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	Archive through July 13, 2023	25		07/31 08:54pm

Coalition turn 4 combat is underway on the Kzinti front. The Duke's SB(1304) has fallen. The Kzinti did get their pound of flesh, killing 7 ships, including 3 tugs with pods and a D6S, while losing 5 ships, mostly vanilla. We took more crips than the Coalition did. The crips will be a problem for us as they obviously can't be repaired on our turn, unless we want to spring for field repairs. Overall definitely worth it for him.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Sunday, July 16, 2023 - 03:33 pm: Edit

Due to RL issues, we have completed combat on the Kzinti front, with Hydran movement and combat to finish up afterwards.

The Kzinti lost the Duke's SB(1304) and minor 1504. They barely held on at 1502 and even captured a mauler.

BUT they have 33EP of crips, not counting the mauler, and none of them are on repair sites. This will obviously weaken their fleet next turn.

By Gary Quick (Northquick) on Thursday, July 20, 2023 - 04:09 pm: Edit

Catching up with the Hydrans:

HT3
Income: 74
Builds: TG, TR, FCR, 5xCU, SC Pallet, Mon, 2xPDU, 2xPGB, CMD Pt
Convert: 2xLN > 2xDE

Hydrans had an excellent shot at an Expedition, so we forced a change in Coalition fleet (mostly RESV) placements (as we all agreed that a successful Expedition isn't very fun, but the threat is necessary to put a little check on the Coalition.)

Hydrans thereafter has a very quiet turn - establishing moderate sized fleets at the SBs, a large one at Hydrax, and a couple largish RESV.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Saturday, July 29, 2023 - 08:17 pm: Edit

Kzinti economy, turn 4

Survey (3 ships, PT) 35+12=47, now 2 provinces
From last turn 8.3EP, but 21EP debt. Also 1.5FFF.
Income 67EP
Interest 2.1EP, so
available to spend 73.2EP

Builds:

CVS 12 (6FFF)
TGC 8
4MEC 24
FCR 9.5
FFK, FKE 7
3FF 7.5
PT 0
POL 0
Subtotal 68

Conversion: CVL => CVS 4 (1.5FFF)
Repay 1EP
Balance 0.2EP, 6FFF
No more free PGB . Planet 1502 is now weak, so ENG needs to run away offmap. Not sure how useful ENG will be from now on. Offmap PRD does at least have some value.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Monday, July 31, 2023 - 08:54 pm: Edit

Alliance turn 4 is complete.

The Kzinti killed BATS 705 and got slightly better ship attrition (killing 3F5 and FF and sending a Lyran FF to Depot timeout, while losing an FF). The Hydrans are the main Coalition target. As they lack the carrier lines the Kzinti have, they made no attacks and instead turtled up.

The Kzinti also finally deigned to trade with the WYN, sending them 4EP. Prior to this, everything was just too tight for them to spare the ships and EP it would have taken to trade.

All in all, an average turn, I think.

I am interested if anyone has useful ideas for what to do with the Kzinti ENG, now that it can no longer safely build defenses in 1502. They are likely to build an offmap PRD next turn. After that I have no idea. Minor shipyards seem semi-useless as we are not going to be wealthy. Once we have five provinces surveyed, I guess they could build an offmap colony, though it seems a bit wasteful as they would only save 1EP over three turns.

If another planet becomes defensible, they would be glad to go there and build defenses. But prospects for that don't seem too good.

I'm wondering if I should have kept them in 1502 and had them continue building defenses, even though the chance of them getting killed would have been high. Seems like a waste. But offmap, I'm not thinking of non-wasteful uses for them, beyond the one PRD.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Tuesday, August 01, 2023 - 07:36 am: Edit

Building conversion facilities (both major and minor) off-map might be a good use for your ENG. Even with limited income, I assume there are conversions you would like to do and loss of the non-capitol SBs limits the capacity to do that.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, August 01, 2023 - 10:36 am: Edit

Against my own self interest - my advice on the Kzinti COE is to build minor shipyards (FF, first). It's not doing anything else.

While often you might not have the EPs to take advantage of the extra shipyard capacity, the good part of doing this is that it's an extra hedge against loss of the capital. Also, once the Feds start the 20 EP/turn gravy train you might actually get real use out of them, even if the capital doesn't fall.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, August 01, 2023 - 10:48 am: Edit

CT5:

Klingon Eco

Lyran Eco

Eco highlights: Been rolling badly on the B10 so far. Klingons spent 72 (!) EPs on repairs. Coalition use CDR effectively (Klingons use CDR to convert D6M, D6E, FD7, D7C, 2*D6D; Lyrans convert CLG, 2*CLS, DWS, and DNL (though this last from a crippled CA doesn't get the 1 CDR bonus due to different hull type). Klingons build 2*D5V groups. Full builds both empires. MiSY started: 2*FF and MajCon by Lyrans; 1*F5 by Klingons. Klingon debt at 50. Lyrans at 30.

Raids: Raid against a lone FF in 1802 failed. Another raid in 1805 succeeded. Two raids in deep Hydran space succeeded.

Operational underway.

The Cyberboard game file if you wanted to try to view the map (you will need Cyberboard and the currently available game box).

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Tuesday, August 01, 2023 - 05:09 pm: Edit

lol, what Fed gravy train? I went through my whole game with Paul without sending a single EP. Fed aid consisted of repairing Kzinti ships, which they did frequently. Though that was basic rules. APT may make it somewhat more attractive. And if the Feds go to limited war on turns 7-9, it might make sense then, especially if any of the various mini-transports let us sneak the EP through in a single turn.

Do FF shipyards add to the number of FFK I can build, or just FF?

Jason, thank you very much for the conversion facility suggestion. That may well make sense, and they pair nicely with the PRD.

Multiple powers have indeed entered the era of the repair tsunami. The Kzinti can't gloat about the Klingon repairs, as the Kzinti have about 39EP worth they currently need to do. As a percentage of our economy, that's actually more than the Klingons just did

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Tuesday, August 01, 2023 - 10:53 pm: Edit

If it's set it as an FFK yard then it produces FFKs ...

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, August 02, 2023 - 04:30 am: Edit

Doesn't the Specific Rule (Limited X number of FFK and FKE's prior to turn Y) overule the ability to build extra FFK slipways?

or rather - you can build more FFK slipways - but your still limited to the total of FFK and FKE's built/converted that turn (so in effect, prior to turn Y happening, you build in the new slipway FFK's and do less subsitutions of FF's to FFK's.....)

i.e. Specific Rule trumps General Rule?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, August 02, 2023 - 10:26 am: Edit

You can build a FFK MiSY. However, as Paul Howard suggests, the specific rule that limits Kzinti to X number of FFK and FKE per turn prior to turn Y will limit the production from the MiSY.

Personally, the FF is just pincount. So, do that early and often.

If you don't like that idea, build a couple of CM yards first.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Wednesday, August 02, 2023 - 07:00 pm: Edit

Yea, there is a limit on how many FFKs/FKEs can be produced (three, two of either type by any means) until Y175F. Course, the Kzinti are limited to two FF/FFK/FH yards anyway ...

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, August 03, 2023 - 04:47 pm: Edit

@Stewart: True. Just produce the FFK/FKE at the MiSY once two are built. Then when Y175F rolls around you're producing nothing but FFK/FKE.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Friday, August 04, 2023 - 08:38 pm: Edit

Coalition turn 5 combat is done on the Kzinti front. The Coalition devastated the three minor planets in 1401 that had held out until now. They removed 3PDU from Kzintai. The Kzinti made the choice to kill big ships instead of letting the damage fall. I am still questioning that choice. Anyway the result is that we killed 8 big ships (CC and above) and also 2 prime teams. We lost a DNL and a few small ships. But Coalition crips from the battle were only about 20EP.

Fixed defenses on Kzintai are now 5PDU and 8PGB. This is probably too little. But before deciding what to do about it, I need to see where the Coalition sends its strat move builds and repairs. Obviously they are torn between my front and the Hydrans.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, August 05, 2023 - 06:29 am: Edit

So.... an attack on 1401 to capture it, is probably likely then?

Can the Kzinti afford to build 4 new PDU's?

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Saturday, August 05, 2023 - 08:39 am: Edit

Only by skipping almost all builds. But building 4 new PGB is an option and would still leave them with money for several builds. So it's a question of priorities.

Unclear about an attack on 1401 to capture it. It looks to me like they are trying to capture Hydrax. So as I mentioned, I need to watch their strats.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Saturday, August 12, 2023 - 04:45 pm: Edit

Coalition strats went mostly South. They even pulled 4FRD from the Kzinti front. So . . .

Kzinti economy, turn 5

From last turn 19EP, but also 20EP debt
Survey 47+13+2=62. Still only 3 survey ships. 3 provinces now.
Income 60
Interest 2
Repay debt 2
Available for spending 75

Repairs 44EP, including several at slipways

Builds:
4FF 10
3PGB 9 (Kzintai, now has 5PDU and 11PGB)
Subtotal 19

Conversions
BC>CVS 5 (FFF)
BC>CD 1 (CDR)
Captured D6M 3
Captured L-BC 3
Subtotal 12

Remaining 0, and 18EP debt for next turn

By Gary Quick (Northquick) on Monday, August 14, 2023 - 06:49 pm: Edit

Hydran Update

HT4
Income: 69
Builds: Pal(activate), TG, 2xHR, TR, FCR, 3xCU, HN, HNG, 2xPDU, 2xPGB
Convert: 2xLN > 2xDE, FRD > FRD+

The Hydrans spent a lot of time trying to figure out a way into the Coalition forward base, with the goal of eliminating 3xSAF there. However, the best we could count on was ~ 16 ships (mostly DD and FF). Lots(too many) Coalition ships around to react and to fight, so the Hydrans again pulled back and fortified.

HT5
Income: 53
Builds: RN, 4xHR, 3xCU, 4xPGB
Convert: HN > FCR

Decreasing income is taking a bite out of production. The good Coalition targets are heavily protected, and Hydrans elect to not go after secondary ones in a change from what I usually try to do (which is take down Lyran bases within range). Hydrans have been the weaker Alliance partner so far, though the battles in 0617 are starting to add up a little. 2 more SAF likely headed to 0617 in CT6. Other ships of note in the Hydran theater: 8x 10-point maulers, 6x DN-class, 5x D6D.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, August 15, 2023 - 10:20 pm: Edit

CT6: Coalition turns on the nitrus and goes into economic overdrive - Klingons will have 0.5 eco exhaustion next turn if they don't pay it down.

Repairs have been heavy. Much heavier than in my other games. Overall I've done much less to the Zin economy than I normally do - but it's cost William in ships. He's been fighting super hard everywhere on Coalition turns, forcing me to burn large numbers of cripples. As I said, the cost is his own enormous repair bill, which results in only a few ships of new production. Is this an effective strategy?

Time will tell. It's sure putting a strain on the Coalition economy and repair grid.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Tuesday, August 15, 2023 - 10:55 pm: Edit

Builds suck! At least when compared to repairs, lol.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, August 17, 2023 - 07:18 pm: Edit

This game has ended.

This thread may be deleted. Please archive it if you have been following it and care to save it.

Reason: Turns out all 3 of us were not particularly happy with the results of ignoring the simultaneity of combat revelations. We're not far in, so decided just to restart.

Please see the upcoming THF II thread...

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, August 18, 2023 - 05:57 am: Edit

What happened?

Are you using Slack to post the forces - as the two hidden message options does seem to work OK?

Yes, it is possible to in error click on the message 'too early' - or fail to use the correct tag to make it a hidden message (so I accept it's not infalable).

Only other option is to use a Password protected docuemnt and e-mail it - but that would slow the game down (accepting it might only be needed for relevant/key battles).

i.e. I assume you prefer this sort of approach
Player A sends their force details to Player B in a password protected document
Player B then publically confirms their force detals.
Player A confirms the password

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, August 21, 2023 - 11:47 am: Edit

Slack being used in the new TFH II game. In TFH I we simply, as indicated at the top, made the phasing player reveal all simultaneous decisions first, letting the non-phasing player make decisions accordingly. This ends up being too lopsided in favor of the Alliance.

None of us was liking the result. So the game was abandoned.

It's that simple.

Slack is helping a lot. Use the spoiler command to keep lines hidden until the opponent reveals. Still honor system, but it works just fine for Mensch such as Gary and William (and I also don't look until authorized...).

So far, working great.

FYI: Password document works just great. However, it takes too long in practice. We prefer the honor system and Slack's spoiler command. Works fine for us.

The password system would work for players who like full verification of simultaneity.