Chuck! I can't for the life of me find where you posted the response.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 05:46 pm: Edit

Peter he edited your post in 'Federation SIT Files'.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 06:36 pm: Edit

Can someone post a link? I'm not seeing anything anywhere :-/

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 06:55 pm: Edit

http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/37/29685.html?#POST809510

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 08:25 pm: Edit

You'd probably convert a GVX from a CVL, much cheaper.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 08:48 pm: Edit

Yeah, CVL>GVX costs 8 XTP, plus a squad of F111's that you have sitting in the pool anyway. That seems like a fine deal.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 08:10 am: Edit

AT29

The Feds have 104 EP and 102 XTP to spend this turn (they had a windfall of 20 EP that was stuck off map show up this turn). They build 3CX, 5DDX, NVH, NHV, 2NAC, NCS, HDWE, DW, 15FF, SWAC. They convert 2CA>CX, DW>HDWE. The spend a few EPs on repairs. The end econ with 3 EP and 5 XTP in treasury. They also have a giant pile of F111 squadrons stored up for NVH/NHV carriers.

The Kzinti have 29 EP and 31 XTP to spend this turn. They build BCX, HDWP, FFK, 4FF, convert CM>MPF, spend 6 XTP on repairs. End econ with less than an EP and 13 XTP in treasury. The Kzinti have been burning up their PF pool, and are almost out of PFs.

The Hydrans have 13 EP and 20 XTP to spend this turn (they have a couple EPs stranded off map at the partial grid around planet 0416 as well). They build DGX, HDWE, AH, 2CU. They end econ with less than an EP and 7 XTP saved, having used some to build a CU.

The Gorn have 41 EP and 30 XTP to spend this turn. They build 2HDX, HDP, 3BD, DDE, 3DD; convert HD>HDP, successfully activate an Off Map DD. End econ with less than an EP and 8 XTP.

On to raids!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 08:24 am: Edit

AT29

6 of 7 raided provinces are successfully raided. A brave POL chased off a Fed DNL on the edge of Klingon space, however.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 10:34 am: Edit

Yes that is right. Turn 29 and the Gorn finally rolled a 2 to active the OffMap Mothballed DD.

The dice this game have been just crazy.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 11:17 am: Edit

Why no X conversions other than the Feds?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 05:38 pm: Edit

I got no particular insight, but I suspect it is 'cause Jason is saving XTP to make more ships in the long run, rather than burning out the small amount of XTPs he has now?

Like, the Kzinti could convert a BC>BCX, and the Gorn could convert a BC>CCX, but I suspect he is waiting another turn or two to be able to make multiple, lighter X ships when they are available?

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Richard, Peter is correct.

And hull count is vital. The Alliance is finally on the offence and Peter is working hard to protect as much space as possible.

This turn he has 3 vulnerable SB.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, August 07, 2019 - 08:13 am: Edit

AT29

Moves are under way!

In Hydran space, so far they have just piled on some province raiders and reopened supply. The main fleet in 0416 is unmoved currently.

In Kzinti space, also just rounding up province raiders. The Kzinti have a big fleet at 1001 that can reach Lyran SB 0404, and a smaller, yet still significant fleet in 1104 that can reach numerous deep Lyran and Klingon targets.

In Fed space on both sides, currently they are just rounding up province raiders.

Same thing in Gorn space.

Lots of ships to move, likely lots and lots of combat hexes, lots of potential for various big fights--the Alliance can hit SB 0404, SB 0411, the SB park in 2916. We'll see where they go.

By Nick Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, August 07, 2019 - 08:29 am: Edit

Wow, how many starbases qualify as a SB park?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, August 07, 2019 - 09:51 am: Edit

Well, 2. It was 2SB (Klingon and Romulan) and a BATS, but the Tholians killed the Lyran BATS last turn.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 10:11 am: Edit

AT29

The Alliance have made some big moves, still with plenty of ships to go places.

The Kzinti have sent 61 SEQ to attack Lyran SB 0404, which is defended by 42 SEQ (including fixed defense units). The Hydrans have sent the bulk of their fleet (135 ships, 206 fighters, and 6 PF flotillas) to Lyran SB 0411, which is defended by 56 SEQ of units. There is a solid Lyran reserve in 0608 that can make it to either fight. The Hydrans can certainly kill SB 0411 if they are willing to take the hits, even if the reserve shows up. The Kzinti will be hard pressed to take SB 0404, especially if the reserve shows up. The Kzinti also sent a pile of ships to attack Klingon held planet 1506, but the don't have enough there to realistically take it, or even pin the reserve there.

On the Fed/Klingon front, the Feds have send about 90 SEQ to attack Klingon held planet 1910; the Klingons have over 100 SEQ defending it. The Feds are also attacking planet 2214. The Feds still have about 80 ships sitting on planet 2811, which can reach the (well defended) SBs in 2916, or planet 2214 (which is only defended by a handful of FFs, but might be something the Feds want to sit on).

At this point, the front line of the war has become the Klingon/Fed Neutral zone; the Feds aren't yet able to actually hit anything inside of Klingon space, but it is only a matter of time.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, August 09, 2019 - 07:55 am: Edit

AT29

Moves are done and reserves have shown up!

On the Hydran front, there are 5 fights. 2 are mobs beating up province raiders that the Hydrans will win, 1 is a Klingon reserve saving some province raiders. The Hydrans will recapture planet 0519 from a Lyran battle line, and then there are a billion Hydrans attacking SB 0411. The Lyrans have a reasonable defense fleet, but the Hydrans can certainly kill it if they want to take damage.

On the Kzinti front, 10 fights. 5 of them are beating up province raiders; the Kzinti will take back planets 1802 and 1105; a Klingon reserve will ensure that the Klingons hold on to planet 1504, the Kzinti are attacking planet 1506, but wil likely be repulsed. The Kzinti sent about 61 SEQ to attack SB 0404; the Lyrans sent a reserve to defend it, so there are now 50+ Lyran SEQ at the SB, vastly reducing the Kzinti's chances. It is likely that the Kzinti attacked here specifically to get the reserve there instead of 0411, which, well, worked, as without the reserve at 0404, the Kzinti had a chance to kill the SB, and the Hydrans can kill 0411 regardless of what is defending it.

On the Fed/Klingon front, there are 9 fights. 6 are mobs beating up province raiders or planet garrisons that will see the Fed recapturing planets 2106, 2306, 2214, and 2610; about 90 Feds are attacking planet 1910, where 100 Klingons have been reinforced by Klingon and Lyran reserves, so it is likely the Klingons will hold this planet (but the Feds are going to certainly take 2214, which is almost as bad). A Lyran reserve is saving some province raiders in 2514. There is likely a pinning action on planet 2812 (vs the B10 fleet, which is huge).

On the Fed/Romulan front, there are 10 fights. 7 are beating up province raiders; there is a fight between 2 Coalition reserves, a reasonable Fed fleet, and the refugees from a deep strike last turn in the South of Fed space; a Romulan reserve saving some province raiders; the Feds retaking planet 3210 from a small garrison.

In Gorn space, there are 9 fights. 8 of them are beating up province raiders, and there is the bi-annual skirmish over Romulan planet 4705.

I'm counting 43 battle hexes; the majority of them are "a FF dies and we run" fights (although a good chunk of those will be "a SN tries to cloak out, if it fails, it dies..." actions); a few are roughly even 4 ship groups that will fight a round, something will be crippled, and one side will run; it is not impossible that a Lyran SB will explode this turn.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Friday, August 09, 2019 - 05:15 pm: Edit

And so the Alliance strikes back.. sigh. Has to be them •••• meddling Vulcans

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, August 10, 2019 - 08:55 am: Edit

AT29

Combat is well under way.

In Hydran space, the Hydrans killed a few small ships, took back planet 0519, and are currently deciding what to do over SB 0411.

In Kzinti space, the Kzinti have killed a few small ships, took back planets 1105 and 1802, were repulsed from planet 1504, are fighting over planer 1506, and are deciding what to do over SB 0404.

On the Fed/Romulan front, lots of little Romulan ships have exploded; I'm currently at 10 and 9 for cloaked evasion rolls (i.e. about 50-50)--9 dead Romulan FFs so far this turn (although a few of those were the result of me having badly spread out ships where I ended up with, like, 2KR, SEH in a hex, and not wanting to risk the KR to a failed cloak roll). The Feds have also taken back planets 3210 and 3306.

The Gorn have also killed a bunch of little Romulans due to failed cloaked evasions, recaptured planets 4903 and 5004, and are fighting over planet 4705. The Gorn have a lot of CV groups, a lot of fighters, and X ships, so this one might go for a while.

Plenty of combat to go, including potentially 2SB fights.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, August 11, 2019 - 09:04 am: Edit

AT29

The first pile of combats are mostly wrapping up.

In Hydran space, the Hydrans blinked and decided to not actually attack SB 0411.

In Kzinti space, the Kzinti fought for a few rounds over planet 1506, then fighting retreated over some ships in 1405, killing an E4 in a drive by.

The Gorn are currently tenaciously fighting over planet 4705; both sides have lost all the X ships they had in the hex, and now the Gorn are burning through their copious number of fighters.

So far, the Coalition have lost 25 ships and the Alliance have lost 11.

There are still about 10 fights left, some of which are huge (SB 0404, which probably won't be a fight; 1910 which has the potential to be a protracted fight, 2812 which has the same potential).

By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Sunday, August 11, 2019 - 09:55 am: Edit

this is a necro-post, kinda.

i was looking through old posts (looking at coalition vs alliance builds), and noticed peter's comment about CT29 raid phase.

now, im semi retired from f&e and my brain is trashed anyhow, but i think i recall a clarificatta to the effect of "defender retreating from the first round of combat in a raid phase doesn't preclude the raider getting that one round of combat against a target of its choice", which IF TRUE (dont bet the farm) makes the DNL/CPX a whole lot meaner. it stuck in my mind (or, again, i had a paranoid fantasy) because of the significance with LGEs early in the game.

i searched unsuccessfully but if anyone wants to try, i think it was part and parcel of Chuck nuking Richard's APT exploit.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, August 11, 2019 - 10:17 am: Edit

I never used any sort of APT eploit but perhaps I used it as an argument for a ruling discussion?

In any case if a raided player declines the reaction battle, the raider can then use the special attack option to strike at a single target in a hex as to the rules on this subject.

By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Sunday, August 11, 2019 - 11:43 am: Edit

maybe exploit is an objectionable word, but i recall your putting APTs in province holding forces, coughing up the APT and retreating. my recollection is that THAT got double-killed; the APT couldn't be the battle force AND the single combat resolved before the retreat

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, August 11, 2019 - 12:13 pm: Edit

There are no APTs in this game.

If a raider attacks a hex that has ships in it, as far as I can tell, there is a "reaction battle" (314.244) (which is completely optional for the defender) and then the possible "alternative attack" (314.28) of attacking a single unit in the hex. If the defender declines the "reaction battle", you just get in a fight with a single ship in the hex; if the defenders accept the reaction battle, all of them get to fight (via 314.244) and then get to retreat, as far as I can tell.

So if there are multiple ships in the hex, they can accept the "reaction battle", fight a round, and then retreat. If there is one ship in the hex, it can either accept the reaction battle and then retreat, or just be the target of the attack and then retreat. I think the only time you get to fight *twice* in a raid (unless the defender decides to let you) is against an immobile/slow target that can't retreat?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, August 11, 2019 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Chris: I don't recall ever doing such a thing. I think you either have confused me with someone else (I vaguely recall this being debated sometime ago) or perhaps you misrecall a theoretical situation that I used for argument with an actual use of such a tactic (which I don't recall ever doing).

Before I *would* use such a tactic, I'd definitely try to get it confirmed as viable in official Q&A as it definitely doesn't feel like something that is intended as a use for APTs and such.