How Many Fleet Repair Docks Does It Take?
Ted Fay
USS Texas

It is a well known Coalition strategy to repair as many ships as possible and send them back against the Alliance in order to reduce the Alliance defenses as quickly as possible. However, available repair capacity, especially available repair capacity in range of Alliance targets, is always an issue. While it is sometimes undesirable to send cripples to deeper bases for repair, as doing so requires more than one turn for the repair cycle, FRDs are expensive units at 10 EPs each. If you built just 5 extra FRDs you spend 50 EPs, which could have overbuilt 10 FFs for valuable extra pincount. So, how many FRDs do you need? The answer, of course, is "it depends." It depends on your strategy and how many carriers you build.

However, as a rule of thumb it is generally a good idea to attack the Alliance as aggressively as possible to reduce them as fast as possible. Time is not on your side, as if the Federation ultimately gets its production rolling you will likely end up on the losing side of a long game of attrition. Thus, assume you do not have the time needed to build up enough carriers for sufficient damage absorption and assume you're going to be repairing many cripples quickly.

Experience indicates that a typical final capital assault will build up somewhere in the range of 200-300 repair capacity that needs to be provided. Given the need to repair ships at minor outlying battles, assume your maximum repair capacity that needs to be provided in a single turn is 300.

However, in order to take advantage of the conversion cost break you get from performing "conversion during repair," and your ongoing need for specialty hulls, assume that you *want* to delay repairing certain hulls in order to send them to starbases for conversion. Prime candidates for conversion include the Klingon D6 (which can be converted into many useful hulls), the Klingon D7 (which should be converted into D7Cs at a minimum), the Lyran CA (many good conversions, including the DN), the Lyran DW (excellent for conversion to DWS to use in battle groups on the line for electronic warfare dominance), and some Lyran CLs (converted to BCs).

If you pull these units out of the general cripple stack, in anticipation of sending them to distant starbases for simultaneous repair and conversion, you will reduce the total repair capacity you need on one turn. Again, the total reduction in needed repair capacity varies, but experience suggests that the number of ships you will send back for repair is on the order of the number of starbases you have available for conversion, perhaps between equal to and double that number to account for the fact that some starbases can make multiple conversions and some conversions are so valuable that you will be willing to wait one extra turn to repair a ship. As a rough estimate, assume you can make 1.25 conversions per starbase. Repair of these valuable units is between 3 and 4 capacity, so assume an average of 3.5 capacity per ship sent to a SB. Thus, the repair capacity held back is 1.25*3.5*10 (the number of SBs the Coalition initially has) = 43.75 repair capacity held back. Round this number to 50 for ease of calculation. That means, if you want to repair all of your ships immediately after a major capital assault turn you will probably need 300-50 = 250 repair capacity.

But don't count your FRDs yet. Some existing repair capacity will be close enough to the capital assault. Typically about 2-6 BATS will be in range of the theater (assume 4 ). Also, you can build a PRD at, say 1407, to save some cost. You may also have built a SB within range of the theater (e.g., it's typical for the Lyrans to build a SB at 1407), and there's usually at least one Coalition SB in range of the theater. Four BATS, a PRD, and a SB provide 44 more repair capacity. That brings your needed capacity down to 206.

So how many FRDs are needed? 206/12 = 17.2, roughly. Assuming you're willing to reduce your repair cycle for a few ships, or want to use your depot somewhat, 15-17 FRDs in all is enough to turn around a whole fleet of cripples in a single turn.

The Coalition starts with 5 (3 Klingon, 2 Lyran). Though some don't start released, we're talking about a major need after a serious capital assault - which is not likely to happen before turn 4 of the general war. That means you need to build 10-12 FRDs.

If the Klingons and Lyrans *each* build one FRD per turn, and assuming you can keep the Alliance from killing any of your FRDs, you will complete your needed set by turns 5 or 6 - a goal which is quite doable. By turn 6 you should be attacking your first or maybe even your second capital assault.

After that, you should not need to build more FRDs. You will have the capacity you need. Be sure to build an LTT each turn they become available so that you have plenty of tugs needed to move them to where they are needed.

Note that the investment of 100-120 EPs for 10-12 FRDs is not wasted in the mid to late game when you do not need that much repair capacity. By marrying an FRD to a convoy you have a mobile retrograde point and supply point. If you add a tug acting as a supply point, you also have a strategic movement node. Even if exposed, because you have so many FRDs , you can afford to lose a few for some short term strategic gains.

Note that your mileage may vary. Pay attention to what actually happens in a game. Odds are decent you will need fewer than 17 FRDs. Don't build more than you actually anticipate needing in your particular game. For example, if you get to turn 5 and it's apparent that 15 FRDs will do the trick, then don't build them on turn 6.

Thus, the rule of thumb is that both the Klingons and the Lyrans should build 1 FRD per turn through turn 5. Then evaluate whether you need another pair on turn 6. It is unlikely you will need more on turn 7, but think about it if you, say, plan on attacking the Tholians on turn 10.

The point here is to treat the question of how many FRDs to build from a quantitative and strategic perspective, which means assessing how much repair capacity you think you're going to need to rapidly turn around most of your cripples. Note that it's tempting to want to overbuild a fleet of 24 FFs for that same 120 EPs, but consider that by returning 50 or more ships to the front IMMEDIATELY each turn you are probably maintaining a greater pincount superiority in the short term. Do not discount this short term pincount superiority, as it allows you to constrict the Alliance more quickly, reduce the number of ships they can afford to produce, and generally prosecute the war more aggressively. The Coalition cannot afford to wait; waiting plays into the hands of the Alliance.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 12:42 pm: Edit

Thomas, thank you.

Kill Lyran DDs
Revision 1
Ted Fay
USS Texas

This tac note is the flipside of "The Lyran DD: A Diamond in the Rough".

If you are playing Alliance during the general war campaign, and the Lyran player puts up a DD on the line, consider killing it with directed damage. Of course, do not make this decision blindly, as tactical and strategic circumstances can dictate the wisdom of directing and the wisdom of directing on an available target. Sometimes you really need to kill that mauler threatening Kzintai Major.

However, killing a Lyran DD only requires 16 damage points, as opposed to, say 28 damage points for killing a more valuable Lyran STT or CC, or a Klingon D6M. By killing a Lyran DD, you prevent that DD from growing up to an NCA in Y174 or an NCC in Y175 when the Lyran player gains the ability to use a minor conversion to convert DDs to NCAs. Killing DDs in the early game limits the total number of cruiser hulls that will be ultimately available to the Lyran player, helps prevent higher Lyran compot lines later, is likely to cause more damage to the Lyran player by using fewer damage points to kill ships, and still reduces the Lyran player's total pin count.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 12:59 pm: Edit

That's too many FRDs imo. While it's nice to do 200 points of repair all at once, the EP cost for this is high and may not be available.

Half as many FRDs will let you repair the more critical units and the money saved can be used for other things, perhaps more carriers to reduce damage taken in the long term, or overbuilds to increase pin count, or minor shipyards or PDUs for defense or more DD->CW conversions early on (or DD->NCA or D7->D7C...).

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 01:06 pm: Edit

How Many Mobile Bases Do You Need
Ted Fay
USS Texas

When playing Coalition during the General War, you should determine before you begin play how many MBs you are going to need. If you are going to need them later, you should then build them early when you have fewer demands on your economy.

The Klingons start with 4 MBs and the Lyrans start with 3. Ignore the Romulans for now, as they do not come into the game until turn 10.

Of course, how many you need depends on your strategy. If you want to eventually build a line of Lyran MBs that will stretch all the way to Gorn space through Romulan space you will need at least 8 to stretch the main Lyran supply grid all the way to the Gorn capital. If you want to build an extra starbae over the Lyran capital for additional major conversion capacity, a starbase over 1407 to support the Kzinti campaign, and a starbase over 617 after you kick the Hydrans off of YOUR planets there, then you're going to need 11 mobile bases just for the Lyrans! That means buying 8 more for 80 EPs.

However, 80 EPs is a lot of cash that could have been sent to the Klingons to produce and repair ships. So, maybe just send an expeditionary force of Lyrans to the Gorn campaign.

The real question is where do you NEED extra bases? Do you NEED to send large Lyran fleets to the Gorn border eventually, or are those Lyran units better served containing the Lyrans and Hydrans while the Klingons and Romulans do that dirty work.

Overall, you are better served minimizing the number of MBs you build, as each one is expensive. As much as possible rely on either your existing supply grid or conquered planets to provide supply.

If you use conquered planets to provide supply, you need *zero* more MBs to prosecute the war. The Klingons can connect supply to the Romulans with just one - and they start with 4.

Good candidates for the Lyrans to deploy MBs are 1401 (for exchanges with the Klingon capital), 1013 (to support the initial stages of the Hydran campaign), 1407 or some other hex in the Kzinti theater (if you want to build a SB to support Lyran operations against the Kzinti), and 617 (to support an occupational force keeping the Hydrans at bay). Thus, at most, you will need to build ONE MB for the Lyrans.

The Klingons need only one to connect to the Romulans, and maybe one more to occupy 617. You probably do not need two SBs at 617. If so, then the Lyrans do not need a SB there.

If you plan on conquering the Gorns for a three capital knockout, the Klingons will need at least four total MBs to support a supply chain through Romulan space. That would be all four of your starting MBs.

From the above, you can probably get away with building ZERO more MBs, maybe just 1 more total for either the Klingons or Lyrans. Knowing this ahead of time will help you save EPs by not building MBs you don't NEED.

The Romulans are in a similar position, but they likely *need* no MBs deployed. Thus, they can make do with the three they start with.

Of course, your mileage may vary with your strategy, but you are probably better off staying within your starting number of MBs and building no more or maybe just one more.

In any case, think about how many MBs you are going to NEED for your strategy. If you need more than you start with, then build them early in the General War when you have fewer strains on your economy.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 01:59 pm: Edit

Note that you can get to the Gorn capital with just 3 Lyran MB if you give them 5 nz planets to build the chain.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 02:02 pm: Edit

You forgot to talk about Alliance MBs. :p

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Heh, no point. They're useless. Except as surprise supply points - but you already pointed that out in another topic. So that one is your tac note!

By Timothy Linden (Timlinden) on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 04:01 pm: Edit

Re: The Lyran DD - the Lyrans get 1 CA build per turn, not year.

Re: How Many FRD's? - my answer is zero (i.e don't build any more). You can spend the money instead on field repair - 10 ep spent on a FRD would pay for 20 repair points of field repair (as you already have to pay the 0.5 regardless - it is just 0.5 more per repair point for field repair). You only want a bunch of extra FRD's for when you have a big backlog after a capital assault - just max your field repair out instead for those turns.

You can also just in the major battles lose a few more ships and use that salvage for field repair as well. Doing both can actually help maintain your in theatre SE's better than crippling everything. The coalition can do this as they have a significant SE advantage - they can somewhat afford to spend some SE doing this. The alliance not so much...

In addition, rotating many ships back may delay their return to combat, but that is something that happens only early on - once you are doing this regularly, you get a steady stream of ships coming back to the front, which also are all arriving by strategic movement, not just operational from fixed points. Which can let shift SE's to help counter any unexpected changes easier.

It would be interesting if your tacnote mentioned this option, and why you feel spending on FRD's better. (I mainly started doing this as I got tired of my FRD's getting killed when I could not place them in safe but useful locations often enough).

Tim Linden.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 04:54 pm: Edit

Tim,

Buying 10-12 more FRDs may be excessive, as Richard pointed out - but my main point is to be quantitative about building them.

I don't see field repair as being effective for overcoming the massive cripple backlog after a major capital assault. First, you only get 24 repair capacity per empire, so your only repair 48 of your 250-300 repair need. Second, self-killing is probably self-defeating. The Coalition needs to preserve its pincount as much as possible, IMO.

Rotating your cripples into deep bases takes something like 20-50 ships in a semi-permanent "offline" state for several turns while you work them through and generate new cripples. Having gone through *many* games like this as the Coalition, I have found that doing so leaves me with a dearth of pincount needed to *really* control the Kzinti and Hydran. The resulting delay makes the game more challenging for the Coalition, I think.

As for not being able to protect my FRDs, I generally don't have a problem doing that. Just maintain a large FRD park in striking range of the prime enemy target (usually the homeworld) and maintain sufficient pincount there to prevent the possibility of any incursion. This can be done more easily if you're repairing the bulk of your cripples every turn.

I think the best criticism I've seen so far is Richard's - which is that you may not have the EPs to repair 250 capacity in one turn. However, 125 EPs is divided between the Klingons and Lyrans, so my assessment is that it *is* possible if you give it priority. It might be that an extra 6-8 FRDs is enough, but I'm going to let the tac note stand for now and then try to put into practice in my next Coalition game.

-T

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Using FRDs as (disposable) forward retrograde points has uses and you'll probably want to build at least a few to do this.

Also, the use of Lyran FRDs can act as a sort of way to transfer EPs to the Klingons, so its not terrible to build a few.

You play any other people yet Timothy or are all your games still solo?

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 08:05 pm: Edit

The other problem with those extra FRDs is what is being given up to pay for them. While the Lyrans usually have 10 spare EP sitting around, their options are an FRD, MB, PDU, or overbuilding (DW or CW) - [hmmm, their 4th DIP is also 10 EP and can earn from the Fed or Gorn or go to 1910 to play games]. The Klingons on the other hand, after their usual subs, activations and conversions are drained and may have to place some of their lower priority items back on the shelf (and if they want to increase the commercial convoy payout, that's another 28 EP).

So it looks like its up to the Lyrans for early FRDs...

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 11:12 am: Edit

I'd like to add a caveat. I don't think any one tactic is ever a sure-fire path to victory. If it was, the game would be broken.

That being said, I think it's interesting and I'm willing to give it (extra FRDs) a try in a new game, once I get to it.

F&E is always a game of give and take with your EPs. Like I've said before, it's kind of like a Venn diagram of competing priorities. You need to try to find the sweet spot for your strategy.

One last little comment. We've got a dearth of tac notes. So I've been thinking about little things I do during a game, or thinking outside the box altogether, and trying to come up with decent tac notes. I want to keep a pool available for SVC to keep publishing in future Captain's Logs!

So, everyone! Get to writing! Put down your favorite F&E tricks here!

-T

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 11:13 am: Edit

Fixes a typo where I said Lyran CA build is one per year (vice per turn). My thanks to Timothy Linden for catching that. Added a sentence too about how to make preserving your DDs a bit easier.

The Lyran DD: A Diamond in the Rough
Revision 1
Ted Fay
USS Texas

The Lyrans always have problems producing enough heavy cruiser hull types, as they are limited to one such hull type per turn as production (2 once the NCA hulls come online in Y174). However, if you adjust your damage absorption and conversion strategies early game, you can preserve as many of your DDs as possible for conversion to NCA variants.

Early in the midgame of the General war, starting in Y174 (turn 12), you can start converting your DDs into NCAs. Starting in Y175 you can start converting them into NCCs, NMCs, NCFs, and NSRs. In Y176 you can convert them into NCVs, NTGs and the excellent NSC scout. In Y178 you can convert them into NPFs, NSVs, and NDS. Note that some of these conversions will not be available if you are playing without some of the game expansions.

The base DD->NCA conversion, while expensive at 5 EPs, is still a minor conversion. That means that when Y174 rolls around, you can convert many of your DDs each turn at some or all of your starbases. Thus, you can convert your DDs into a lot of high quality cruisers very quickly.

Of course, you will still need battle group capable ships. However, by turn 12 you should have built up enough DWs and their variants to fill that battle group role. By converting DDs to NCCs and better, and using DWs in your battle groups, you can substantially increase the combat potential of your battle lines, which increases damage to the enemy and reduces the damage you take by forcing the enemy to withdraw more quickly.

To maximize the effectiveness of this plan, you can make some minor adjustments to your early game damage absorption strategy and conversion strategy. Try to send your DDs into combat against lone or under-defended BATS and planets early in the game so that the DDs are used and take damage in low compot battles where the enemy is unable or unwilling to direct upon them. While you can use your DDs in larger battles, do not self-kill one when the “required kill” rule is in effect. Do not self-kill DDs for a short term gain. In situations where the enemy will be likely to direct, and the battle is not important, consider using FFs on the line instead of DDs. You lose only 3 combat potential, but preserve your DDs. Finally, do not convert your DDs to other variants, or do so sparingly. Thus, when Y174 (turn 12) rolls around, you can start rapidly converting your DDs to NCAs (and starting in Y175, some of their variants).

By Timothy Linden (Timlinden) on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 04:10 pm: Edit

Note that field repair is 24, but also + 8 for a tug assigned to that role, and the Lyrans can also use one jagdpanther as a half field repair toy. Which is 68 field repair in one turn. That won't fix everything, but if you do let some ships die in the capital assault, you can repair lots of the cripples and just rotate out some of the rest (on to bases or the FRD's you do have/etc.)

FRD's are still better - I just don't as I kept losing them. But as you mentioned, crippling most everything instead of taking some losses can then be a problem holding stuff and having too large a backlog.

I also have generally not had any significant issues with ship losses over a capital. Losing 50 (now ~60) mostly CW/DW/F5 ships over the Kzinti and Hydran capitals (each) is eminently acceptable losses. The coalition has the ship count advantage to burn and taking a capital is by far the best expenditure of SE's.

I think one reason I have less issues than many is that by building oodles of lyran DN's the coalition tends not to have as much problem taking and holding things, as well as just not being as easily attritioned. Especially after you force the Hydrans offmap.

Richard - not recently, but the first 4 full games I played were against real opponents. And the first 6 turns of the 5th. Those were all pre-2K games. The last 4 (or 5, lost count) were solo. The overall high level strategies and results generally held over all the games. Just the details (for the most part) varied.

The few locals (the plural may be a bit too strong here...) I know don't have time, and I do not really either much anymore (and I generally much prefer face to face games).

Tim Linden.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 04:20 pm: Edit

Tim, if you're ever up for learning Cyberboard (it's easy) I can play a PBEM game with you. Combined with an online roller and the ability to trade game files that show all moves back and forth it works out great. Add dropbox and it is very smooth. Not as good as FTF, obviously, but it does work quite well with just a few agreed-upon house rules for handling simultaneous stuff. The good thing about it is that you can work on it when you have time on your own terms, and obviously you can do it separated even by continents.

-T

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 09:04 pm: Edit

See reply in F*E General Discussion Thread

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 09:04 pm: Edit

Deleted by author. Duplicate post.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, June 24, 2019 - 08:36 pm: Edit

PETRICK:

If you have downloaded these file in Feb 2019, then may we move those submissions and files prior to 1 Feb 2019 to the delete file?

Thanks,
FEDS

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - 05:47 am: Edit

Everything prior to my 9 Feb 19 post was graded for Captain's Log #53. So they were copied from this topi.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 - 04:46 pm: Edit

The Klingon E3: Still Worth It
Ted Fay
USS Texas

In the 2016 update to Fighter Operations, the Klingons exchange 7 E4 hulls for E3 hulls (5 in East fleet, 2 in West fleet) and also receive 9 E3 hulls in mothballs. However, on Coalition Turn #10 the Klingon player must send all E3s to the police (removed from the map). Alternatively, the Klingon player may either 1) pay a 2.5 EP penalty for each E3 hull that remains on the map, or that was previously destroyed, or 2) send an E4 or larger hull to the police on a hull-for-hull basis (removed from the map). The Klingon player may choose to keep some of the E3 hulls on map, but not others (though destroyed E3s must be accounted for).

At first glance, it may not seem worth it to activate the E3s or keep them. The E3 hull is obsolete and ineffective at the time of the general war, in view of the E4 (33% stronger, uncrippled) or the far more effective F5 (67% stronger, uncrippled). If one were to keep all E3 hulls, and activate them all, then on turn #10 the Klingon player would end up paying 9 (activations) plus 40 (16 E3 hulls), or 49 EPs for the privilege of 9 total extra hulls over the original order of battle and to prevent the loss of 7 original order of battle hulls. Averaged over 16 E3 hulls, that is just over 3 EPs per hull, which is more expensive than the E4 for a less effective ship. If one simply looked at activating the 9 E3 hulls and paying to keep them, then the cost is 3.5 EPs per E3 hull for a ship that is less effective than the E4. The Klingon player may want those 49 EPs to pay for repairs for more worthy combat ships, or simply to overbuild better quality ships.

However, the Klingon player needs as many hulls he or she can get for pure pincount (within reason). For example, it is common practice in F&E that small groups of 2-4 picket ships are used to occupy conquered Alliance provinces and planets. Often the Coalition player cannot be strong *everywhere*, so the Alliance player will strike to kill small groups of pickets. A combination of reaction, followed by judicious use of the withdrawal before combat and flag and line selection rules, can often reduce the hemorrhaging of picket ships by offering up a single small ship as a "sacrifice" to put on the line, while the rest of the ships (up to 7 of them) retreat in the face of an overwhelming Alliance advantage. Over the course of the game, this hemorrhaging of "sacrifice" ships can substantially negatively affect the Coalition pincount.

In many games, such hemorrhaging of pin count can be managed but not eliminated. So, if you're going to lose picket ships, then arrange to have an E3 hull in each group of picket ships. Pay careful attention to the flag selection rules and the withdrawal before combat rules so that you know, ahead of time, that you can legally offer up that E3 as the (rather unsatisfying) sacrificial lamb to the Alliance war gods.

However, remember that you are *losing* 7 hulls over the original OOB (which previously listed E4 hulls for East and West fleet). Thus, if you do not pay, you really are losing 16 hulls, and that is a lot at a time when you 1) need pickets to hold the vast Federation territory and 2) are beginning to bleed pickets more quickly because you are holding more territory.

The cost of overbuilding 7*E4 to replace the original OOB losses is 7*5 = 35 EPs. The penalty is only 7*2.5 = 17.5 EPs. Thus, it's better to pay the penalty and keep the hulls, which are still highly useful as picket sacrifices.

The cost of activating and keeping an E3 is 3.5 EPs, which is obviously not ideal given it's ineffectiveness. The overall cost of keeping all 9 activated E3 hulls is 3.5*9=31.5 EPs. However, the cost of overbuilding 9*E4 = 5*9 = 45 EPs.

Sure, for 13.5 more EPs you get the more effective E4s. However, unless you are not holding a lot of Alliance territory, you are still going be bleeding pickets - which are now E4s instead of the E3s. Thus, you might as well pick the E3s as sacrifices, which remain cheaper than an overbuilt E4.

Bottom line: Activate and keep all E3 hulls. While they're not much use in combat, you need the pincount, and they're still good for use as sacrificial lambs in picket battles or one-round battles.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, October 21, 2019 - 09:20 pm: Edit

Colonizing Your Way to the Win
Thomas Mathews
USS Georgia

While the end of game determination may or may not be changed in the future, you can do something to help your cause regardless of what happens. Build colonies. Build them early, and build them often. While you don’t need to build them when you get to turn 30, you want to build them to accomplish two different, but mutually compatible things. First, each colony you build and protect until the end of the game produces two victory points under (603.3). Second, each colony you build and protect provides you with a supply of EPs until the game ends. Those EPs produced during the game can help you build that extra base or ship you need to keep your capital from being captured. Proper protection of these new colonies, both by distance and by extra defenses can force your opponent into thinking it might be better to destroy these colonies rather than devastating your capital.

By Karl Mangold (Karlsolomon) on Saturday, November 30, 2019 - 09:07 am: Edit

Ted-
I'm a bit confused by your assertion that Lyrans should save their DDs for later conversion to NCAs. NCAs are direct conversions from CWs, whereas the DD to NCA is essentially a 2-step conversion. While DDs have limited utility later in the game, there are plenty of CWs around that can be converted to NCAs. Realistically, its probably more CWs that will be converted. I mean, yeah if you have a lot of DDs lying around at that point, you might as well spend the money to upgrade to NCAs.
Thomas-
The limitation to colony development is what you're building them with. Realistically its Tugs or Convoys, and tugs are valuable and convoys expensive for the purpose. While I agree with you in principle, the logistics of pulling this off are difficult.
Just my (devil's advocate) 2 cents.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Saturday, November 30, 2019 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Karl,

True, CW->NCA is cheaper. However, CWs are still useful in battle groups in mid-game, so having plenty of those to absorb damage is useful. With DWs filling out the SC4 ships in the BG (for more compot), the DDs are less useful, so they can be converted into the more useful variants.

Note, I don't claim that this is the only good thing to do, it's just an interesting take that could be useful.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Saturday, November 30, 2019 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Actually, the Lyran DD/NCA is a one-step conversion, replacing the DD 'bridge' with an NCA center hull, it just costs more (yea - Lyran lego system!) …

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 08:28 pm: Edit

To Convert A Ship to a Larger Hull Or Not?
Thomas Mathews
USS Georgia

Many Lyran players convert their FFs to DWs and DWSs starting from Turn 1 and continue this process throughout the game. In addition to these conversions there are the DD to CW or NCA, CL to BC and CA to DN conversions. The Gorns may do the much the same with their DD to BD, HD to CM, and CL to BC/CC conversions. The Kzintis are a little more limited in that may do the same with their CVL to CVS/BCV or BC to CVS/BCH/BCV conversions but not with their FF, DD or CL hulls. All the other empires except the Tholians can convert CWs to NCAs. While larger ships are better at providing compot and absorbing damage the cost may not be worth the conversion. Consider that the Lyrans can convert a maximum of 5 FFs to DW or DW variant on a given turn that they have an FF at each starbase, more once they have built their minor and major conversion facilities (450.12), before they build any FFs. Assuming each FF is converted to a DW, no variant, this is 3 EPs this can total 15 EPs a turn. DD to CW and CW to NCA are also 3 EPs each. In the above cases the 3 EPs buy you 3 points of extra damage to kill the ship and an increase of 2 for command purposes. Conversions of CWs to NCCs are a little better as you get an increase of 3 vs 2 for command purposes. You also increase the cost to repair said ships. The newly converted DW now cost 1.5 to repair vs 1 for the original FF hull. Conversions to carriers also require more planning as you more than likely need to provide escorts for those carriers to participate in combat.

The conversion of ships that become a command rating 9 or 10 ship make practical sense when you need another command ship in a given sector or to command a reserve fleet. Spending EPs to get more compot is not always the wisest way to spend your EPs. You never know when you will need to upgrade a base, or add PDUs to a colony previously thought to be safe from attack.

NOTE: Some conversions maybe limited to 1 per turn or 1 per year by other rules not listed above. Always check the rules for such limitations before spending EPs.