Archive through January 02, 2023
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Archive through January 02, 2023
This is a game between Richard Eitzen, who will be playing the Alliance, and me. We are using the 2010 rulebook with the Advanced Combat table.
I have repeatedly claimed that the basic game is unbalanced in favor of the Coalition, and that in particular, a certain strategy is likely to result in victory. A strategy cannot be both broken and secret, so here is the rough outline:
C2 -- Kill 2 Kzinti SB
C3 -- transfer large fleets to the Hydran front.
C4-5 -- take Hydrax. Kill all on-map Hydran bases. (The SB near the Old colonies may present a challenge here).
C7 -- Kill three Fed SB.
C10-14 or so -- collapse the Fed position, leading to eventual victory.
Obviously, knowing this, the Alliance can play around it. I am not promising to stick to the above. For example, it would be possible for the Kzinti to under-defend Kzintai sufficiently to persuade me to deviate.
I am looking forward to this game, as I believe Richard will play both fairly and well.
Thanks to both of you for choosing to share your game with us. Looking forward to seeing how it all unfolds. May the best player win!
--Mike
LOL, I wouldn't necessarily count on that. My entire opinion is that the game is unbalanced. All I have to do is avoid playing poorly enough that Richard is able to overcome the unbalance. But thanks for watching!
I also look forward to hearing the reports, as I have previously stated a couple times before I generally consider the game unbalanced in favor of the alliance.
That said, I have only seen your "rough outline" happen one time (and the coalition did win that game), but more often have seen the alliance cause one or more of those line items to not be achieved.
C2 killing 2 Kzinti SB is pretty standard. However, I've seen more games where the Hydrans still have a base or two on map on turn 5 than not, and only one time have I seen three Fed SB drop on turn 7. In my experience it's usually been 2, and once I've seen only 1 go down but that game was a train wreck for the coalition all the way through, and I don't think we even played past turn 8, it was so bad.
Anyway, different groups, different experiences, looking forward to hearing about your upcoming game. Sounds like you know how to win with the coalition, maybe we just never had anyone with the knack.
Sounds like a good challenge.
Personally, I think their are only two things which can realistically stop the Coalition in achieving in achieving this :-
1) Absolutely brutal dice on the Coalition. A couple of good Alliance rolls in the north over the SB's and some 5 or 6's rolls over Hydrax early on, make slow the Coalition down enough to buy the Federation a 1 turn delay in the invasion.
(Alas in the temporary game I had with William where we duplicated this strategy - it was the Alliance which rolled generally poorly and they were unable to do enough damage to slow them down)*
2) Tempt the Coalition to be more aggressive in the North, to in effect create the 1 turn delay, as they replace key hulls (which died) or require them to lower the southern front tempo down due to a lack of uncrippled ships.
Either way* - the Kzinti and Hydrans need to create a back log of cripples which give the Kzinti and Hydrans a local advantage in ship equivalents to do some significant damage to the Coalition.
If it's enough - it might delay the attack until turn 8 (which IMHO, in effect doubles the Federation defence on the Star Bases - requiring all 3 to be SID's to death, rather than letting the damage fall) - which is what is needed to stop the Federation being smashed by turn 10.
Would be interesting to see if a turn 8 attack, which bypasses the SB and goes for Economic Damage on the Federation can be as effective.
(I am guessing the Coalition would just have to be more careful on supply and get 150 ships in range of Sol....... and the effect might be the same!).
Even in the basic game though, if the Kzinti use reserve fleets to cover 1401 (from the Marquis SB and Barony), killing 2 SB's on turn 2 is not easy though - accepting the Kzinti CV escorts are bad at that time - the Coalition lines are not that good, with a lack of Lyran Heavy Hulls (DN and BC's) meaning a well defended Kzinti SB will take abit of effort to go down.
So the question for Richard in effect is how weak can 1401 be defended..... without risking a heavy raid (or capture) of 1401 on C2.... unless that is the plan to alter the tempo 
?
1) Paul, you are banned from talking about dice in this thread.
:-)
Delaying the attack ont he Federation until turn 8 (instead of turn 10 or doing the attack on turn 7) is essentially the worst choice. The Feds have a turn to reinforce their bases, but you don't get the combined effect of the Romulans attacking at the same time.
In general, I think this is a poor strategy. YMMV.
Lyran Economy, Turn 1
Survey 0+7=7
Total Money 115
Builds
BC 10
TGC (for CA) 8
3CW 15
2DW, DWS 14
3FF 7.5
FRD 10
5FF, CW (overbuilds) 35
Subtotal 99.5
Conversions
Lyrantan DN 6
FS 2CC 2
Red Claw 3CC 3
608 2CC 2
Subtotal 13
Total spending 112.5
Money after Econ 2.5
Command Points 4+1=5
Klingon Economy, turn 1
Survey 0+11=11
Total Money 142
Builds
D7C 9
TGA (for D7) 8
D6M (for D6) 10
9D5 45
3F5, F5S, 2F5V 26
3xE4 7.5
Activations 7
FRD 10
Subtotal 122.5
Conversions
Klinshai D6M 5
Klinshai D6D, F5S 4
NR D7C 2
SR D7C 2
Tholian D7C 2
Subtotal 15
Total spending 136.5
Money after Econ 5.5
Command Points 6+1=7, or is it 6+0=6? (Not buying one)
Richard
Good Point (Only mentioned it as the Kzinti did a modest amount of running amok in the north - but the dice reduced their effectiveness - and even with average dice, it probably wouldn't have made much difference )
Turn 8 - IMHO, Williams plan would be more effective on turn 8 than turn 10 - but a turn 7 attack, if done well is brutal.
Fed Home Fleet and new builds makes a huge difference - and proper placement of reserve fleets might save a SB.... (i.e. turn 7 reserves are almost certainly useless for the Feds!)
William
Can the Klingons Survey on turn 1.... (I don't think so, as they are not 'at war')??
Overbuilding - well the Klingons will not be happy!!!
The Klingons are at a wartime economy and can do anything other than cross the border, basically.
In 2010 F&E they can survey on turn one. It's in games using the full survey rules where they cannot (because then they have to move their survey ships to the offmap area on turn one).
The Klingons cannot survey on Turn 1. See (601.1611).
Quote:Because they cannot leave their own territory, the Klingons cannot begin survey operations.
NOTE: Partial Quote of the rule cited above.
Ok, that is true. I suggest the Klingons use this survey roll for turn two.
nah, they'll reroll it, it's cool.
Coalition quasi-turn 1 is complete. It was even less eventful than C1 normally is. The Lyrans killed BATS 703 for two crips. The Kzinti doubly reserved 701, and the Lyrans backed off. On to Alliance turn 1.
On turn A1, the Kzinti simply repositioned themselves to prepare for the coming storm. There is a very strong reserve at Kzintai and a pretty strong reserve at the Marquis SB.
Well, with no Lyrans within range of 1401 - that makes it easier for the Kzinti to naturally defend the SB's more and 1401 less.
Question is - did the Kzinti spend Eps on PDU's for 1401?
With Williams objective - those Ep's would probably be wasted, but what else can the Kzinti spend Ep's on?
(Could overbuild FF's????)
Not buying PDUs is just asking for the Coalition to capture Kzintai. Not a good idea.
When I'm the Kzinti, I actually don't buy full PDUs on turn 1, because I want the Coalition to attack Kzintai, not Hydrax.
Lyran Economy, turn 2
Survey: 7+6=13
Offmap 22
Capital 37
Planets 24
Provinces 32
NZ 1.6
Income 116.6
From last turn 2.5
Total Money 119.1
Repairs
705 2
Builds
DN 16
TGC (for CA) 8
3CW 15
2DW, DWS 14
3FF 7.5
FRD 10
3FF, CW (overbuild) 25
Subtotal 95.5
Conversions
Lyrantan DN 6
EB 3CC 3
FS CC 1
Subtotal 10
Total spending 107.5
Money after Econ 11.6
Command Points: 5+1=6
Klingon Economy, turn 2
Survey roll 6
Survey total 6
Survey EP 0
Capital 49
Planets 41
Provinces 52
Income 142
From last turn 5.5
Total Money 147.5
Builds
C8 16
TGA (for D7) 8
D6M (for D7) 10
9D5 45
6F5 18
3xE4 7.5
Activations 7
FRD 10
Subtotal 121.5
Conversions
Klinshai D6M 5
NR 3F5V(FFF) 15
SR D7C 2
Tholian D7C 2
Subtotal 24
Total spending 145.5
Money after Econ 2
Command Points: 7+1=8
Do you buy zero PDU on turn one?
Usually two. Not swearing that's the best choice. But it is the choice I make. I did play with expansions a couple of times. In that case, I buy 4 PGB, because they have great DefPot for the price.
Good Luck William.
Richard is an outstanding Alliance player. If anyone can prove you wrong, it's him.