Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through December 03, 2024	25		12/05 09:18am
	COUNTERS AND SITS TO MAKE ALL-KR WORK	22		12/07 11:37pm

I haven't seen it either since, unfortunately.

Back then, I have been delayed a couple of weeks before I sent the finished file to SVC. Therefore I assumed it simply got filed away or missed between then rest of his mail traffic.


I still have the file, if I need to sent it again to SVC.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Soeren Klein

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Wednesday, December 04, 2024 - 08:13 pm: Edit

Missing an escort carrier, why not the K5V, it fits the SKB role …

By Soeren Klein (Ogdrklein) on Wednesday, December 04, 2024 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Stewart

Because no K5V has been published in any module.
Maybe I missed one in a CapLog but there is none in either the Romulan SIT or TacOps SIT listed.
Same goes for a K4V. Not mentioned in either file.

The only published escort carrier is the late war KWV, a F5W derivate.

At the end of my file I listed a number of missing (conjectural) KR variants for a fully workable scenario variant here. Alternatively one might sub Klingon counters.

But the basis of my work was using published Romulan KR ships.
Therefore the escort carrier problem.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Soeren Klein

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, December 05, 2024 - 03:29 am: Edit

I do not recall seeing the file but send it again and I'll be sure Simone gets it.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, December 05, 2024 - 09:18 am: Edit

Beyond the Y168 Order of Battle being discussed above, there is also the question of how - or even if - one could work up a series of "Shadow of the Kestrel" OOBs (and "missing" SIT entries) for other eras and timelines.

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For example: be it in the list of Y186 OOBs provided in ISC War, or the data for the Romulan Civil War scenario previewed in Captain's Log #50 and the CL50 Supplemental File (and to be formally published in the Civil Wars rulebook), things would look quite different to what was deployed historically on either side of that internecine conflict - not least when facing the ISC Echelon of Justice at the pivotal battle of Tibernia IV.

Indeed, one might wonder if the outcome of the civil war might itself be impacted by such changes. Consider: in the historical timeline, the would-be Emperor Rolandus was killed when his flagship, the King Eagle-X Ancient Hero, was attacked by the FireHawk-X Praetor Maximus in a betrayal of the truce called in order to present a joint front against the ISC intervention. Also, when the ISC CCX Stellar Harmony destroyed the dreadnought Senator, the post-Civil War Romulans were convinced that it was necessary to field the NovaHawk-X from Module X1R, as a "true" X-command cruiser.

However, if, say, the Romulans deployed a Kestrel version of the Klingon DX as soon as the blueprints were made available, Rolandus would likely have been aboard one of those instead of the historical KEX (which would not exist in this alternate setup). So, if the "backstabbing" ship was, say, a K7X rather than a FHX, would it still have been able to assassinate Rolandus in the same manner as had happened historically?

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Beyond this, there is the prospect of a Y188 OOB, for use once the Andromedans show up in force.

Not least since, later in the war, the Romulans would need a Kestrel version of the Klingon D5PX from Module X1R, so as to chase down Andromedan Rapid Transit network nodes. (Such X-PFTs would no doubt use K1 gunboats rather than Centurions or StarHawks, in this instance.)

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And, in case the "historical" timeline doesn't quite provide enough options for you to consider, there is also the "Mapsheet P" preview for F&E in Captain's Log #48.

Between the "early" appearance of the Fleet of the East that would be needed to handle a hostile ISC border, and the ships to be deployed to "leased" survey territory in the off-map Paravian Farnest, there'd be a very different dynamic at the start of the General War for an all-Kestrel Romulan fleet than there would be for them in the "standard" timeline.

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Of course, whether or not any of this would be worth pursuing is something I leave to wiser minds to consider...

By Soeren Klein (Ogdrklein) on Thursday, December 05, 2024 - 11:28 am: Edit

SVC,
E-mail sent from ogdrklein at web dot de

with the pdf-file (and a docx-file in case you'd like to edit something).

Thanks for the answer.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Soeren Klein

By Soeren Klein (Ogdrklein) on Thursday, December 05, 2024 - 11:33 am: Edit

Curiosity question:

I made a list of units missing in the published products and SITs to make this alternate scenario setup truly workable.

If I'd like to make a request for counter factors of the missing units -say conjectural factors in the next CapLog - which thread would that be here on the BBS?

That would include unpublished late-war ships that would show up later in the game and take the place of corresponding ships from the Hawk-series.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Soeren Klein

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Thursday, December 05, 2024 - 11:42 am: Edit

SIT factors for K5V and K4V would be nice to have. We can always DIY the counters.

--Mike

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, December 05, 2024 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Isn't some of that in TacOps? No, not that I can find.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Friday, December 06, 2024 - 07:48 pm: Edit

Vulkan (FO) has the K5V and K4V [D7/D8] …

By Soeren Klein (Ogdrklein) on Saturday, December 07, 2024 - 01:08 am: Edit

Thanks for the hint with the K5V and K4V.

I found the post. Its from 2024 and therefore I missed it since I wrote my proposal in 2022.

I might have to revise my proposal over the holidays.

The starting OOB should be fine (replacing the 2xWH groups in each fleet with a single KRV-group and an extra K4). But the pre-war construction schedule may have to account for them.

Question to the expert players: As both escort carriers are only on the reprinted countersheets and (for the moment) missing in vassal and the online SITs, would you go with a production note at the end of the PWC section or fully include the K5V and K4V in the PWC?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Soeren Klein

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Saturday, December 07, 2024 - 08:38 am: Edit

Personally, I'd fully integrate the K5V/K4V as you see fit and just make notes at the end as to where to find factors and counters.

Where some players may want to play this but don't have every single counter (cardboard or electronic), you could also suggest substitutes.

I'm sure the SITs and Vassal, etc, will catch up soon enough.

--Mike

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, December 07, 2024 - 12:50 pm: Edit

To follow up on the Vulture substitution discussion:

Over in the new counter/SIT thread, I referred to this playtest KC6R SSD, which serves as a Kestrel iteration of the Klingon C6 early dreadnought.

Rather than replace the historical Vultures in the mothball fleet with fully refitted KC9s, I wondered if one could use these proposed KC6s in this role instead. This would oblige the Romulans to either pay to upgrade them to KC9s upon activation, or perhaps to activate them as-is and then worry about how to upgrade them later on.

Might this be an adjustment to consider, or perhaps to offer as a separate balance option?

By Soeren Klein (Ogdrklein) on Saturday, December 07, 2024 - 11:51 pm: Edit

Gary,

i see. Is the ship a playtest only on this board or from a CapLog?
I remember reading somewhere that the real KC9 Behemoth was one of those early C6 dreadnoughts and therefore the massive cost (16 EPs?) in FnE to activate it.

I might add this as an option in place of the KRC i placed in mothball. And it would make sence copying the 4pt activation cost of the original vultures if those two where the -say- the original testbeds before the real KC9-slipways where built.

I'll consider.

In the meantime I set up a chart to include the two escort carriers in the romulans PWC without violating the required SEQ, compots and fighter factors from the real OOB, which will take some time over the holidays.

Until then, more suggestions and advice welcome.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Soeren Klein