You can retro to a starbase whether it's attached to the main grid or not. The starbase itself is always in supply, if I recall correctly.

The Kzinti ships, if stacked on a starbase, whether it is attached to a main grid or not, will also be in supply as long as they are stacked there.

If you know all this, my apologies for belaboring the obvious.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, June 05, 2019 - 02:32 am: Edit

Sorry Richard - that would be a an answer to a different question

The issue is replacement fighters - William is 90% happy that it occurs after retrograding has occurred - as by retrograding the way he wants to, it puts 902 and 1304 into partial supply grids.

So if I attack them, they will be fully in supply, but the carriers will be down several fighters until the start of Alliance turn 5 (when he can buy replacements for them, if they remain cut off).

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Wednesday, June 05, 2019 - 08:22 am: Edit

Paul, who pointed out the situation in the first place, has also allowed me to adjust my retroes. The Duke is now in supply, and in the adjusted version, only "full" carriers retroed to the Count.

As Paul says, I'm still only 90% sure his interpretation is correct. But I also want the game to move forward.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Wednesday, June 05, 2019 - 06:00 pm: Edit

Replacement fighters are tied to the main grid (which is why partial grids must pay for them) so anything connected to the main grid can get replacement fighters, otherwise they have to wait ...

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Wednesday, June 05, 2019 - 07:10 pm: Edit

That we all agree on. But connected as of when? In particular, these carriers were connected at the start of retro, but not after retroing.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Thursday, June 06, 2019 - 07:56 am: Edit

I only have an abbreviated version of the SOP available at the moment, but there appears to be a valid argument for refilling attrition units on ships that become cut off DURING the process of retrograde movement. Specifically, there is not any supply check between steps 6A and 7A, with fighters being refilled at step 6E. In general, supply status for any action is based upon status at the last point in the SOP at which supply was checked, so the newly isolated ships are still in supply at that moment for rules evaluation purposes.

Rules-lawyery? Yes. But it is an argument in favor of a final reload of the bays before the carriers are cut off.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Thursday, June 06, 2019 - 08:09 am: Edit

Sounds like I should treat it as "not yet cleared up" for purposes of knowing what the rule actually is. That said, I'm happy with my adjusted retroes, and the game can move forward.

In other news, the Patriarch has received an anonymous subspace transmission showing that the 20EP the Klingons received from the Lyrans last turn have nearly all been spent.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, June 06, 2019 - 10:57 am: Edit

If you are in supply during a 'supply check', you are in supply until the next 'supply check' in the SOP. Otherwise you wouldn't have specific supply checks, and just check supply at every given moment that things on the board change (which isn't how it is done) unless explicitly stated otherrwise.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, June 06, 2019 - 01:07 pm: Edit

The SOP has three relevant points

6A - Evaluate Supply for Retrograde
6C1 - Retrograde eligible ships
6E - Replace Fighters if in supply

So in effect there is two supply point checks - one for ships and one for replacement fighters.

On the 20 Ep's - the Klingons claim they never received it (darn space pirates etc) - can the Lyrans send another 20 Ep's as the Klingons never have enough money

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Thursday, June 06, 2019 - 07:27 pm: Edit

Since it seems the gallery thinks the fighters might arrive after all, I've taken it to Q&A. But let's don't wait on it. My revised retros are fine. Even if Paul wants to kill the Count, which actually looks like it could be the case, it's cool.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Friday, June 07, 2019 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Turn C5 op movement is under way. So far, we have pinning battles at the Duke's SB (which has a lot of ships on it -- Kzinti have 34 pincount with the SB), the Hydran 1st fleet SB, and Hydraxaport (the major planet adjacent to Hydrax). The last of these is not quite pinned yet. Not clear where the main blows will land.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, June 08, 2019 - 09:04 am: Edit

Slightly interesting builds for the Coalition this turn.

Lyrans build BC, TGC, 3 x CW, 3 x DW, 3 x FF - plus a FRD and 3 PDU's.

39.5 Ep's spent on repairs and a CL converted to a BC.

Klingons build D7C, D7, D6M, D5V, 2 x AD5, 5 x D5*, 2 x F5E, 4 x F5, 3 x E4 - plus 1 PDU.

46 Ep's spent on repairs, 7 ships removed from Mothball, plus a B10 roll.

* - I built 10 D5 hulls on turn 4 in error - so gained an AD5 in effect but delayed 6 mothball hulls. Therefore built 8 D5 hulls this month and I have the money to get some ships form mothball this turn.

No E4's left in Mothball.

Lyrans rolled OK on Survey (9, total is 52), Klingons rolled badly again with a 6 - but did get enough for the first province (20 exactly), B10 roll was good though with a 6 (11 total).

On dice - Lyran average survey roll is now 3.46, Klingon only 2.5 and B10 3.66.

Both Lyran and Klingon treasury's are close to zero.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, June 08, 2019 - 10:55 am: Edit

Where did the Coalition put PDUs, or are the inactive, waiting to get shipped to Kzintai?

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Saturday, June 08, 2019 - 12:17 pm: Edit

I'm guessing they are headed for Kzintai. I'll find out for sure in his strat move phase.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Turn 5 Coalition Operational movement has concluded.

In the north, major Coalition fleets have attacked 902, 1304 and newly liberated 1504.

In the south, modest Coalition fleets have attacked 114, 215, 315, 318, 416, 617, 714, 716, 718 and 1017.

All but 617 should fall unless saved by the Hydran reserves.

The Old Colonies are also cut off and a Klingon MB is being deployed in 613 (I would have preferred deeper into Hydran space, but the risk level was felt too high).

Large numbers of cripples have retired from the combat zones and have moved deeper into Coalition space.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - 07:44 pm: Edit

Our friendly Adolph may be getting a little ahead of himself there. At any rate, reserves have been dispatched. The Hydrans had an interesting choice whether to save the first fleet SB or minor planet 416. Normally I would save an SB without a second thought, but with the Coalition obviously going after the Hydrans next, and not the Feds, matters are different, as the 1st is not much use without Hydrax.

I had been wondering whether, after the Hydrans built the good ships in their build, they should use the remaining EP on frigates or PDUs. I see Paul has kindly relieved them of the need to do either.

Sitzkrieg on the Kzinti front.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - 04:54 am: Edit

Well, I am hardly going to say "I ran out of ships and therefore some bases are being attacked by less than the ideal numbers to ensure success"

The Klingon Minister of Propaganda has some interesting 'job roles' for Fleet Commanders who predict defeat in battle......

But yes, some battles will be very close, even without reserve turning up.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Wednesday, June 12, 2019 - 09:01 pm: Edit

Kzinti staff have apparently misestimated the situation. Because the Coalition could have attacked the SB with overwhelming force and chose not to, we assumed they were not going to press the issue. But, at least at the Count -- they have!

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, June 13, 2019 - 09:51 am: Edit

Hopefully I haven't upset the dice gods again..

Over 902 - the dice so far have been pretty brutal - 2, 5 & 2 for me v 5, 6 & 5 for William.

I was expecting +50% damage to be done by the Kzinti, but in two of three rounds it's been nearly +100%.

First battle of the war with big lines where the dice will make a massive difference I think

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, June 13, 2019 - 10:37 am: Edit

What were the exact compots and adjusted battle intensity (not including the combat die rolls) on the first battle round over the Count's Starbase?

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, June 13, 2019 - 10:58 am: Edit

107 for me and 147 for William - BIR was a 1 as we both picked 1 and VBIR went down 1!

My plans allowed William to do +50% damage and the SB would have still died... after 3 rounds it was a total of + 75%.... (81 v 143).

Compot for round 4 would have been around 85 v 126 and I still had 3 other ships which could be included, but I would have to have started self killing on round 3 to sustain a modest line - which I chose not too.

If I had done say 10 more damage, it might have been enough for me to stay for the 4th round.

I retreated and Willaim stayed on the SB.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, June 13, 2019 - 11:08 am: Edit

Thank you for the information.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Thursday, June 13, 2019 - 01:15 pm: Edit

I erred in pulling one carrier out of each of the reserves I sent to an SB. The problem is that had I sent the full reserves, the Barony next turn would have had no carriers and a lot of escorts, which would have made for awkward reserves next turn. I thought that with what I did send, the SB were secure. I was wrong about that.

At the Count, the battle started out as a close one, and the dice rewarded my error with a win. With worse dice, I would have been taking SIDS on the SB from early in the battle, and might or might not have held, depending on how much worse the dice were.

At the Duke, I'm not sure. The Kzinti have something like 10 carriers with 5 escorts total. They will have to put together some funny ad-hoc groups. The Klingons have their own problems, including a lot of low-density ships, so I don't think the outcome can be predicted.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, June 14, 2019 - 02:43 am: Edit

Yep -looks like I annoyed the dice gods...

1st round over 1304 is 3 1 5.....

I rolled well over 114 (30 compot v just a BATS) - and if we swopped 902 and 114's dice - 902 would have almost certainly died (3 rounds would have seen 30+ less damage to me and 18 damage more to William - so another round or 2 I would have stayed).

I just hope the dice from the last game are not going to repeat their timing in this game

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, June 14, 2019 - 06:57 am: Edit

I am trying not to get down, but this is getting ridiculous - round 2 over 1304 is 3 1 4!

So, with basically compots of 100+ v 140+, the average over the last 5 rounds is 2.2 v 5.

The dice are killing what I thought was a good plan.