to the Fed fleet size, but still, it did put a significant lull into any significant chance of ever hitting Earth, which has never happened, and at this point, never will. When the Tholians retreat in a couple turns, that'll free up those 80 ships, but I suspect that by then, the Feds will already be pushing forward significantly.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 12:59 pm: Edit

Now is the time to ask the Federation to surrender. Take a couple of provinces and end the war hehehehe