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"By Ryan Opel (Feast) on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 - 08:14 pm: Edit


Quote:

Q: In my current game we are about to enter Turn #7 without a Klingon attack on the Federation. This puts the Federation into a Limited War situation and says it can send the Fourth Fleet into Kzinti space. The rules state that the Federation Home and Third Fleets are able to move freely inside of Federation space. Does this also allow ships in those fleets to be converted?
A: The second-to-last sentence of (654.2Y) in the F&E2KX rulebook [Fighter Operations (602.49B)] covers this. This is the section that is about what is not allowed when at Limited War. It says "Anything not otherwise covered." This means no, the ships in the Home and Third Fleets cannot be converted as they are not expressly permitted to be converted by that rule. For those who were not aware, the original rule (602.49) defining endless details of Limited War was published in Fighter Operations and, with very minor edits, became rule (654.0) in F&E2KX.


What about players converting ships during peacetime using Diplomatic Income? (540.23) says "Any EPs generated under this rule in peacetime could be spent at the owner's discretion." Does this allow converting ships in unreleased fleets? I.e. any fleet during peace, any unreleased fleet during limited war?

Ryan Opel 27 July 21

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REF:


(600.32) UPGRADES: The ships, but not the bases, of an inactive fleet can be converted at the starbases in that fleet’s area if the empire is on Wartime status. Ships from other friendly fleets can enter the area to use repair/conversion facilities.

(600.323) An empire not on wartime status cannot perform conversions of its ships.
FEDS: I think we may have a rule contradiction as the above SPECIFIC rules make it clear that conversion of ships ARE permitted when an empire is under a wartime status. These seem to form a contradiction between (600.32) and (600.323) with (654.2Y).

FEDS thinks that ship conversions ARE permitted during any wartime status based on (600.32) and (600.323) and that (654.2Y) should be corrected.}

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, July 28, 2021 - 12:29 am: Edit


Ryan, that is an SO question. be sure it gets into that topic.

"

If it helps - it seems the last bullet point of 602.49B just needs to be deleted - as any rule expansion would need a specific rule if it could be used by an Empire at Limited War.

The specific question though would seem to make an Empire at Limited War, weaker than an Empire at Peace - which logically does not make sense - i.e. why restrict a power which is in effect doing some aggressive actions - when a power fully at peace has more free reign?

So the Romulans or Gorns can convert what they like using diplomatic income.... the Klingons can convert ships in unreleased fleets - yet a power such as the Federation - which can manoeuvre the Home and Third fleets within Federation space, can't convert any?

I think 602.43 provides an easy answer in that where something is 'partially available' - in that this rule can be expanded to include that the Fleet AREA remains unreleased, but the FLEET is released to operate within a specified area - i.e. the Home and Third fleets are unreleased - but only within Federation space and the areas which was covered by those Fleets remains unreleased (other than MB's being able to be deployed).

Suggested wording

(602.43) Limited Availability. The Federation Home and Third Fleets (see Annex 702) can maneuver within Federation territory. In effect 'Limited Availability' creates a third definition for Fleets and Fleet Areas, which sits between Active and Un-active.

Limited Availability splits the Fleet away from the Fleet Area.

The Fleet Area remains unreleased (other than MB's being able to be deployed)

The Fleet is released for all intents and purposes, but until full war occurs - is inly released to operate within the Empires own territory.

Limited Availability may cover other Empires and Fleets and the appropriate restrictions would be covered in any Scenario Specific rules."

Hope this helps.

P.S. Added to Warbook FO (where the expanded rules are in and not SO - I think that was a mistype).

Paul Howard 31st July 2021

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Wednesday, January 31, 2024 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Ruling By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, January 31, 2024 - 04:30 pm to add SIT notes to the Lyran HDD and HFF.

Also comes with a suggestion by me to update the Four Powers War Scenario: Lyran Schedule with Substitution information about these same ships (available at the time of this scenario)

"I will point out there may be a need to note in Scenario 607.0 The Four Powers War: about these Lyran Ships and any restrictions or limitations. Nothing is mentioned and they are available toward the end of that war."

Specifically they are left out of the available Substitution schedule as follows:
(607.585) Lyran Schedule
Spring Turns Y158-Y162: DNE, CA, 2xCL, 2xDD, 2xFF.
Fall Turns Y158-Y162: BCE, CA, 2xCL, 2xDD, 2xFF.
May substitute CA for DNE.
May substitute CL for BCE.

-L Bergen 31 JAN 2024