Kzinti economy, turn 22

Survey roll 10
Survey total 224
Survey EP 18
Offmap 17
Total 35
Percentage 0.75
Income 26.25

From last turn 1.5

Total Money 27.75

Builds
CMV 7
MEC 6
5FF 12.5

Total spending 25.5

Money after Econ 2.25
no command points

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Sunday, June 28, 2020 - 12:04 pm: Edit

Hydran economy, turn 22

Survey roll 11
Survey total 199
Survey EP 16
Offmap 17
Total before exhaustion 33
Percentage 0.75
Income 24.75
From last turn 8.5

Total Money 33.25

Builds
ID 30

Conversions
2xSC 2

Total spending 32

Money after Econ 1.25
7CP available

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Sunday, June 28, 2020 - 12:06 pm: Edit

Federation economy, turn 22

Survey roll 31
Survey total 309
Survey EP 22
Offmap 6
Capital 53
Planets 22
Provinces 36
NZ 1

Income 140
From last turn 0.55

Total Money 140.55

Repairs
Earth 27
Near Earth 16
BATS 6
Survey 2

Subtotal 51

Builds
14FF 42
6NCL 30
BC 10

Subtotal 82

Conversions
NVS 2
FFS 1
4FFE 4

Subtotal 7

Total spent 140
Remaining after econ 0.55

6th SB grid: 10EP, all spent on repairs, 0 remaining
9th SB grid: 1.4EP. 1EP, spent on a repair, 0.4 remaining

Command points: 0+1=1

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Sunday, June 28, 2020 - 12:08 pm: Edit

Gorn economy, turn 22

Survey roll 6
Survey total 75
Survey EP 6
Offmap 12
Capital 17
Planets 6
Provinces 23
NZ 2.4

Income 66.4
From last turn 0.2

Total Money 66.6

Repairs
6th 8
SW, incl. 1 SIDS 4
Gdhar 2 3.5
Gdhar 3 6.5
Offmap 8
3801 2
4904 1

Subtotal 33

Builds
4DD 12
Shipyard (4/6) 15

Subtotal 27

Conversions

Offmap FH 3
6th DE 1

Subtotal 4

Total spending 64

Money after Econ 2.6
Command points: 7+1=8

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Sunday, June 28, 2020 - 12:09 pm: Edit

Tholian economy, turn 22

Income 22

Spending:
build DN 12
Support lines for 12 homeless Feds, including 3 carriers
9

Remaining 1
Command points: 0+1=1

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, June 28, 2020 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Well a momentous occasion...

…. After probably 22 years (might be longer??) of playing F&E - this is the first time the Tholians have been used in a game I have played!

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, June 28, 2020 - 01:52 pm: Edit

That possibly leaves:

Orion pirates.
ISC.
LDR.
Vudar.
Seltorians.
Carnivons.
Paravians.

Have you played any of these?

I have yet to play with Seltorians or Paravians in a game.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Sunday, June 28, 2020 - 03:11 pm: Edit

Aside from the Tholian arrival, it is notable that the Fed economy this turn is the worst it's been all game. This turn they had 151EP, counting all grids. Their previous low was 158EP on turn 14.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, June 28, 2020 - 03:14 pm: Edit

Not yet!

Orion Pirates....only really worth playing if you have a third player?

ISC..... well, at the rate games take....I'll play with them, when I retire

The rest - not yet and I don't have the 'rule pack' they are in.

Any of them make the game play very differently?

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 09:34 pm: Edit

Alliance turn 22 op movement is underway. The Hydran Sitzkrieg is over as their offmap fleet, which has built 2ID in the last three turns, is venturing onto the map. The Coalition forces facing them have also been beefed up, but the addition of true carriers gives them the option of putting up a high-compot line where only a frigate is likely to be killed.

In Gorn space, the Gorns are attacking the Romulan fleet. They are trying to liberate planet 4705 with a fleet that is slightly smaller than the Romulan one holding it -- but the Gorns can put up a stronger line. They are also trying to retake planets 4903 and 5004, both of which are lightly held.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, July 04, 2020 - 11:34 am: Edit

Looks like the Alliance is putting both boots into the Romulans again....

….although lots of Alliance stuff still to move - and perhaps the Tholians have awoke?

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, July 06, 2020 - 06:03 am: Edit

Alliance Op moves have completed and the Federation seem to have been able to muster enough ships to attack all captured planets in Federation space and 3 Neutral planets on the border.

Coalition reserves will hopefully save 2 planets - but most are likely to be re-captured.

Tholians only attack 2 Klingon bases on the border and the Detached Fleet aids the Federation forces in getting back into Fed Space.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, July 06, 2020 - 04:39 pm: Edit

Well, I thought the dice was going to be fair to good for me... and its again gone down the pan!

One lucky roll (Fighting Retreat by 4 ships over a crippled F5) - William rolled a 1 and I rolled a 6 (so 1 damage v 2 - William had to kill a crippled Fed FF and the F5 survived).

But that's about it on lucky rolls.

Cloaks - 50% failure* so far (and every time I fail, I have died - what is worse is where in the last one, 2 ships needed to cloak - the first one passed and then second one failed - if the first one failed, there was a chance the other ship would fight and live, as the SKB could use it's fighters to help take the damage!) …

Another Double 6 in SSC sees a SPH and WE die (second time William rolls a double 6 to kill 2 ships in SSC).

Elsewhere a KC9 mugs a CL... and I roll a 3 (4 or higher crippled it, 6 or higher killed it).

In other words, SSC is just not being nice again.

So failed cloaks and good SSC means William is probably up 4 hulls again.

* - Cloaks remains poor value for the Romulans

Offensive Cloak for the turn - 1 Success, 1 Failure and 3 NA's

Cloaked Withdrawals 4 of 8 passed (43 passes now and 27 failures).

Most normal combat rolls remain pretty fair though.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, July 06, 2020 - 07:27 pm: Edit

"Well, I thought the dice was going to be fair to good for me... and its again gone down the pan!"

Dice have no memory. Past die roll results do not change the probability of particular results in future die rolls.

"One lucky roll (Fighting Retreat by 4 ships over a crippled F5) - William rolled a 1 and I rolled a 6 (so 1 damage v 2 - William had to kill a crippled Fed FF and the F5 survived)."

Winning (or losing) a single coin flip seems a low bar for calling the result lucky. :p

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, July 07, 2020 - 09:21 am: Edit

Richard

Totally agree - but on the basis successful cloak is twice as likely as a failed cloak, is it not reasonable to assume the proportions would be in those odds?

On the F5 surviving, I was highlighting that occasionally I might get a lucky roll

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Tuesday, July 07, 2020 - 06:18 pm: Edit

Further combat results roll in:

The Tholians have captured Klingon major planet 2518.

The Hydrans have won a map-reentry battle and are therefore on the map, at least for the moment. They crippled 4RN and NSC in the battle, so remaining on the map may pose a challenge.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 - 02:42 am: Edit

Alas Hydran RN's are nearly gaining the level of immunity Gorn DN's have.

And Lyran BC's are imploding upon sighting of enemy vessels.

(In 117, we both put on full cruiser lines in a round after over crippling the previous round, I needed 3+ to kill a RN... and missed (again) and Willian needed 4+ to kill a BC - and got it).

On the Hydran front, I think William is 2 for 2 on getting a roll to kill a heavy hull and I am 0 for 2 on killing a RN hull.

I then missed a RN the following round as I needed 4+, got a 5 but VBIR dropped 2 and missed it by 1 pip on the dice (so lost a DWE and could only cripple a RN!).

Only way it seems I can kill a RN is to use a Mauler (and WIlliam kills it).

Elsewhere - William rolled enough to kill a BC in 2509 (so Lyrans are running out of BC hulls now....) when he rolled a 6.

On key rolls....Williams seems to get most of them.

By Timothy Linden (Timlinden) on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 - 04:06 pm: Edit

This is one reason I much prefer converting Lyran CA's to DN's instead of CL's to BC's. 28 for a mauler/CC or 30 for a BC for the alliance to direct is not too difficult, but the 36 needed to direct a DN on the line is usually a lot harder. Plus if you had DN's on the line instead you may have been able to pop the RN's still, with the higher compot.

Tim Linden.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 - 05:03 pm: Edit

Well, William didn't roll the perfect number every time.

I think he missed one battle where he rolled low and didn't get enough to kill something

Everywhere else - pretty much bang on the money.

Basically, William rolled the lowest number to kill a Coalition ship and half the time, I rolled 1 below the number I needed to kill an Alliance ship (including atleast 2 battles were 3+ was needed and 2 where 4+ was needed, so it's not as if a lucky roll was needed).

2 Hydran RN's lived because I rolled 1 too low (was 3+ and 4+).

In SSC, WIlliam has resumed his 'I roll enough to kill' (again with 1 exception) and several Coalition ships died on the lowest possible number.

I think William will agree, luck was very much with him in most battles, I and was short more often then not of it.

I actually rolled slightly higher in normal combat (3.27 for William v 3.31 for me)- a but SSC was fairly different (7.92 v 7.07).

However my average '7' in SSC, never even got a crippled ship on the Alliance (and in 1 battle, I was at +4!), and a single Coalition ship survived SSC.

(Basically, where it was a dogpile on a single ship - Williams rolled a 6 and so with +4, got 3 casualties and in the closer battles, rolled much better - in 13 rolls, he had 2 12's!).

Other dice

No Update on Cloaks (so 50% failure).

On pursuit - both sides got a 100% success (I think I had 2 and William had 6).

Capture - 0 for me and 1 for William (probably close to average based on the number killed).

So timing of dice was crucial this turn and I got it once and William got it probably 9 times?

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 - 05:07 pm: Edit

Tim

Can't disagree - normally I build a lot more DN's - but as I converted all those CA's to CC's - I have found its better to convert a CL to a BC and have a BC and CC, rather than CL and DN.

Replacing the 2 BC's on with DN's... would have saved 1 of them (and so a lesser hull would have died along with a DN).

Probably 10 more compot would have been needed to get enough to kill the RN's - so 2 DN's over 2 BCs wouldn't have done it.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Wednesday, July 08, 2020 - 09:54 pm: Edit

The Alliance didn't do very well in terms of ship kills during the last turn and a half, with probably an edge 10 or fewer ships killed during the three player turns combined. But this turn they made up for it in a big way. Deadcounts for Alliance turn 22 are:

K 31
R 14
L 9

F 10
G 4
H 2
Z 1
T 3

Totals are 54 for the Coalition and 17 for the Alliance. (Tholians don't count)

Part of the problem for the Klingons is that they are carrying the vast majority of the burden of fighting the Feds. Much of what "should" be the Romulan front is in fact held by the Klingons.

Nearly all the killed ships were small. The exceptions were a Gorn BC, two Lyran BC, a Hydran RN and two D6M.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, July 09, 2020 - 04:58 am: Edit

To add to what William said - I was expecting to lose more ships than normal - the 6th Fleet SB encirclement used a lot of crippled hulls.

I wasn't expecting to lose over 50 hulls though.

I keep mentioning dice, but I looked at some of the results last night and two things generally happen (and happen on a regular basis).

1) Where Cloaked Withdrawal fails - the Romulan ship always die (it must have happened where a cloak ship failed and lived - but I can't find any).

So failing 50% of the rolls means more Romulans have died more often than they should have done.

2) In SSC - the dice have benefited William far more than me - by several magnitudes of margin.

3 examples highlight this

BD v SN battle (SN can't cloak as it has to retreat into a hex with a BD in) - so offensive Cloak Attempted and is a NA) - modifiers are +2 v -3 roll is 10 v 5. I die and no damage to the Gorns (7 or less by the Gorns - I live, 11 or 12 for me would have crippled the Gorn).

Fed CL v KC9 (Reserve fleet dropped the KC9 on him - I might have saved a Planet under attack but saving a crippled F5 and killing 2 Alliance ships I felt was worth it) so -6 v +4, rolls are 6 v 3 - so no damage done to the CL!

Fed CA and NCL v (Out of Supply) SPH+WE, so +1 v -4, rolls of 12 v 6. A roll of 9 or less for the Alliance means both Romulans live and a roll of 12 for me would have crippled a Federation ship.

3 sets of average dice would have seen 2 Romulan ships crippled and 1 Alliance ship killed.

Dice though means 3 Romulan ships die and no Alliance ships killed - a 4 ship swing in the Alliance favour - that isn't insignificant.

If the dice had been reversed - the effects would have been a modest swing in my favour (lots of crippled Coalition ships and several crippled ALliance ships basically - instead of dead and no crippled).

As I have said - WIlliams luck in SSC is pretty much perfect, and mine in pretty much 100% unlucky (nothing William can do about it) - but it now having a massive effect on the game (the Romulans have lost so many standard hulls, they are too Carrier Heavy now)

It's just a constant 'just enough for WIlliam to kill' v 'just enough for me to fail by the smallest of margins' in SSC.

And due to the failed Cloaks rolls - nothing I can do about it.

I would love to see a positive way to resolve the dice inbalances.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Thursday, July 09, 2020 - 06:18 pm: Edit

So do not do any more SCC what ever that is..

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, July 09, 2020 - 10:22 pm: Edit

SSC is small scale combat.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, July 10, 2020 - 03:02 am: Edit

Gregory

Alas, there is only 2 ways to avoid SSC..

1) Always have 4 more ships in a hex

2) Always have 2 or more medium/large ships which have either 15 or more Offensive Compot or 20 or more Defensive Compot.*

Under 1), it's automatically normal combat and under 2), it's play choice

* - Normally requires 2 or more ships, but a Paladin, B10 or 'Heavy Carrier' on it's own would qualify to take it over the SSC thresholds. Not sure why you would risk one of those hulls on it's own though.

Achieving a normal combat requirement is therefore very difficult for garrison forces, in all areas (there are some areas of the map you can 3 ships in 3 adjacent provinces which react into 1 hex if attacked).