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AT11

Raids have happened, and moves are underway!

In the Raid phase, the Hydrans attacked a group of small Klingons in the East edge of ex-Hydran space, killing an F5, E4 (rolled a 12) and crippling another pair of E4s with a couple THR raiders. The Kzinti and Feds managed to disrupt 4 provinces, seeing one Fed DNL chased off by a brave Klingon POL.

In Hydran space, the Hydrans are going to liberate the Capital and planet 0718, are pinning the Lyrans at SB 0411, and capturing some Southern Lyran provinces. The Hydrans could have theoretically rushed the Coalition staging area/FRD park in 0815, but they have 100+ ships there, so seemed dicey.

In Kzinti space, the Kzinti are leaving alone most of the Coalition at the edges of Kzinti space, and just piled a huge number of ships on the Lyran SB in 1403. The Lyrans have about 50 ships in the hex; the Kzinti have dropped about 160 SEQ, including all their Auxes, into the hex. They also left some stacks of 8 ships in 1404 and 1504, blocking the one possible reserve that could reinforce the SB.

On the Fed/Klingon front, the Feds are hitting planet 2106 with about 20 ships, facing a handful of small Klingons and a possible reserve, and are attacking a few province raider hexes so far. The 3rd Fleet at SB 2211 is huge and hasn't moved yet.

On the Fed/Romulan front, the Feds are attacking some province raiders, and sent some ships to possibly liberate planet 3612 so far. Plenty of ships left to move.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 - 11:14 am: Edit

AT11

Moves mostly seem to be close to wrapping up.

In Hydran space, the Hydrans are just liberating the Capital and planet 0718, pinning Lyrans at SB 0411, and capturing some Lyran provinces. A few ships that could still move, but not much.

In Kzinti space, the Kzinti are only engaging SB 1304 with the vast majority of their fleet, and have some ships blocking potential reserve movement to the SB.

On The Fed/Klingon front, the Feds are likely liberating planet 2106, possibly killing some province raiders, and are attacking south, with a large force at BATS 2215 (pinning an equally large force); a smaller force at BATS 2416 (pinning an equally smaller force), and a handful of ships attacking planet 2216. The Klingons have 2 reserves that can mostly just reach the attacks on province raiders and planet 2106.

On the Fed/Romulan front, the Feds are also attacking south, engaging numerous small groups of ships on the SE border. They still have a bunch of ships to move.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, July 08, 2021 - 09:39 am: Edit

AT11

Moves are done, reserves are deployed, and combat is underway!

In Hydran space, 3 battle hexes. The Hydrans will reclaim the Capital (but are unlikely to attempt to keep it on CT12), planet 0718, and offer an approach over SB 0411.

In Kzinti space, only 1 battle hex, where the bulk of their fleet is attacking SB 1304. The Lyrans have about 50 SEQ there, but nothing super impressive and not many fighters. They'll get to retreat over a pile of FFs that were blocking a Klingon reserve, and probably kill, like, 4 of them, however.

On the Fed/Klingon front, 7 battle hexes. The Feds will reclaim planet 2106 with limited resistance, will devastate Klingon planet 2216, may or may not fight over BATS 2215 and 2416, will probably kill a province raider in hexes 2113 and 2716, and are in a disadvantaged open space fight in 2109 where a slightly sub optimal line that was attacking province raiders caught the attention of both mobile Klingon reserves.

On the Fed/Romulan front, 7 battle hexes. The Feds managed to pin enough ships to get a modest force to attack BATS 3317, which will go down. They are fighting small groups of ships in hexes 3315, 3414, 3415, and 3612 where the Feds are generally advantaged, and will probably see a lot of cloaked evasion, but they might actually fight over the 2 captured planets, as the Feds don't have significant advantages. The Feds are outgunned at BATS 3516, now that a reserve showed up, and the Romulans sent a reserve to beat up a small Fed force attacking province raiders in 3412 with a reserve, presumably just to get some ships inside of Fed space.

Battle to commence!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, July 08, 2021 - 01:32 pm: Edit

AT11

Oops! Over Lyran SB 1304, I missed that there were 4LAV and 3SAV (they were in a fleet box that I thought was all cripples, although I certainly noticed them when counting to pin the hex already). On the upside, that means I'll get to kill some auxes. On the downside, that means that the Lyrans have another 66 fighters to burn up to take damage on.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, July 09, 2021 - 08:37 am: Edit

AT11

Combat is underway. In Hydran space, nothing unexpected happened--they Hydrans liberated planet 0718 and the Capital, just killing some FFs for their trouble (both hexes were held by token 8 or fewer ship forces); over SB 0411, the Lyrans fought the mandatory approach, both sides lost an FF, and the Hydrans retreated (I figure the Lyrans were more inclined to kill a CU than not, on the grounds that the Hydrans are currently without a shipyard).

On the Fed/Klingon front, the Federation sucessfully devastated planet 2216 (the first devastated Coalition planet for this game!), killed an E3 (?!?), took some cripples and fled in 2109, liberated planet 2106 (killing an E4), and are fighting a (likely one round) approach over BATS 2215.

On the Fed/Romulan front, the Feds have liberated/captured planet 3415, lost an FF and ran in hex 3412 (where a reserve showed up), and will probably liberate planet 3612 for a cripple (small forces fighting, but the Feds have a significant edge in compot).

Over Lyran SB 1304, the Lyrans declined the approach, and battle has started over the SB; the Kzinti have about 120 compot with 7 EW, the Lyrans have about 150 compot with 6 EW after dialing the SB down for +1EW. On the first round, the Kzinti rolled a 3, killing an escort FF on the one Lyran CV group and probably killing a bunch of fighters, the Lyrans rolled a 6 for 47 damage, which can score an autokill if they'd like. This might take a while.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Friday, July 09, 2021 - 12:31 pm: Edit

Don't E3's disappear forever before AT11? I think AT11 is Y173S, so they should have scarpered off to civilian life during the Coalition turn, yes?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, July 09, 2021 - 01:09 pm: Edit

The Klingons can either send all the E3s off to a farm upstate on T10, or they can buy all the ones on the map from the Police forces for 2.5 EP each (and are forced to pay 2.5 EPs each for each E3 that started on the map and accidentally got killed). Given that the Klingons often find themselves overbuilding scads of E4s as time goes on, it is generally worth the investment to pay for all the on map E3s (as you are paying 2.5 EP each for 8 or so extra hulls instead of 5 EPs each for extra E4 hulls).

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, July 10, 2021 - 12:03 pm: Edit

AT11

Combat continues.

On the Fed/Klingon front, the Feds fought one round of approach over BATS 2215 and BATS 2416 and then left, but did successfully devastate Klingon planet 2216.

Over on the Romulan side of things, the Feds successfully killed Romulan BATS 3317, killed a few province raiders, are fighting a signle round of approach at BATS 3516 before retreating over another few previously fled province raiders (giving me another chance for a failed cloak roll), and liberated planet 3612.

Over SB 1304, on the first round, the Lyrans rolled a 6, dropped damage, saw an FKE explode, 3 or 4 ships get crippled, and then a bunch of fighters died. On R2, the Kzinti rolled a 6 and dropped 46 damage on the Lyrans, but the Kzinti are taking 53 in return (the Lyrans rolled a 5...). This one looks to get bloody.

Combat continues.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, July 11, 2021 - 09:25 pm: Edit

AT11

Combat is over!

Over Lyran SB 1304, over 6 pretty brutal rounds of combat, the Kzinti mostly dropped damage on the Lyrans, and the Lyrans mostly dropped damage on the Kzinti, but the SB got crippled at the end of R6, and vaporized on R7 after the main fleet retreated, and then the Kzinti slow unit retreated against some remaining Auxes, which got killed also. The Main Lyran force retreated over a blocking force that prevented a reserve from showing up, and they got to kill 3FFs in revenge, but they still lost a SB.

The Kzinti took about 20 cripples, lost 4FF hulls, and lost about 18 fighter squadrons (and still had plenty left). The Lyrans took about 8 cripples, lost 2 small hulls, lost 7 aux CVs (two were Klingons). They could have probably fought longer, but at that point where the battle ended, the Lyrans were out of fighters and down to 1SID on the uncrippled SB, and the Kzinti still had over a dozen full CV groups, another 15+ squadrons to burn, plenty of BG ships to cripple, and any ships that the Lyrans crippled were just going to keep pushing their compot lower and lower, so it seemed a forgone conclusion, at which point they crippled the SB and left.

The dice were insane, with:
ZIN: 3, 6, 5, 4, 4, 4 (4.33)
LYR: 6, 5, 6, 2, 6, 5 (5)

For the 6 rounds of actual fighting. The Lyrans scored (and used) 3 free auto kills; the Kzinti got 1.

Kills for the turn:
-LYR: DWE, 2FF, 3LAV, 2SAV, (SB)
-KLI: D5, F5E, F5, 5E4, E3, (2PDU)
-ROM: SNB, 2K4, SN, (BATS)

-ZIN: 3FKE, SDF, 3FF
-HYD: CU
-FED: 3FF

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 10:12 am: Edit

AT11

The turn is over!

The Hydrans moved most of their fleet, about 80 ships and a gazillion fighters, to SB 0215. The have numerous small groups of ships around the map, about 15 ships holding down the just liberated capital (they'll hold it! they swear!), and 2 anemic reserves off map (3 ships each).

The Kzinti have most of their fleet in the capital (about 100 ships), another 30 ships at planet 1802 (including a full, solid reserve), a reasonable reserve off map, and then scattered handfuls of ships around the map.

On the Fed/Klingon front, the Feds have a giant fleet at SB 2211 (about 100 ships), a smaller fleet at SB 2204 (about 25 ships plus a solid reserve), and then another full reserve at SB 2808.

On the Fed/Romulan front, the Feds have about 50 ships at planet 3210, and then two solid reserves at 3306 and 3706. No Fed reserves on either front can be pinned.

The Feds sent 20 EPs to the Kzinti. The Kzinti have 64 points of repair to fix next turn, but they should be able to cover that and still build.

Map:
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/SCD3AT11end.html

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 10:15 am: Edit

So at this point, it is unclear if the Coalition will attempt to broker a peace agreement. The Alliance is clearly doing pretty well; they have tons of money; the Feds control most of their space at this point and have started making offensive attacks into Coalition space. The Kzinti killed the Coalition SB that was built in their space, and didn't even suffer that much for doing so.

It isn't impossible we'll play a few more turns, but it's up to Jason at this point.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 11:05 am: Edit

It does look grim for the Coalition.

I'm actually kinda hoping the Coalition doesn't surrender. I think more games need to go to completion (i.e. defined game end achieved), especially when the Coalition is on the ropes. It would provide valuable data and experience on the game.

I know it can be hard to play a long term game like F&E after you know you're going to lose - but for myself personally I've resolved to do just that. I'd like to see more games where even the Coalition has to defend against capital assaults.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 12:16 pm: Edit

Firstly - MUST read the entire line before 'raising eyebrows'.

Read - "The 3rd Fleet at SB 2211 is huge and hasn't moved yet. "

as "The SB 2211 is huge and hasn't moved yet."

SB don't move very often I thought!?!


Worth going back through the earlier turns - as it certainly seems the Coalition offensive has stalled for various reasons - and the 1403 Lyran SB dying will open up the Klingon front from 1401.

So honest question is - what went wrong for the Coalition?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 01:18 pm: Edit

I think the biggest issue (and Jason would probably agree) is that the Coalition started as 2 players; one of the players had a plan involving building a SB in Kzinti space in 1304. And then the second player left the game, and Jason wasn't sure what the overall plan was with the SB in 1304, and just kinda wung it from there.

Building/defending the SB took up a lot of ships that ended up not being in Hydran space when it would have been helpful for them to be there, so when Jason then moved on the Hydran Capital first (leaving the Kzinti capital mostly devastated, but the homeworld untouched), the Coalition took a long time to get the Hydran capital.

This is all fine, and we could have just restarted the game at that point, but, well, we didn't, and here we are.

I don't think the Coalition is in an untennable position--I think they could probably get control of the Hydran theatre without a ton of effort; the Kzinti are managable at this point. The Feds are way ahead of where they would usually be at this point, but again, it isn't a completely impossible situation. I think it certainly would be fun to continue at this point, at least for a while, to see how a game goes when the Alliance are doing well. But again, up to Jason. I'm good either way.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 01:54 pm: Edit

>> I think more games need to go to completion

I applaud your sportsmanship!

--Mike

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 02:12 pm: Edit

>> I don't think the Coalition is in an untenable position

By T11, the Hydrans and Kzinti need to have been put away a number of turns ago, and a very strong push into the Federation needs to be underway.

The Coalition is very late on accomplishing early objectives, and has lost the initiative with no clear way of getting it back. They are not in a position to threaten a Federal capital assault or ultimate victory.

Time to concede, unless the Coalition player wants to politely play out the loss so the Alliance can have some fun beating up the Coalition for a change.

--Mike

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 03:12 pm: Edit

Mike,

We have played this game many, many times. We know exactly what the situation is. No need to give us helpful advice. Thanks!

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 04:29 pm: Edit

Peter,

My apologies if my comments came across as negative. I have tremendous respect for your demonstrable knowledge of F&E (and SFB!) from your many helpful and erudite posts, both recently and going back for years in the online archives. I hope I did not suggest otherwise.

--Mike

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 04:41 pm: Edit

All good. Thanks for the note, though.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 05:01 pm: Edit

It's good commentary for the less of experienced of us reading along

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 05:09 pm: Edit

Also Peter, a special thanks to you and Jason for taking the time to post all the details of your game online. It is much appreciated, and both fun and interesting reading! And as Alex points out, it is also excellent live tutorial material for the less experienced F&Eers who are reading along.

--Mike

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 05:27 pm: Edit

Absolutely. Like, I (and Jason) both fully realize that this game is essentially already over. The Coalition is behind early enough that if it keeps going, eventually, the Alliance will start devastating capital systems. That being said, as Ted points out above, it is rare that games where the Coalition is behind continue past the point at which it is obvious. Which is kind of a drag for the Alliance (as they never get to play games where they are doing well), and not great for the game system overall (as we don't have a lot of understanding of what happens when the Alliance is doing well).

In this particular instance, yeah, I agree, I'm best described as "in the driver's seat", but I don't think the Coalition is far enough behind that it is hopeless for them at this point; like, the next 3 or 4 turns (through economic exhaustion) are likely to be interesting enough to possibly be worth playing out. I think the Coalition, could, on T12, kill Hydran SB 0215 and leave the Hydrans kind of adrift, and now with SB 1304 dead, it'll be a lot easier to rebuff the Kzinti.

Like, again, yeah, if we keep playing till T34 or whatever, I suspect that the Feds will occupy the Klingon capital. But the next few turns still are likely to be interesting.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 07:48 pm: Edit

I think the main problem is that for 8 turns I have been playing someone else's game in Kzinti space (with the plan to put an SB in 1403).

By putting the SB there rather than 1407 it meant additional ships needed to be in Kzinti space (because at that stage of the game there were ways for the Kzinti to get around the SB and attack Klingon space - so extra ships had to be spread out) so they werent in Hydran space - so taking the Hydran capital took longer (perhaps I could have been far more aggressive and taken a lot more losses to get the Capital earlier - but there is always a chance dice rolls are heavily favouring one side so it could have been heavy losses for not taking the Capital).

It probably turns out that the Kzinti Capital needed to go first, then the Coalition plays Keepings Off there out of 1403, or maybe tries to stick bases on 1401 (not sure if that ever works). But whatever option was taken, the Kzinti couldnt be allowed to build so many carriers. Even just building so many FFs so they could happily sacrifice them in carrier battles.

Or a Lyran MB goes on 1407 and the SB in 1403 gets built a few turns later - but there is still the Marquis SB which gives the ability to hit Klingon space.

So again we come back to needing to take out 1401 and giving the Kzinti no real ability.

But again we come back to the Marquis SB and being able to hit Klingon space

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 08:30 pm: Edit

Ah, yeah, that kind of back and forth on strategy almost always fails for the Coalition. The Coalition need to commit fully to a strategy.

Not your fault, of course, but it is what it is.

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Monday, July 12, 2021 - 10:41 pm: Edit

Peter offered me the chance to keep going or start again.

I said that I hadnt really enjoyed the game for many turns so we are going to start again.

I now just need to decide whether to try the SB 1403 idea again but have the focus be on Kzinti 1st, Hydran 2nd, or follow a more traditional route and contain the Kzinti and take out the Hydrans.

Thank you for once again being a great opponent Peter !

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 - 08:11 am: Edit

Excellent game, and now we start a new one!

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 - 08:43 am: Edit

Thats right.

Something Completely Different 4 is coming soon !!

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Tuesday, July 13, 2021 - 07:10 pm: Edit

I always enjoy the write ups for your games. I am looking forward to the next one. Even if I do not play F&E It does make me think about things.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, September 26, 2021 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Deletion warning, archive by 31 Dec 2021.