AT28

In Hydran space, the Hydrans sent another 60 some odd SEQ to Lyran SB 0411. The Lyrans are becoming concerned.

In Kzinti space, they are now attacking Klingon held planet 1506, but only have about half as many ships in the hex as the Klingons do. They also have sent ships into Fed space to help attack planet 2106.

The Feds continue to round up province raiders, and have started piling ships on planet 2106, but I think they still have not quite the same number as the Klingons.

In Gorn space, there is a lot of province raider chasing down, but no big fleets have moved yet.

On the Tholian front, the Tholians have now moved all their ships onto hex 2916 (Klingon SB, Romulan SB, Lyran BATS). The Klingons reacted a nearby fleet into the hex. As of press time, there are about 100 SEQ of Coalition and about 110 SEQ of Tholians. There are also about 90 SEQ of Feds that are in range, but they gotta past the B10 Fleet in 2812 which is very large and currently unpinned.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 06:47 pm: Edit

Tholian suicide mission?

By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 12:38 am: Edit

"Let's you and them fight"

Fed diplomat (with relish)

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 01:21 am: Edit

I figure the Tholians can afford to lose 40 or 50 ships and still be able to defend their territory.

Just have to decide if 40 or 50 ships is enough to kill a very well defended SB.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 09:03 am: Edit

If it kills that many more are even cripples a few Klingon/Lyran ships? are Roms is still good yes.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 09:25 pm: Edit

And now its combat time in T28A.

Hydran space there is 3 small fights and a very large fight on Lyran SB 0411.

Kzinti spce there is 4 small fights, a moderate fight over 1506, large fight over 1105, and Klingon BATS 0908 is going to die for zero cost to the Kzinti.

Tholian space a very large Tholian fleet is attacking 2xSB and a BATS in 2916. The BATS is probably going to die, but I dont think there is enough to take down both the SB. The Feds decided not to bother going and helping.

Gorn space has 6 small fights, a moderate fight in 4403 to kick the Romulans out, and a large fight in 4705 where the Gorn simply cant budge the Romulans.

In northern Fed space there is 4 small fights and a moderate fight in 3002.

In western Fed space there is a small fight, a moderate fight in 3306 and a large fight in 3509.

In southern Fed space there is 9 small fights where the Feds are getting back 2715 and 2610 and removing raiders, taking 2214 again, and having a major fight in 2812.

In eastern Fed space there is 4 small fights with the Feds getting back 2306 and a large fight in 2106.

All up I think we have around 43 or 44 fights this turn.

Going to be a LOT of salvage !

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 29, 2019 - 11:17 am: Edit

AT28

Combat is well under way.

In Hydran space, the Hydrans killed a few province raiders and decided against impaling themselves on the 180 compot over Lyran SB 0411 this turn. I still think they can kill that SB without too much damage, but it is certainly daunting. On the upside, they still have most of their fleet on the map, hold planet 0416 pretty strongly, have more ships in Hydran space than the Coalition do (and the Coalition need to defend in two different directions, forcing them to split forces), and they have now captured the two southern Lyran provinces.

In Kzinti space, the Kzinti killed some province raiders, took back planet 1105 (killing a shiny new Lyran CCX in the process), and will kill Klingon BATS 0908 for zero damage in return. They have an attrition fight over Klingon held planet 1506 to do.

In Fed space, the Feds messed up all the Romulans in the North, taking back planet 3306 (leaving them without a supply point) and killed a bunch of little ships. Cloak rolls are currently 11 and 7, which is tilting for the Alliance currently. The Feds have taken back planets 2214, 2306, and 2715 (which the Klingons have held since T7 or 8). They are currently fighting over planet 2106, where both sides have compots in the 130's (numerous X ships and CVBGs). The Klingons tried out a [D5X, 2D5DX, 3FX] BG, and even with the -2EW shift, it turns out that killing a D5DX is real easy (22 points with x-mauling), so they decided that was a bad idea unless they really need it to happen, so the surviving D5Dx has been relegated to invulnerable scout duty.

In Gorn space, the Gorn have killed some province raiders and are fighting over 4705 for a few rounds, but will probably leave it in Romulan hands.

So far, 19 Coalition and 5 Alliance have died, so a fairly lopsided turn so far. I think a couple fights are still in process, so probably it's 19/7. But still.

Lots more combat to go.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, July 29, 2019 - 12:07 pm: Edit

Did the Tholians do their thing yet?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 29, 2019 - 02:51 pm: Edit

Nope. There are about 100 Tholian ships (over 50% are PC hulls) including all their auxes in 2516. They have 54 fighters and 36 PFs on top of that.

The Coalition have 84 ships (although not much in the way of real heavy units), 52 ship fighters, 2SB, BATS (and the 30 fighters and 30 PFs).

The Tholians have a lot of web casters in the hex, so they can likely hit the Lyran BATS (which will certainly be the "hidden" base, so they'll have to face two simultaneous SBs on top of that) while web casting the 2SB, BATS, and whatever my best ship on the line is (probably a C8V), and not get *too* mangled.

Killing that BATS doesn't cost me any VPs (as it is an extra base in a hex with multiple bases), but it does complicate Lyran supply in the south of Fed space. And I'm unlikely to be able to ever replace it. And if the Tholians survive with, like, half their fleet, they are still probably safe from getting their Capital captured.

By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Monday, July 29, 2019 - 08:35 pm: Edit

isnt everything that's not a neo-tholian technically just PC hulls?

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Monday, July 29, 2019 - 08:48 pm: Edit

There are a few odds and ends, like Web Tenders or Aux CVs, that are not PC hulls.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 03:17 pm: Edit

AT28

Combat is beginning to wind up. The Tholians attacked the southern Coalition base nexus in 2915 (KLI SB, ROM SB, LYR BATS) and over a couple rounds of fighting all three bases as full compot (minus a lot of web casting), killed the Lyran BATS and left the game, losing a few ships and a lot of attrition units in the process. The Coalition compot started at about 245 before the web casting reduction, but ended up at about 168 in reality. I didn't fight an approach vs the Tholians, as it seemed mostly pointless (I'd lose ships and take damage, and wouldn't have prevented the Tholians from killing the BATS anyway). The Tholians probably could have stuck around and fought by one of the SBs to burn their fighters and PFs and take out some of my ships for a few more rounds, as it doesn't really matter if the Tholians lose more ships at this point, but it is mostly a wash anyway. The Tholians then retreated after killing the BATS, I declined to pursue a few cripples and a bunch of Auxes (as, well, it doesn't matter), and the Tholians retreat to fight the Seltorians for the rest of the game.

The Tholians overall managed to kill 4 or 5 BATS (including the Lyran one--I don't lose any VPs for the Lyran BATS dying, as it was colocated with a couple SBs, so didn't count for VPs anyway) and took out a handful of Coalition ships. They never managed to capture planet 2518; they attacked it mulitple times, stripped it down to a single PDU, but never pressed long enough to devastate or capture it, which they probably could have done if Jason felt like sucking up more damage. They did manage to tie up 100+ ships for 7 turns, starting at a point when the Feds started to turn things around, so that *definitely* helped the Alliance start coming back.

Elsewhere, the Feds attacked Klingon held planet 2812, but fled after a round (the Klingons had, as usual, a line of the B10 and half a dozen X ships), mostly just tying them up so that other fights could go well for the Feds; the Kzinti fought a round over planet 1506, and also fled after a round. The Klingons held on to planet 2106. One or two more fights left.

At press time, the Coalition have lost 31 ships (a significant number without salvage) and the Alliance have lost 13, but 3 of those are Tholians, which don't matter.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 03:47 pm: Edit

At least the Tholians got to be played (and not just to put them on the map and die in a turn!).

Acccepting the Coalition could have ignored them (if the SB hadn't been built) - but could the Tholians have done to more (accepting you have to leave a modest intact Tholian fleet to ensure the Coalition doesn't come calling)?

With the sever restrictions...I am not sure the Tholians can do anything really

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 03:51 pm: Edit

Sp. thpigjts on the Web Caster in F&E? So few of us get to use 'e, or fight against 'em.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Tholians can use expeditionary fleets. throw away ships in that fleet and come back for more, at least for a while. That's pretty useful on top of attacking everything within two of Tholian space (and sitting two hexes outside, taking EP from the Coalition if they can).

They're not going to conquer empire, but they'll cost the Coalition EP if the Coalition wont fight them and they'll STILL get one fleet (battle force size) to go attack with, anywhere they can reach.

I mean, why do the Tholians need to keep most of their fleet intact? If they keep a good battle line of ships alive, they can lose most of the rest and still bleed the Coalition heavily if they try to attack (which might help the alliance further if they can get the Coalition to try it on turn 29 or later...).

Now, if they use full rules including the Seltorians than they may want to keep a stronger defense but even if they get wiped out, the Seltorians still won't attack the alliance if the alliance players are smart enough not to give the Seltorians any Tholians in alliance space to chase.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 06:46 pm: Edit

The Web Casters are just awesome. Turned 60 point SB in to 30 point SB.

4 of them reduced the Coalition Compot by about 80.

As for using the Tholians, I guess they could have been more aggressive, but at most I would probably have half killed an SB and the Feds would not have had time to get there before it was repaired.

I dont think I could have taken out an SB, and even then its annoying but not damaging. I needed to get 2xSB and the BATS to get the 20 VP for the Alliance.

Pretty much the game for the last 7 turns is Peter and I working out how to maximise VP.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Does the web caster halve both the SB _and_ its attrition units? that doesn't sound right off the top of my head.

I'm not saying you should have tried to kill a starbase in that battle, but I might have hung around and directed more Coalition ships before my Tholians go back to Tholian never to return.

If you keep a reasonable line intact for Tholian defense (and a fair bit of chaff to take damage points on) you could do a lot of damage if the Coalition DID attack, perhaps you'd want him to just for the damage to his fleets. Sure he might take Tholia, but if that damage might rob him of enough strength to defend effectively against the alliance. You might in such a case be able to isolate and then destroy (or at least maul) the Romulans. Anywho, you did get good use from the Tholians and I'm glad we got to see it.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 07:18 pm: Edit

The Web Caster rule says it halves the target and all associated Fighters and PFs.

If I wasnt going for the SB then maybe they could have killed 3 or 4 more Coalition ships which probably dont matter long term.

And the dice could have gone very badly.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 07:30 pm: Edit

Oh geez, thanks.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 07:36 pm: Edit

Yeah, they are NICE. But given how hard it is to replace them, you have to use them carefully.

Plus, there is only so much of a window where you get to have fun with them.

The Coalition will either mostly ignore them, or wipe them out on T10/11/12.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 08:48 am: Edit

Jason wrote (and Paul asked about):
>>As for using the Tholians, I guess they could have been more aggressive, but at most I would probably have half killed an SB and the Feds would not have had time to get there before it was repaired. >>

Yeah, I think the Tholians could have been a *little* more aggressive/effective, but not so much that it probably made a giant difference. They could have certainly devastated (and maybe captured?) planet 2518 at some point (if they had just parked their whole fleet there at some point earlier on and just dropped damage on the defending Lyrans, they would have fled at some point); they probably could have cost the Klingons or Romulans some EPs at the cost of some PC hulls getting burned up by leaving some ships in their space on the edges. But they weren't ever gonna, like, blow up either of those Starbases or anything.

They also could have probably used the Detached Fleet (12 ships that can move more than 2 hexes from Tholian space) a little more aggressively--send them to attack SB 2318, so that the Lyrans there need to leave ships behind (pinned or otherwise) when the main fleet gets to planet 2518, for example. End a turn with the Detached Fleet on a border BATS instead of the Capital, so it could reach, like, BATS 2218 or planet 2216, again, making the Lyrans sitting on SB 2518 have to decide what to defend. For next time! :-)

Like, in the grand scheme, as previously noted, they made the Coalition put, like, 100+ ships in a disadvantageous place (relative to the Feds, who I really needed those ships to be fighting instead), which was very significant.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 10:44 am: Edit

But imagine that even modest increases in problems for the Coalition in the Tholian theatre would have weakened them selsewhere, better enabling the alliance to go on offensives and do more damage.

But yes, the Tholians did prove troublesome.

By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 11:45 am: Edit

be interesting to see what a difference getting the ships *back* makes for the coalition.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 01:19 pm: Edit

At this point, the ships that were stapled to the bases by the Tholians (I just counted; I currently have, like, 125 ships spread between SB 2318, SB 3518, and SB park 2516 which has most of them; granted, about 2 dozen ships reacted in from planet 2715, which allowed the Feds to take that planet back) are probably going to end up staying in and around there, as, well, that is the front line now.

Having those 100 some odd ships pulled back to the Tholian border on T22 meant that they weren't pressing into Fed space, and likely preventing me from ever getting into the Fed capital (which I never did). And as such, the Feds are now pushing forward, and while I needed those ships to protect against the Tholians on T22, I now need them to protect those same bases against the Feds, as the Feds can currently reach 2519; and probably will be able to hit the SBs in 2318 and 3518 their next turn as well, if they are so inclined.

So while the Tholians didn't do a ton of damage in and of themselves, them being in the game did have a very significant impact.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 07:49 am: Edit

AT28

Combat is over!

In Hydran space, the Hydrans killed some province raiders, made an aborted attack on SB 0411 (well, they piled on, pinned everything, thought about attacking, and then declined), and captured two Lyran provinces. The Hydrans currently control most of Western Hydran space.

The Kzinti took back planet 1105 and most of their space, killing numerous province raiders. They killed Klingon BATS 0908 (which was crippled last turn). They fought a round over planet 1506, but then gave that fight up.

On the Fed/Klingon front, the Feds took back planets 2214, 2306, 2610, 2715 (reclaimed after, like, 10 years of Klingon occupation), and 2811. They attacked, but were repulsed, from planets 2106 and 2812.

On the Fed/Romulan front, the Feds took back planet 3306 and captured planet 3515 that the Romulans have held since T10. They also mangled the Romulans that were in the North edge of Fed space, cutting off the Off Map area, killing 4 or 5 ships and leaving no salvage. There is now a cloud of Fed ships in that area.

In Gorn space, the Gorn took back Ghdar II (4403), killed some province raiders, reclaimed space.

The Tholians attacked Coalition base nexus 2916, killing the recently built Lyran BATS, which is unlikely to be replaced any time soon, if ever, leaving a handful of Lyrans stranded in Romulan space.

Ships Killed:
-LYR: CCX, 2FF (FF)
-KLI: D5DX, FX, 2D5, F5, 8E4, (E4)
-ROM: FHX, SPF, 2SP, SK, 2SEH, 2SN, K4, (KE, 3SN)

-ZIN: CM, FF
-HYD:
-FED: 3CX, FF
-GRN: 2BD, DDE, 2DD
-THA: NCL, 2DD

So 32 dead Coalition, 11 dead Alliance, and then 3 dead Tholians (that don't really count for anything). A fairly brutal turn for Coalition relative hull loss; it is unclear how much longer they'll be able to keep trying to hold that much Alliance space. The Alliance control the majority of their provinces currently.

Dice wise, the Alliance rolled marginally better than the Coalition, and above average, with 3.625 over 22 rolls; the Coalition did fine with 3.54.