Historically, the IKV Vandal was blasted through space and time to Y175, bringing with it advanced technology (the ship itself) with data about ship classes and empire tactics (and future history) running past the Andromedan war.

The ship, and all hands, however, was lost when it was mistaken for a Federation deception.

But What If?

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This scenario proposes that the Vandal was not transported in Y175, but instead at the end of the Four Powers War.

The Klingons spend the time that historically they had prior to the General War and develop all the advanced F&E ships and units, such as Pacification Stations, PFs, advanced technology (1X) and so on and prepare for the general war.

Though the Klingons try to keep this secret, the other empires begin to find out what is going on. The Lyrans demand technology exchange, but the Klingons drag their fleet and do not show willingness in helping their 'allies'. The Klingons still transfer ships to the Romulans, possibly in larger number (feeling their new designs make the old designs obsolete).

The Klingons transform large percentages of their fleet into these advanced ships, sending many of the older ships to the Romulans.

At the same time, the Klingons make peace overtures with the Federation, which ends with a more pacifistic government.

In Y168, the Lyrans, alarmed at the growing power of the Klingons fear ally with the Hydrans and both attack the Klingons. The Kzintis join a turn later, though they do not cooperate with the Lyrans (rules detail how they cannot cooperate). The Federation goes to limited war to assist the Klingons. At this point the Vudar rebel against the Klingons, the LDR join forces with the Lyrans and even the Tholians provide assistance against the Klingons. Being pacifists, the Federation does not develop war classes for ships and limit their assistance to defending Klingon space (as well as Federation territory).

The Romulans then attack the Gorns who also end up assisted by the Federation.

The WYN stay out of this as they historically did. The Orion province does not go neutral in this war. The Hydran Expedition is not a factor (the Federation will not side with the aggressors). The For reasons unknown, the NeoTholian 312th shows up early, uncrippled and escorting a PROVINCIAL CAPITAL, reinforced with double the historical forces and including a single NBB. This Dyson Sphere is added as a second system in Tholia and is devastated moving through the galactic energy barrier, losing it's ability to travel through space. It has a small ship yard which enhances Tholian ship production (and allowing Neo Tholian designs to be produced) A couple years later, the Seltorians also show up, in Klingon space with a Hive Ship and TWO Nest ships and a fleet of greater than historical forces.

The war continues until one side or the other wins, or until Y188 or so when the ISC intervene in a similar way to how they did historically.

This idea was developed by myself and Michael Calhoon and is in flux.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Wednesday, March 02, 2022 - 11:29 pm: Edit

Interesting.

As to Kzinti and Lyrans non-cooperation, it could be anywhere from "they can't have ships in battle lines commanded by the other's flagship" to "they are treated as enemies for all purposes (including pinning!) except that they move on the same turn and share victory." Which end of that were you thinking?

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, March 03, 2022 - 01:54 am: Edit

The Kzintis will have a separate player-turn I think (possibly the Romulans too). They treat Lyran units as hostile (and vice versa). Neither empire can enter the other's original territory. Victory conditions for each will not be helped by fighting the other (at least not directly) but losses will still count against the owning player.

There are rules (in current F&E) for three sided battle hexes that will be used if the Lyrans and Kzintis just can't behave like responsible empires.

Heh heh.

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The rule will be called 'Lyran and Kzinti cooperation' and in homage to the Anglo-French cooperation rule from Advanced 3rd Reich, it will not list any ways they cooperate but rather the reverse.

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To some extent, I think I will balance the scenario by altering the number of KR type units the Romulans get pre-war. With DXs, D5Xs and FXs a plenty, surely the Klingons don't need all those C8s, D7s and so on that they normally start with. Also note that the Klingons will start with XTPs and established colonies (with the rationale that the Vandal's files indicated the most profitable spots). Whem the Neo-Tholians and Selts show up early, boy will the Klingons be surpised. They thought they knew everything!

The Vudar will be historical, ie they start with CLs and FFs and don't get The Hole.
'Can you say crushed like a bug? I knew you could!'.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Thursday, March 03, 2022 - 10:20 am: Edit

What a creative scenario idea. Sounds cool! I'd recommend perhaps breaking it up into sections so it is easier to play? I'm particularly interested in the X-Klingons fighting the Lyran/Kzinti/Hydran forces.

>> With DXs, D5Xs and FXs a plenty, surely the Klingons don't need all those C8s, D7s

If X technology was available earlier, perhaps they'd forgo the construction of a chunk of their non-X designs in favor of X? They would not lose any combat power, and they'd gain a lot of flexibility and mobility from having a force which is mostly X ships.

--Mike

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, March 03, 2022 - 10:49 am: Edit

I also very much like this idea. Richard, once the scenario is detailed out, if you need a playtester let me know. We can put our game on hold in favor of playtesting this one.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Thursday, March 03, 2022 - 02:12 pm: Edit

There are a few issues with having separate turns for the Kzinti and the Lyrans:

1) There's no reason that the Kzinti and the Hydrans (or Tholians or whoever) can't be allied - though they might not be.

2) The Klingon player would effectively have half the number of reserve fleets (because it would need to hold them in reserve for whoever goes later).

3) Separate turns is much worse for the Klingons - if the Lyrans score 6 SIDS on a SB, the Kzinti can finish it off. But if the Lyrans and the Kzinti show up to a SB at the same time, they'd have to fight each other. Alternately, a force with lots of fighters could burn them at a base, not retrograde, and then react back in when another fleet passes by, attacking twice before the Klingons get to act (at the cost of not retrograding).

My ideal would be something like this (though maybe it's too complex):

In fall turns the Lyrans move, then the Kzinti move, then the Lyrans do combat, then the Kzinti do combat. In spring turns it would be the opposite. That way neither would be advantaged against the other, and you would end up with the potential of three different forces in a hex. Realistically, that would almost never happen if they have separate turns.

The other allied forces could choose which of the movement phases to move in (but would have to move entirely in one or the other).

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Thursday, March 03, 2022 - 05:56 pm: Edit

>> 2) The Klingon player would effectively have half the number of reserve fleets (because it would need to hold them in reserve for whoever goes later)

Since the Klingons in this scenario are using mostly X ships, could they be granted additional reserve markers to account for the additional speed, flexibility, and general X-ness of their X fleet?

Or perhaps the Klingons could be granted an opportunity to somehow reset some smaller number of reserve markers between their enemy turns?

Generally Sam, I think your commentary is spot on and it would be interesting to play test some of the options. I don't think it is insurmountable at all -- in fact it would be fun to have some slightly altered rules to go along with this imaginative scenario.

--Mike

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Thursday, March 03, 2022 - 07:14 pm: Edit

(543) Tactical Reserve ...

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, March 03, 2022 - 10:16 pm: Edit

Yes, I did not mention Tactical Reserves but those and all rules from expansions as applicable will be available to the Klingons.

It may be that the Kzintis WONT attack the Klingons and instead will go fight the Feds for the 4th Fleet area, or at least there will be VPs for doing so.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, March 03, 2022 - 11:14 pm: Edit

Yes, I did not mention Tactical Reserves but those and all rules from expansions as applicable will be available to the Klingons.

It may be that the Kzintis WONT attack the Klingons and instead will go fight the Feds for the 4th Fleet area, or at least there will be VPs for doing so.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Friday, March 04, 2022 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Geeat Idea...I love the Vandal Story

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Saturday, March 05, 2022 - 12:51 am: Edit

As Ted said I would be in for helping a playtest