Archive through January 26, 2023
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Archive through January 26, 2023
Also not a fan of the B10V or B10S. I guess they're good in cases of fighting extreme high compot, at least until escorts get stripped.
Better to use B10s to boost compot to go brutalize moderate enemy fleets if they're available targets. You could stack them (and C8s or such) for massive compot.
I was also not a fan of the B10V. I told my opponent that I would not build it myself, but he wanted to see how it worked out. As it turns out, we both think its worked out for him. You are right that the alliance can remove it from the force after a couple of rounds of directed damage. That's a painful choice though, as killing the escorts is expensive. 19/21/24 for F5E/FWE/F6E.
Agree that for a SB assault or similar long battle, the B10V is not ideal, unless it can be paired with other ships that might take the DD hit instead.
On the B10V/B10S - sorry your missing the obvious.
If using the right rules - you don't build a B10V or B10S.
Your would always build a B10VAA (or B10SAA).
(With the old rules, you would build a 'normal' (please don't laugh in the back row there) a B10AA - and switch from using it in form or on the Line as you decide whether to not to use the SFG).
With only 2 SFGs being used now, the B10VAA/B10SAA has more value I think - if there is too much risk (or too little reward) of using the SFG's - you don't use it.
If you had put a B10AA on the line - to threaten to use it's SFG's - if the wrong line comes up (either powerful enough to have 3-6 ships frozen AND still get enough damage to kill the B10AA or is constructed to weaken the SFG enough (lots of EW for example) so you don't use it, thereby allowing the line to do enough damage (with a lucky roll) at 2:1 to cripple or kill it.
40 Damage isn't 'that hard to do', with a lucky roll (i.e. 100 is 1/36 chance, 113 compot would be a 1/6 chance - yes the penal ships might bump this up abit, but late war, 125+ is possibly easily!!).
So the Carrier Variants give you the choice - without risking it.
>> 100 is 1/36 chance, 113 compot would be a 1/6 chance
Thankfully Paul, with you playing the Alliance these lucky rolls will never happen! :-0
--Mike
>> B10 in the formation bonus, plus a B10V group in the line
Note that you can also do this with just two standard B10 in the base game, since B10 is a single ship carrier and can choose to be in SSC mode or light carrier mode. (501.12) (515.42)
1st B10 is SSC with formation bonus, 20x3=60 points to directed damage cripple.
2nd B10 chooses to be a light carrier (4 fighter factors) and takes the standard one escort plus one more to be "overstuffed". So:
[B10 + AD5 + F5E]
Group defense factors 20 + 7 + 5 = 32, which takes 64 points of directed damage to cripple the entire group.
So the B10 light carrier group is mathematically safer than the SSC B10 with the formation bonus, although the escorts can of course be whittled away via directed damage if the Alliance player so chooses.
B10V and B10S are not SSC and can't flexibly switch roles like that.
--Mike
@Paul Howard,
That is a hidden advantage of a B10VAA I had not considered. Nicely done.
I'm not sure if it's worth the probable line durability hit I described above. Generally it's fairly easy to know what kind of line the enemy will put up, and then decide whether to risk the B10 out of the form box accordingly.
But yeah. Might be worth building a B10VAA for that reason.
Again, YMMV
@Mike: Another nice point (to treat the regular B10 as a "light" carrier - the irony, heh) and escort it. Only disadvantage is that such a designation will last the whole combat, so may not be worth it. Still, though. An idea that could be used if the tactical situation were right.
Richard actually you are supposed to know about our strategy. I am imagining some world in which people assume this is the strategy they need to deal with.
At any rate, there are only three battles on C3: BATS 1004, BATS 1605, and planet 1304. Both Kzinti reserves go to 1004. It seems they want to create conditions for an Expedition up the K/L seam. We need to prevent this.
The B10 can also use Flagship Escort Groups (FEG) later in the war.
We've been using Combined Operations circa 2003. In that ruleset for SFGs, (312.265) says that a B10VA using its SFG can be attacked as a single ship (i.e., it loses carrier group protection). That dis-incentivized use.
Did that change in CO 2021? I have not picked it up yet.
No that did not change in CO2021.
Tom
Ships using a SFG are also directable as an individual ship.
The benefit of the B10 (with any fighters) it can always be escorted as a Carrier - and so the Klingons can choose to use the SFG (and it's vulnerable for directing) or not (so it's probably safe, as it counts as a group) after seeing the enemy line.
Any other SFG ship probably will want to use the SFG's - as it can always be directed at 2:1, even it doesn't use them - which might not be a good outcome for the Klingons.
On this game - 1004 - is pretty useful, so if the Alliance think they Coalition is going for a turn 7 smash and grab on the Feds - does the Alliance have to attempt an Expedition (and use 1004 to pull Coalition forces into guarding more routes) to counter it????
Paul
Good point. As to useful or not, I think the B10 always has value, and since the SFGs can be installed later, why not get it going anwyay?
Turn 3 retro is underway. It is going to take a bit of work because our intel apparently sucks, and they have been unable to pin down the specific location of most Hydran units. Once the Hydrans have to actually commit themselves to being in specific hexes, this will get a lot simpler.
The upshot is that the Kzinti will get to do whatever they want to, but perhaps only for a turn.
I assume 1004 was held by the Kzinti?
Alliance Turn 3 is perhaps the only part in the whole game when the Alliance can get a 'mini-jump' over the Coalition on strategy - so which route (after William has done Retro and SM!!!) will the Hydrans try for the expedition?
They held it on C1. We killed it on C2. But they Kzinti could still tow an FRD from the Barony, etc. And reserving the hex gives them ships in the region.
Hopefully I've shut the window with my strats and retroes. We'll see.
*FY169.
*Federation:
A3 PWC (4th Fleet) DN 3NCL 3FF
*Kzinti eco A3 FY169
*Survey roll: 17. New total: 18 + 17 = 35 (one province).
*Old treasury: 25.3EP 2CP.
*Income:
*93EP - 9 EP (1105 1504 captured 1001 lib A2) - 12 (5CAP PROV and 2 DIS PROV) + 2 (survey) = 74 EP.
*New treasury: 99.3 EP 6FFF 1CP.
20.5 CV(6FFF) MEC FF(sub EFF)
8 TGC(sub BC)
12 2MEC(sub 2CM)
5 2FF(sub CL)
13.5 4FF SF (sub 5FF)
Free CP (now 3 CP total)
----------------
59 EP Total
Conversions
17 (1401) BC->CV
---------------------------------------------
17 Total
Repairs
13.5 (OM) bc 5cle 3eff sf
89.5 Total spent
9.8 EP 3CP remaining.
*Hydran eco A3 FY169
*Survey roll: 10.
*Income:
*74EP 6FFF.
*New treasury: 74 EP 6FFF.
15 2DE 2CU (sub UH DE 2AH 3FFF)
6 TG(sub RN 0.75FFF)
5 HR(1.5FFF)
16 3CU 2HN SC(sub 3CU 3HN)
28 4PDU(Hydrax)
Free CP (now 1 CP total)
----------------
70 EP Total
Conversions
2.5 (0617) 2LN->2DE(0.75FFF)
---------------------------------------------
2.5 Total
Repairs
72.5 Total spent
1.5 EP remaining. 1 CP.
The Hydrans have been set up. All are in 716, 714, 915, or 617. My best guess at this point is that they are going to cause trouble for the Lyrans.
Any chance of a summary of what the Coalition moved south and where to?
I assume the Northern, Belt and Southern Expeditionary routes are 'probably' blocked?
88 ship plus fighters in 1013. Of them, 16 are Lyrans. With overbuilds, the Hydrans could actually get a few ships past, but there are small forces at 810 and 1010 they could not get past.
Most of the rest of the Lyran fleet is at 413, 411, 409, and 212. Putting much at 212 was probably a mistake on my part.
The Klingons have 18 ships plus fighters at 1413. Again a few Hydrans could get past but would be stopped by fleets further back (SR, Home and East).
13 Klingons at 1214. All set up there on turn. Probably a mistake by me.
Alliance turn 3 combat is underway. By far the biggest battle is at 1407, where the Kzinti have sent the cream of their fleet and are threatening the Klingon planet and the co-located Lyran mobile base. The Coalition sent three reserves here (2, 4, and 7 ships) and is still outmatched.
It's an interesting battle, and I'm uncertain whether or not I should:
* accept approach
* try to hold the hex
* use dirdam
* spend command points
* be willing to trade a lot of crips.
In other words, pretty much everything about the battle is unclear. That said, I have in my mind an idea which I will probably go with.
There are also battles at 1307 (BATS is likely to hold) and 1507 (BATS may fall). But the Coalition can retreat among these three hexes, so we may get reinforced at whatever is not done first.
The Hydrans chose not to attack.
It was a bad day for Coalition pickets in Kzinti space. Five were attacked resulting in destroyed F5 3E4 and an E4 cripples for no damage to the Kzinti.
Every day is a bad day for Coalition pickets in Kzinti space. I'd rather be posted to a penal ship!
Richard
Were the pickets 'massively'* ganged up on or was ESSC nice?
* - Noting 'massively' may not be that big 
(i.e. to kill a E4 might only need 23 compot, assuming your happy with a 35/36 chance of killing it - although the F5 would need 33 compot on the same odds!)
How does 1407 look like it will go?
I am guessing the threat of the Expedition (and so many ships heading south) will allow the Kzinti some modest chance of doing something in the north?
Question is (and I failed), will it be enough to reduce the turn 7 attack??
>Richard
>Were the pickets 'massively'* ganged up on or was >ESSC nice?
In one case, massive. The Kzintis were otherwise +4 against pickets.
>* - Noting 'massively' may not be that big
>(i.e. to kill a E4 might only need 23 compot, >assuming your happy with a 35/36 chance of >killing it - although the F5 would need 33 compot >on the same odds!)
I always do these calculations when sending forces.
>How does 1407 look like it will go?
Magic 8-ball says: Answer hazy, ask again later.
>I am guessing the threat of the Expedition (and >so many ships heading south) will allow the >Kzinti some modest chance of doing something in >the north?
Yes.
>Question is (and I failed), will it be enough to >reduce the turn 7 attack??
That won't be apparent until at least the end of C5 I think. Really, how can you expect an opinion when the Coalition hasn't attacked the Hydrans yet?
Combat is over.
Battles at 1307 and 1507 were one approach round and fleet. The Kzinti lost an FF and SF at these battles and only killed Coalition fighters.
At 1407, there were two approach rounds. After running out of (30) fighter factors, the Kzintis fled.
KIA:
Klingon: D5 F5 3E4.
Kzintis: FF SF.
WIA:
Klingons: 4D5 E4.
Kzintis: MEC CLE.
Some Klingon and many (40+) Kzinti fighter factors were killed.
At this point, the Coalition have captured one planet and two provinces in Kzinti space. The Kzinti retrograde mostly to 1401, but have enough at 1001 to hold the planet a turn and will get an EP from it next turn if they do. 1202 and 1502 are in Kzinti hands and still have their PDU.