Archive through July 25, 2019
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E INPUT:
F&E Reports from the Front:
Inactive Scenarios:
And Now For Something Completely Different - Part Deux:
Archive through July 25, 2019
Peter, if you do your battle line right with a CVBG and E3A in fighter control mission you can get 5 squadrons in the battle force with the 5th squadron not counting as a ship. E.G. Fed SCS group + any 1 squadron CV group as the CVBG. CVD group, fill in any other available slots with fodder or X-Ships for firepower as desired.
Using a SCS+NVH, and CVD group the CVD group (12) counts as 1 squadron, the NVH group (9H or 10V) counts as 1 squadron, the SCS group 8, 10V count as 2 squadrons (4 limit on the CVBG rule), the 5th squadron is the F-18s from the SCS itself.
There are other ways to do it, but this is my favorite way so far.
Jason, the extra IFF of the third way can be more than 6 points of fighters, it's an extra squadron. If you use a CAV to fed forward fighter you can add 10 factor.
The most extreme and absurd quantity of fighters the federation can put on a single line is 51, with a CVBG with an SCS(wich 6 F18 fighters squadron are the extra fighters granted by an E3 Swac, this fighters cost an extra command slot only if they don't come from a carrier already on the line), a CVD , 5 HDWE and 2 light escorts, and 10 fighters fed forward from a A20 carring carrier. But I'll put one less HDWE so you'll have the 5 command point left to put in a Battle group too...
CT28
y182 SP T28
Lyran Econ:
Command Points: 1
Exploration: 260+9=269 (+10, 290 next)
Treasury EP: 26.325 (AT27)
On Map Provinces (32): 29(.5)=14.5
Off Map Provinces(8): 28 (.5)=14
Captured Provinces: 3.4+2=5.4 (.5)=2.7
On Map Planets: (59): 59 (.5)=29.5
Off Map Planets: (16): 16 (.5)=8
Captured Planets: 4 (.5)=2
XTP Conversion (20%, +10)=(24.14)
Total EP: 72.855 (70.7 generated)
Treasury XTP: 0
XTP from Conversion: 24.14
XTP from Planets (40%): 31.6
XTP Bonus: 6
Total XTP: 61.74
Construction T28:
-12 CCX (XTP, DN)
-12 CCX (XTP, CA)
-8 CWS (NCA)
-15 3CW
-6+1 HDWE
-12 3DW
-2.5 FF (DW)
-2.5 FF
-0 6PF (pool)
-0 24PF (4 flotilla to pool, 6FFF)
Construction Total EP: 47
Construction Total XTP: 24
Conversions:
-36 SB>SBX (1407, 18EP 18XTP)
-6 CA>CCX (XTP, 0408)
Conversion Total EP: 18
Conversion Total XTP: 24
Repairs:
-1.5 (CW 2916)
Repair Total: 1.5 (EP)
Pay To Supply Ships:
Total Spent EP: 48.5
Total Spent XTP: 30
Treasury EP: 7.855
Treasury XTP: 13.74
PF Replacement:
Field Repair:
FFF Left: 0
Salvage:
-----------------------------------------------
Klingon Econ:
Command Points: 4
Exploration: 174+4=178 (+7, 190 next)
Treasury EP: 29.08 (AT27)
On Map Provinces (52): 50 (.5)=25
Off Map Provinces(0): 14 (.5)=7
Captured Provinces: 8.2+14=22.2 (.5)=11.1
On Map Planets: (90): 90 (.5)=45
Captured Planets: 16 (.5)=8
XTP Conversion (20%, +10)=(29.22)
XTP additional Conversion=(2:1=1)
Total EP: 93.96 (96.1 generated)
Treasury XTP: 12.27 (AT27)
XTP from Conversion: 30.22
XTP from Planets (40%): 42.4
XTP Bonus: 8
Total XTP: 82.89
Construction T28:
-13 DX (XTP, C8)
-14 D5DX (XTP, D5)
-20 2D5X (XTP, D5)
-27 3FX (XTP, F5)
-5 2E4 (D7)
-6 D5W
-7 MD5
-20 4D5
-6+0 HDWE (.5 FFF)
-8 2F5W
-7.5 3E4 (F5)
-2.5 E4
-0 48PF (8 flotilla to pool, 12FFF)
Construction Total EP: 62
Construction Total XTP: 74
Conversions:
-8 (2D5X>D5DX, 1411)
Conversion Total EP:
Conversion Total XTP: 8
Repairs:
-3 (2STJ 2916)
-3.5 (D5, 2E4 1411)
Repair Total: 6.5 (EP)
Adopting Lyrans:
-Currently 0 adopted; 12 spare lines.
Adoption Total:
Total EP Spent: 68.5
Total XTP Spent: 82
Treasury EP: 25.46
Treasury XTP: 0.89
FFF Left: 0
DBB:
PF Replacement:
Field Repair:
Remaining:
Salvage:
-----------------------------------------------
Romulan Econ:
Command Points: 1
Spare Parts: 4, -1=3 (CT28)
Exploration: 156+17=173 (+7, 190 next)
Treasury: 33.65 (AT27)
On Map Provinces (62): 62 (.5)=31
Off Map Provinces(0): 14 (.5)=7
Captured Provinces: 6.8+16=22.8 (.5)=11.4
On Map Planets: (51): 51 (.5)=25.5
Captured Planets: 7 (.5)=3.5
XTP Conversion: (20%, +10)=(25.68)
Total EP: 86.37 (78.4 generated)
Treasury XTP: 0
XTP from Conversion: 25.68
XTP from Planets (40%): 23.2
XTP Bonus: 6
Total XTP: 54.88
Construction T28:
-14 FHX (XTP, NH)
-14 FHX (XTP, FH)
-24 2SPX (XTP, SP)
-7 SPF
-10 SPE (6PF from pool)
-5 SP
-6+1 HDWE
-17.5 5SK
-7.5 3SEH
-2.5 SN (WE)
-2.5 SN
-0 LAP (6PF)
-0 48PF (8 flotilla to pool, 12FFF)
-0 6PF 3711 (PDUs 6PF from pool)
-PF2: 2 flotilla 4410, 2 flotilla 4514, 2 flotilla 4812,
2 flotilla 4613, 2 flotilla 4015, 1 flotilla 3715, 1 flotilla 3914,
1 flotilla 4012, 1 flotilla 4010, 1 flotilla 4110,
1 flotilla 4310, 1 flotilla 4510, 1 flotilla 3817,
Construction Total EP: 59
Construction Total XTP: 52
Conversions:
-1 SPB>SPV (3509)
Conversion Total EP: 1
Conversion Total XTP:
Repairs:
-8 (FHF, 3SP, SK 3518)
-8 (FH, 2SP, SK, 2SEH 3711)
-1 (SK 4010)
Repair Total: 17 (EP)
Adopt Ships: (1/12)
Total EP Spent: 77
Total XTP Spent: 52
FFF Left: 0
Treasury EP: 9.37
Treasury XTP: 2.88
i'm desynchronizing the whole conversation 
i was talking about the fight in 2812, where the feds ran when they ran low on cx; the fleet was listed as having no cvbg in it. i was unsure that you could take the IFF in a line with no cvbg in it.
i would never use swacs for fighters, paying EW in order to nerf your own compot is not so appealing
i tend to prefer CVAs to SCSs and use the funds and limited A20 conversions for various medium carriers, esp the scout carriers (yum). the scs hogs your fighter limit, funny thing to complain about i know, but "my whole line is hiding behind a couple FFEs" hasn't lost its merit. with the 2 extra SEs the feds are suddenly allowed to take into battle, swapping NCLs for X ships is a real possibility.
Romulan Xships are brutal - huge compot, super cloak rules.
I don't think the Klingons can have 3D5DX - I think the hard limit on drone ships per turn is 2.
Chris wrote::
>>i was talking about the fight in 2812, where the feds ran when they ran low on cx; the fleet was listed as having no cvbg in it. i was unsure that you could take the IFF in a line with no cvbg in it.>>
Oh, heh, yeah, don't ever get too caught up in the specifics of the reports; like, I'm not taking notes on things, and it is all just my best memory, and often I'm collapsing details or confabulating things. It is possible that line had a CVBG in it; it is possible that he had numerous CVBGs set up in the hex, but on the last particular round I remembered, it was just an SCS group.
Most of the time these days, the Feds have CVBGs in combat. Once and a while they don't, and it is usually due to maximizing carrier lines for long fights.
Richard wrote:
>>Romulan Xships are brutal - huge compot, super cloak rules. >>
Yeah, and they get SPX immediately. Which seems nuts.
>>I don't think the Klingons can have 3D5DX - I think the hard limit on drone ships per turn is 2.>>
Huh. I specifically went looking for that, and in the Klingon OB it doesn't indicate an absolute limit, but now you bring it up, there is probably a general limit in the generic list. Lemme go hunt for that. But yeah, now that you mention it, I suspect you are right. Which seems much more sensical :-)
The limit of drone ships is a maximum build/conversion rate of 2 per turn. X-Drone Ships count against drone ship limit and against the scout limit so you could only sub 1 D5DX per year. The other 3 in a given year would have to be by conversion of D5Xs. See (703.23) on the latest order of battle for the Klingons.
Using SWACs under (518.41) for EW points does not reduce the Feds compot or damage. Now Wild SWACs (518.43) will reduce the amount of damage a Fed fleet will do.
Thomas wrote:
>>Using SWACs under (518.41) for EW points does not reduce the Feds compot or damage. >>
I suspect that Chris was suggesting that using a SWAC to command a half squadron of fighters instead of the 1 point of EW is a bad trade.
In any case, thanks for the rules updates, but we move on to the game!
Remember there is no limit on the number of operational SWACs in a battle force provided you have the requisite number of units that can operate them in the battle force. See (518.22). So under certain circumstances you could easily have 6 or 7 in late war battle hexes.
CT28
Under advisement from Auditors, the Klingon econ has changed a bit; the only converted 1D5X>D5DX, resulting in them not converting 2EP>1XTP, and they have a few more XTP in treasury.
Raids and moves have started!
There is one raid in Kzinti space (a DNL+5PFX hitting the capital province), on raid in Fed space (a NW province by the Klingons), and two raids in Gorn space (2 NW provinces by the Romulans). In all likelihood, these raids will simply face brave POLs.
Moves are underway. Cripples have moved off the front lines, ComCons have moved, getting the Klingons +10EP.
In Kzinti space, the Lyrans are pinning Kzinti forces at 1105. In Fed space, Romulans have sent 8 ships up to attack 6 ships in hex 3001 (right by the off map zone). It is possible that the Romulans can cut the Fed Off Map zone at this point. The Feds have 4 reserves with X ships in them that can reach 3001, but each reserve only has 1 or 2 (max) X-ships in them, so sending X ships up that way will result in large piles of non X-ship reserves not going somewhere else. Successfully cutting off the off map zone would result in the Feds having to bank, like, 30EPs at the off map SB. But between SB construction and tugs getting the money, it is a minor inconvenience, at best. But it's something!
CT28
Op moves are done, and I'm waiting on reserves!
In Hydran space, there is one fight. The Coalition started trying to pin the Hydrans at planet 0416; I got up to about 175 SEQ compared to the Hydran's about 200 SEQ and it became apparent that I could not actually pin him there, so I gave up. So there is a big fight over 0416, where the Hydrans have the advantage, and I moved some ships into 0614, provoking some reaction which did not take. Those ships are probably there to facilitate Lyran retrograde movement back to SB 0411.
In Kzinti space, there are 3 fights. The Coalition recaptured a lot of provinces. There is an overwhelming Lyran attack at planet 1105, an overwhelming Klingon attack at planet 1504, and a marginally advantaged Klingon attack at planet 1802. The Kzinti can probably win at 1802 if they send reserves there.
On the Fed/Klingon front, there are 4 fights. The Klingons have an overwhelming attack on 2306, a marginally advantaged fight at planet 2610, an overwhelming Klingon attack at planet 2811, and a marginally advantaged Klingon attack at planet 3210. The Feds have 4 reserves that can tip the balance at the marginally advantaged fights, certainly.
On the Fed/Romulan front, only 2 fights. An advantaged attack against some ships in 3001 and an overwhelming attack on planet 3306. The Romulans have recaptured a lot of Fed space, and will likely cut the Fed Off Map zone off from the Capital this turn (there will probably be a solid line of Romulan ships between the off map and the Capital by the end of the turn). The Feds have numerous X ships that can reserve to 3001 (7 hexes from reserve fleets), but they are 1 per reserve, and would leave the rest of the reserves behind. And probably wouldn't change the big picture outcome.
In Gorn space, 2 fights. An advantaged fight in capital hex 4403 (which is already devastated, but about to recover; the Romulans probably intend on redevastating those planets). An advantaged attack on planet 4001. The Gorn reserves could probably both tip the balance in 4001.
So only a dozen battle hexes this turn. The Romulans will almost certainly cut the Feds off from their off map, which, as noted, is inconvenient, but hardly devastating. And probably will only ever happen this one time. The Coalition are going to need to pull ships back from the front lines here in numerous places, to defend vulnerable locations that the Alliance can now hit.
Reserves to move!
CT28
Reserves have moved--the Hydrans sent both reserves to planet 0416 (only place they could go).
Kzinti sent a reserve to 1105 and a reserve to 1802, which probably saves 1802.
The Feds sent 2 reserves to 2306 and some X ships from 2 other reserves move 7 hexes to 3001, which will win that hex, but the retreating Romulans will still cut off supply to the off map zone.
The Gorn sent both reserves to 4001, which will likely save that planet.
Battles to follow!
CT28
Battles are well underway.
In Hydran space, after two rounds, the Hydrans held on to planet 0416 again; in the second round, the Hydrans just dropped a bunch of damage on the Lyrans, and the Lyrans decided it wasn't worth continuing in the clearly losing fight (the Hydrans had significantly more ships, and *way* more fighters than the Coalition did). At press time, the Hydrans have 6EPs worth of real-estate on the map (3 disrupted provinces, a full province, devastated minor planet). They outship the Coalition in the area. They have clearly become a problem.
In Kzinti space, the Kzinti held onto planet 1802; the Klingons took back planet 1504; combat is currently underway over planet 1105; the Lyrans have a lot more ships and attrition units, but the Kzinti have enough fighters and carrier groups to be able to fight for a while if they are so inclined.
On the Fed/Klingon front, the Klingons took back planet 2306 and are fighting over 2811. The Feds can now successfully put up some really scary lines without much work. Over 2306, they had a line of:
DNH(adm), 4xCX, [2xNVH+2xHDWE+2xNAC+FF], NCL, 6xIFF, 2xE2C, NSC(scout form) - 130/7
They didn't have much back up in the hex, so they only fought a round, both sides lost an X cruiser, and the Feds left.
On the Romulan/Fed front, the Romulans successfully sealed off the off map area from the rest of the Fed economy (which is gonna result in a bunch of out of supply SNs to explode at the hands of raids and the like), and recaptured planet 3306.
On the Gorn front, the Romulans redevastated and recaptured Ghdar II (4403), and took back planet 4001.
A few more fights to go!
Fun fact: unsupplied Roms cannot cloak.
(see: "which is gonna result in a bunch of out of supply SNs to explode..." :-)
Only 2 will be out of supply. The rest will be able to roll very well and evade combat.
CT28
The turn is over!
In Hydran space, the Coalition were repulsed from planet 0416, still held by the Hydrans.
In Kzinti space, the Coalition took back planets 1105, 1504, and a lot of Kzinti space, but were repelled from planet 1802.
On the Fed/Klingon front, the Klingons took back planets 2306, 2610, and 2811.
On the Fed/Romulan front, the Romulans took back planet 3306, and cut the Fed off map zone from the main economic grid. And are currently swarming the whole NE of Fed space.
In Gorn space, the Romulans recaptured Ghdar II (4403, but won't hold it for long) and planet 4001.
Nothing happened on the Tholian front.
Ships killed:
-LYR: CW, FF
-KLI: DX, 3E4
-ROM: 2SP, SK, SEE, SN
-ZIN: 3FF
-HYD: SC, CU
-FED: CX, NCL, 2FF
-GRN: HD
-THN
So only 11 dead Coalition and 10 dead Alliance (and numerous PFs and some F111s), so not a high combat turn.
Dice wise this turn, we both rolled identically below average, at 2.92 for both of us.
Map at end of CT28:
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/SCD2mapCT28end.html
AT28
Econ:
The Fed have about 64 EP and 133 XTP to spend in their main Capital grid, and have about 31 EP at their off map grid. Off map, they fix some FFs, build a DW, convert it to an HDWE, and save about 20 EPs to transfer back to the capital at some point. At the main grid, the Fed build an SCS, HDWE, 8FF, SWAC, 2CX, and 10DDX (22 total ships, plus 1 off map; including 12 X ships). They end the econ phase with about 20 EP saved off map and about 9 XTP at the capital.
The Kzinti have about 35 EP and about 36 XTP to spend this turn. They build CVH, HDWP, FFK, 8FF, and BCX (12 ships). They convert DD>PFT, spend the balance of their XTP on repairs (12 XTP). End econ with a tiny fraction of an EP and almost 2 XTP.
The Hydrans have about 19 EP and about 19 XTP to spend this turn. They build HDWP, AH, 3CU, RNX, LNX. End econ with about 3 EP and about 1 XTP in treasury.
The Gorn have about 58 EP to spend (including a 32 EP treasury) and about 35 XTP. They build CMV, CLE, HDWE, 3BD, DDE, DD, 3HDX. Spend 3 EP on repairs. End with 13 EP and about 3 XTP in treasury.
The Tholians have about 31 EP to spend. They build DPW, CWE, 2PC, overbuild another PC with their last 5 EP ('cause why not?), and with 0.7 EP.
On to raids!
AT28
In the raid step, the Alliance successfully raided 6 Coalition provinces, got a BF scared off by a lucky POL that rolled a 12, and a Fed DNL raid attacked a pair of out of supply SNs in the North edge of Fed space, rolled a 6, did 2 casualties which resulted in one of the SNs being crippled and them both retreating. He needed to roll a 9 to kill one of the SNs, so it wasn't super likely, but there was no possible way for the DNL to be injured.
AT28
Moves are underway!
In Hydran space, the Hydrans have sent a fleet to Lyran SB 0411. At press time, it is about 60 SEQ, and the Lyrans are at about 47 SEQ, so I'm pinned, but it isn't necessarily an overwhelming attack on a SB with PFs, so possibly just a pinning move. But they do still have well over 100 SEQ left to send places.
In Kzinti space, the Kzinti have pinned Lyrans at planet 1105 and are rounding up province raiders currently.
In Fed space, the Feds are currently hunting down Romulans in the North edge of Fed space.
The Gorns are currently rounding up province raiders.
The Tholians are making a big move on their last turn of operation, and have sent about 75 SEQ (which is mostly PCs, but including all their aux hulls) to the Coalition SB park in 2916 (Klingon and Romulan SB, Lyran BATS), where the Coalition currently have about 78 SEQ at the SB, so also possibly just a pinning move. Most of the Tholian hard hitting ships are still waiting to move.
I have to say, whether or not you've gotten rid of rules to slow you down, your pace in this game is impressive. Congrats. I look forward to seeing it's conclusion!
Thanks! Yeah, the only significant rules we took out from the rulebooks we are using (2K10, CO, FO, AO) are:
-Ground Attack: This seems like a significant time saver, as that is a lot of extra back and forth for each battle. Probably mostly hurts the Coalition.
-Monitors: Not really a time saver at all, but taken out to kind of balance out the G ship removal.
-SFGs and Penal Ships: Also probably something of time saver, as they both require more back and forth during the combat phase.
-Fed Logistics Task Forces: Not really a time issue, but mostly omitted as a tit for tat with the SFGs and Penal Ships.
-Police Ships: Probably not much time issue here, mostly removed for fidliness and balance with the other removals. We left in abstract, not on the map police ships for raid opposition (all of them are default 4's).
-Ship Captures: That one is purely done for time saving, as the constant "Oops! We forgot to roll for ship captures!" conversation is annoying :-)
I think that is all we have removed from the rules set. I might be missing one or two minor ones that I can't think of.
(It also helps that I'm a high school teacher so currently it is summer and I have a lot of free time; Jason apparently has insomnia or something, so is up late a lot :-)
Heh, somehow I think that last statement is the most important to your pace!
All I know is i have enjoyed the game. I really do want to see the end as well. I do not play F&E but well it is interesting.. might get me to learn how heheheh