Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through October 09, 2020	25		10/10 10:24pm
	Archive through November 02, 2020	25		11/13 10:49am
	Archive through December 06, 2020	25		12/08 02:29am
	Archive through January 20, 2021	25		02/03 03:30pm
	Archive through February 18, 2021	25		03/14 02:37pm
	Archive through March 20, 2021	25		03/25 03:00pm
	Archive through May 04, 2021	25		05/09 12:19pm
	Archive through June 07, 2021	25		06/10 02:37pm
	Archive through July 17, 2021	25		07/20 03:36am
	Archive through August 03, 2021	25		08/15 11:39pm
	Archive through September 13, 2021	25		09/20 10:24am
	Archive through February 01, 2022	25		02/04 12:06pm
	Archive through March 07, 2022	25		03/07 05:40pm
	Archive through March 18, 2022	25		04/05 02:19pm

Use Romulans as much as possible; their cloaking device reduces losses by quite a bit.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Friday, March 18, 2022 - 02:14 pm: Edit

Too bad they can't cloak their bases. ("I swear there was a BATS right here!")

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Tuesday, April 05, 2022 - 11:47 am: Edit

Combat on A13 progresses.

The Hydrans managed as expected, killing D5 F5 E4 DW 6FF (and crippling one more FF) while just losing a single crippled tr and taking PGS HN as cripples. dg 2tr k-d6s will be offmap for repairs once retrogrades are completed. They also managed to bring 10EP to the capital.

The Hydrans captured a Lyran FF! While it's not really valuable, it's still only 4 EP to repair and convert versus 5 EP to overbuild a CU (and it can be fixed up offmap), so I'm still waffling on whether to convert it or scrap it.

In Kzinti space and northern Fed space, the Alliance has killed another 10 or so ships, reclaiming all of the Alliance planets. The Klingons now have 20 ships out of supply near 2403 - and, importantly, without a supply grid to smuggle EPs to to supply them.

The Lyrans nearly did too - there was a big fight over 1506 between two nearly evenly matched fleets that lasted 5 rounds. Had I won, the Lyrans would have been forced north to 1505, where they would have been out of supply. As it is, though, I misjudged the force that was needed and retreated, taking a crippled dn in form as a consolation prize.

The Kzinti drew a couple of reserves to 1707. I got one SIDS, but then Karl overcrippled a DN for -11 and I was only able to achieve 28 damage, so the starbase has one SIDS left. The Kzinti once again have quite a stack of cripples, and it might take a few turns to sort them out. There's still pursuit to do, but the Coalition doesn't have a mauler so there's very little chance I lose a CV group.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, April 05, 2022 - 02:05 pm: Edit

Unless Hydrans are really really (really really) flush with Cash.... save the 4 Ep's AND scrap it for 1 Ep.

5 Ep's will seem alot when turn 16 hits and you end up with 75% of nearly nothing (rather than 100% of nearly nothing!).

The SB - is it crippled with 1 SIDS left or 1 SID from being crippled.... and is there a tug there that can repair it?

(Or can the Coalition pin them out to so you repair enough to get it uncrippled and then it can self repair itself?)

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, April 05, 2022 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Yep, the true cost of converting the FF is 5 EP because you lose the 1EP from scrapping it. As I pretty much never overbuild FFs as the Hydrans, I cannot advise converting the FF to their technology. You could convert it to an FFE for 7 EP total for a better light escort, but I think the 7EP net cost is not worth it. You get DWEs for essentially 6EP eventually anyway.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Tuesday, April 05, 2022 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Ah yeah, I forgot to count the EP I get for scrapping it. I was comparing the cost to overbuilding because I'm also doing a fair bit of smuggling and that's also double.

The SB in 1707 is 1 SIDS from being crippled; it's taken 7 SIDS. There's no tug there to repair it, though of course the base can repair itself. I doubt Karl will repair more than 1 or 2 SIDS on C14 as the Klingons have too many cripples as it is.

Unless the Coalition send a lot more ships there, they definitely can't pin the Alliance out. And it's now the only base in the area so killing it would really hurt Coalition supply.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, April 05, 2022 - 03:16 pm: Edit

Indeed - 5 Ep's for a FF or 5 Ep's for an overbuilt CU.... or 5 Ep's for proper ships when you can't afford it all.

Choices choices choices - probably worth repairing 3 or 4 SIDS then unless the Coalition can outpin the Alliance with more ships being repaired?

18 Damage never seems alot (to get a SIDD), but the over crippling trick can make it much harder.....

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, April 16, 2022 - 10:52 am: Edit

Alright, A13 has wrapped up combat! Casualty report:

Hydran crippled: PGS HN (2.5EP)
Hydran dead: tr
Kzinti crippled: 4CV 4CC 6MEC CLE 7FF (35.5EP)
Kzinti dead: 3MEC FF
Fed crippled: FAL CVS 4NCL CL 3DD 2DE 10FF FFE (31.5EP)
Fed dead: FFE
Gorn crippled: 5HD 5BD 7DD (22EP)
Gorn dead: 2BD DD

Lyran crippled: 2DN 2CC 5CW CWE CL 3DW DWE 2DD (28.5EP)
Lyran dead: DN CW 2DW 10FF
Klingon crippled: 2D7C 3D5 3AD5 2F5 (15EP)
Klingon dead: d6 D5 f5l 3F5 4E4 E4A
Klingon bases: BATS(1811) BATS(1807) BATS(2517) PDU(2403) SIDS(1707)
Romulan crippled: SPF WE SE K4 (5.5EP)
Romulan dead: SP 3WE SNB BH 2K5 K5S sn
Romulan bases: BATS(3715) 4PDU(4514) 6PSU(4613)

Alliance dead: 9
Alliance repair costs: 91.5 EP
Coalition dead: 35
Coalition repair costs: 49 EP

The Romulans now have severe supply issues. Probably half of their fleet is out of supply, with 35 ships unable to be supplied (mostly in 3510 and 3707) and another 30 ships requiring payment for supply (mostly in 2915). The Feds blocked all supply through and around the 6th Fleet SB, and an ff left in 3715 cut the connection between the two Romulan BATS remaining near Tholian space.

In the capital hexes, the Gorn devastated all the planets in the Vesuvius and Tiberius systems, not wanting to fight starbase fighters. They crippled 2HD BD DD in each system - not a high price to pay at all for devastating 5 minors! They also captured the neutral minor in 5403.

The only bad thing for the Alliance (which I'm seeing now that I'm doing retrogrades) is that the Kzinti have an absolutely massive pile of cripples. They've got 80.5 EP of repair to do. Fortunately, the Coalition has largely moved their fleets elsewhere so they've still got a pincount advantage in their theatre. If the 1707 SB goes down, the Coalition will have no supply to Eastern Kzinti space (the other bases have been destroyed), so I'm not particularly worried. Still need to finish it, though.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, April 16, 2022 - 03:43 pm: Edit

Despite some poor combat ordering on my part, the Federation was able to extract the 6th Fleet FRD to 2806 where it's needed. It involved 20 ships in 3509 (because there are the same number or Romulans in 3510) and 25 ships in each of 3711 and 3611 (because there are 25 Romulans in 3712). The Feds have reserves in 2306, 2211, 3604, and 3611 - not impressive reserves, but useful regardless.

The Gorn have ships on each of their border BATS, set up aggressively toward the Romulans. Total ships available for each is comparable, but the Gorn also have a pair of 7-ship reserves in 4206 and 4806.

The Hydrans have a pair of good reserves in 0617. Unless the Coalition sends a lot into the 0617, those might be used to protect the HNs they've got protecting Hydran provinces.

The Kzinti have their standard reserves - one in 1401 and one offmap. There aren't enough Coalition ships to pin the 1401 reserve, but it might be useful on map to help pin out Lyrans, if that is what happens there. With 53 SEQ in 1704, I don't expect a lot to happen in Kzinti space on C14.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, April 23, 2022 - 12:37 am: Edit

Given that exhaustion is looming and that the Alliance is on track to have pincount parity by the end of A15 or A16 and the general state of Alliance territory, Karl has conceded the game.

Good game, Karl!

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, April 23, 2022 - 12:58 pm: Edit

Congrats on the game!

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Sunday, May 08, 2022 - 08:44 am: Edit

I have some postscript comments on my reflections of this year+ game...
I had screwed up Klingon set-up from the outset based mainly on the fact that I was new to Vassal and was more concerned about play mechanics than board set-up, especially since Vassal defaults your fleet starting positions for you.
Anyway the game was underway and I realized turn 3 what I had done when I started paying attention to impending Hydran entry. I felt it was dishonest to go back and change deployments that late when Richard already had planned Hydran set-up based on my existing deployments. I also had the idea, "maybe the Expedition isn't that bad? Let's see what happens."
Well, the expedition *is* that bad, and it happened.
Even though it wasn't successful, defending the expedition took the West fleet (pinned by the 1st/Hydran home iirc) and the Klingon home fleet alone is not enough to make the job happen. Preventing an entire fleet from moving in a certain direction requires 3x pin count advantage, as pinning is not enough - you have to have fleets positioned such to trigger retreat priority 2, so that not even fighting retreats are an option.
This required not only the entire Klingon Hone fleet and East fleet but the new construction, and a handful of ships from the Kzinti theatre that were imported by strategic movement. That weakened the siege of Kzintai, and those ships ultimately chasing the Hydrans back home did not reach Hydrax until turn 5, which I feel is late to seriously begin your main assault on the Hydrans.
The Lyrans, incidentally, threw all their weight behind the Kzinti offensive in the hopes that if 1401 fell early we could concentrate on crushing Hydrax. But there just wasn't enough there; the capital SB was SIDSed but not destroyed and Hydrans meanwhile took the opportunity to destroy infrastructure in Enemy's Blood duchy which kind of forced the Lyran's hand.
The diversion of resources created by the expedition attempt was significant, and something I underestimated. It makes me wonder if it is worth Hydrans trying an expedition even if they have to go the "long way" just to tie up Klingon resources...

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, May 08, 2022 - 01:08 pm: Edit

I think going the 'long way', in general, while tying up Klingon resources, also leads to a lot of destruction of Hydran resources (at low cost to the Coalition), which in the long run is very detrimental to the alliance.

One reason this Hydran Expedition was so troublesome to the Coalition was that it DIDN'T cost the Hydrans very much to try. They even got to destroy Coalition infrastructure cheaply in the attempt.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, May 09, 2022 - 09:20 am: Edit

The key to stopping the Expedition is to have overwhelming pincount advantage on the Klingon-Hydran border right from the get-go. You can then compress the Hydran navy's options much more easily, because they have less room to maneuver.

However, as you indicated, it takes more than a 1:1 pin-count advantage, though at the border it's more like a 2:1 advantage, maybe 1.5:1 advantage.

The problem is, once you put THAT much pincount on the Hydran border you're more-or-less already committed to a Hydran-first policy.

I've seen people make a Kzinti-first policy work, but it requires exceptional aggression and a willingness to let the Hydrans cause some real problems. You also have to be very fast with the Feds, or the Hydrans will become *VERY* dangerous.

YMMV.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, May 09, 2022 - 10:21 am: Edit

I agree with Ted - you need the right forces in the right area.

The default set up is ideal for attacking the Hydrans - but not for defending.

I don't think too many additional forces are though needed as long as the 'Northern Route' is very very long (i.e. no ability to Retrograde on turn 3 or turn 4 to Kzinti space) - but it does limit the Coalition ability to attack 617.

Covering the 'narrow belt' in depth is normally enough - as what can go further north or along the bottom is alot less in Hydran ships than through the Narrow Belt.

i.e. The Narrow Belt allows the Hydrans to use 1st, 2nd and Expeditionary Fleets - the Northern Route the 2nd and Exp and Southern Route really just the 1st Fleet.

You pays your money and you take your choice!