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The LGE can probably be stopped - it'll get pinned in Lyran space, so it'll just be a matter of putting something in its retrograde path to 1202. There isn't currently a clear retrograde path, so Karl will have to do something (which will allow me to send reserves). I have big reserves, so we can expect some fighting.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Monday, September 02, 2024 - 02:02 pm: Edit

Well after the ruling cleared up the last move, AT5 moves are finally finished. The LGE made it to Kzinti space but was stopped just short of Zimdars by a D7C. There are 8 battle hexes in Kzinti space, all adjacent to one another. The bewildered Hydran is right in the middle.
Speaking of silly mistakes, the Hydran EP convoy got stopped by an FF that reacted to a hex reachable by a reserve. So they'll probably lose some EPs from that mistake (additionally I forgot that a ship carrying EPs is required to be in the battle force.)
Otherwise not a whole lot going on in Hydran space; almost the entire Hydran navy is engaged, mainly in trying to evacuate cripples and the treasury and allow for forces to rearrange. There is a decently sized battle in 0618 where the remnant coalition fleet from last turn's Hydrax battle is attacking the remnants of the Hydran home fleet.
Lastly there is the fate of the Hydran supply tug; likely the scout will be sacrificed and the tug can retreat to join a couple of Kzinti frigates in an adjacent hex. They're unlikely to have a retrograde target in Kzinti space so it'll be another long slog to get that tug evacuated. It served it's purpose already in regards to the expedition but it would still be nice not to lose it (Hydran tugs have had an especially rough time this game.)

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Thursday, September 05, 2024 - 01:22 am: Edit

The Coalition was a little strapped for cash on C6.

Lyrans:

Built CA TGP 2CW CWE STJ DW DWE 4FF Colony (58 EP)

Repaired 2DN 2BC 5CC TGC 8CW CLS 2CL 5DD DDG 2FF D6M 2D5 7F5L (64 EP)

Converted CA->DNL CW->CVL (7 EP)

I made a DNL to save 2 EP (and avoid the no-double-dutch restriction).

Klingons:

Built C8 TGB D6M 3D5 MD5 AD5 4F5 F5G F5J Colony B10(roll) (86 EP)

Activated 2D6 E4 E4G (4 EP)

Repaired 2D6M 3D7C 7D7 D6V CVT D6J D6 7D5 7F5 4F5S F5G CW 2DD (62 EP)

Converted D5->D5V D6->D6D (3 EP)

The B10 is coming along nicely - it's half done after just 4 rolls!

---

Both the Klingons and the Lyrans have a substantial number of crippled ships remaining, but it's no longer an enormous number. Maybe 20 EP for the Lyrans and 30 for the Klingons.

The Expedition is all but certain now, with the LGE in 1704. The Kzinti have pulled 10 ships to the Marquis zone to ensure it gets through and have 18 cripples offmap. 3 more CVs in 1202 means that the capital is relatively undefended (there are still 30 ships with 87 ship based fighters plus two 6 ship reserves off map). I've yet to decide on a strategy there.

The Hydrans do not have any effective reserves and their fleet is anemic. They're likely to lose all of their on-map holdings (SB 3BATS Major 2Minor) this turn.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Thursday, September 05, 2024 - 05:15 pm: Edit

Hydrans are in a tough situation, but of course they mortgaged their homeland on getting that LGE to the Federation (poor decisions also didn't help.) Although the treasury has been safely evacuated to the Old Colonies (well, all except for ~1.5 EPs), I realize that the pod pool might still be in the on-map grid so that hangs in the balance. At this time with moves done CT6 in Hydran space, pretty much everywhere is pinned (including one reserve at 1st SB) and the Lyrans have set up a wall two ships deep to separate the off-map area. I don't know if all of the attacking coalition fleets are strong enough to win their objectives (since coalition pincount has been an issue and basically all remaining Hydran planets/bases are being attacked, many battles appear to be close.)
The Hydran theatre is relatively low-stakes since the treasury is safely out of reach. I don't actually know the fate of the pod pool though; in the basic ruleset it states that it can be decided where the pods are if a grid is divided (509.36), however in CO it makes mention that the pod pool is evacuated with the treasury when the capital falls (517.23). If it is in fact the latter, then I'll have the additional objective of saving the pods. That would also have been easier if I'd remembered to assign the one tug that moved by strategic movement (delivering EPs) to the off-map reserve, but I forgot that as well.
In the Kzinti theatre the expedition is all but certain (on turn 6, but better late than never.) There are decent enough reserves so if Sam decides to attack 1401 he will probably do some damage, but it's not so lightly defended that it's at risk of falling. 1202 has still never been taken so maybe that will be an objective (1001 and 1502 are also owned by the Kzinti but have no defenses.) There is also the option of attacking the Marquis area, since the Feds will be joining the war anyway... We'll see what Sam decides.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, September 07, 2024 - 01:45 am: Edit

Movement is done on C6!

I don't agree with Karl that any of the combat in Hydran space is risky for the Coalition. There are approximately 5 uncrippled ships in supply from the offmap, so there's no chance of reprisal on A6 (even if supply is reestablished, the Hydrans will be out of fighters). Therefore, the Coalition can take plenty of casualties - that seems to be my MO for this game. I guess we'll see.

Kzinti space has a bunch of little ships getting killed, as usual. But because there are so few ships in the capital (relatively), the Coalition has pinned 1202 again and sent every other available ship into 1401.

This time, if I want it, it's mine. Coalition defpot is 748 to the Alliance's 572, and the Kzinti only have three good carrier groups (the other two are probably CV+CLE+FF). It shouldn't take too much to push them off the line - at which point, there aren't many cruisers to fill it out.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, September 07, 2024 - 12:15 pm: Edit

What fixed defences remain in 1401?

A SB (although IIRC, the SB died earlier???) and say 4 PDU's over the capital planet will rapidly errode that Coalition advantage in Compot.

Rapid Combat Repair might also be useable??

If the Hydran LGE gets to Federation space on Alliance turn 6 - what can the Coalition attack the Feds on turn 7 with?

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Saturday, September 07, 2024 - 01:21 pm: Edit

1401 has one planet devastated in each system, and Kzintai has had 4PDUs stripped each turn that it has been attacked so it's down to just below the strength it starts on turn 1. SB is intact as well as the additional BATS that was built for free by the ENG the first few turns. The Kzinti FRD park is safely in the Barony though so RCR probably won't be a huge contributor.
I've no idea what turn 7 is going to look like. Obviously the Feds can't do a whole lot with their starting forces, but at present all coalition forces in Kzinti space are engaged and there will need to be diversion of assets toward NE Klingon space for defense turn 6. The East fleet is spread mainly across the southern Fed/Klingon border. There are enough repairs/new builds to put together a few strong reserves on the Klingon end for defense. It will be hard to cover everything though.
It looks like Sam's strategy this turn is to throw everything left at the Hydrans and Kzinti to weaken them as much as possible, which I think is a resonable take. There is a major effort for 1401 but I don't know how far that will go. The only other battle in Kzinti space is 1202 but it appears to just be a pinning force attacking there. Sam will have to make a decision about how far to go in 1401, as each ship crippled there is not available for defense next turn, much less for making incursions into Federation space.
The Hydrans will (probably) lose everything but my statement about coalition risk is in regards to the fact that most of the battles are fairly evenly-matched (well except for the BATS) so not only is there risk of potentially not achieving objectives in one or two hexes, but casualties will be higher than if it was just a couple of lopsided Coalition victories.
The Coalition did move a MB into Hydrax this turn and there is probably little the Hyrdans will be able to do to stop it. The Coalition already ran into a budget shortfall this turn and Fed entry will only make that worse, so hopefully the allies get a little breathing room as the coalition runs out of money. Speaking of money, the Hydrans did get their treasury off-map and look forward to building the IC in a few turns. Overall the coalition is definitely dictating how things go in the Hydran theatre, but there's not exactly a whole lot the Hydrans can do about it.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, September 07, 2024 - 03:04 pm: Edit

Well, to be precise: Kzintai has 3PDU 2PGB SB and BS+FTM. So that's 92 extra compot R1 - respectable, for sure.

By my count, the Klingons have 42 ships eligible for free strategic movement (and a number more - like the East Fleet) that haven't moved. So it's likely that a) they'll have 4 full reserves, and b) all those reserves will be able to reach the Feds.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, September 07, 2024 - 04:31 pm: Edit

Well, outside not defending the capital with the main force - 1401 looks like it is safe even if the PDU/PGB's only last 2 round in total.

The problem for the Coalition will be that the Federation Home Fleet will be able to Strat Move 30 ships and new builds (yes it will cost 15 Ep's - but thats 2 strong reserve fleets guarding the SB's ans 1 cover the front in general) - and everything else in the Home Fleet can Op move closer to the front line.

Turn 7 could well see a strong Federation attack into Coalition space (turn 6 may or may not be worth it with the 2 available fleets depending on Coaltion reserves!).


We live in interesting times!

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Saturday, September 07, 2024 - 04:40 pm: Edit

Engineers can't work in the capital hex.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, September 07, 2024 - 05:12 pm: Edit

In the Hydran capital assault on C4, the Coalition had nearly the same defpot as the Hydrans and nearly won. This battle I've got substantially more, so I'm in even better shape. It might be costly, but if the question is whether the Coalition can take the capital, the answer is yes. Whether I should... is a little less clear.

However, with the Federation joining, I think this is my last real chance to take Kzintai for a while. Taking the capital is worth at least 90 EP (plus denied EPs for holding the planets), so strictly from an economic standpoint crippling my fleet to take 1401 is worth it.

The Klingons have enough ships available that I doubt I'll lose anything significant on A6. The Klingons do not have enough ships available to make a strong attack on C7, but I think I'm okay with that. If nothing else, I'll be able to pull most of the Klingons off of the Hydran front soon.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, September 08, 2024 - 04:57 am: Edit

Sam

As myself and others pointed out - the Alliance seems to have defeneded badly - as the Defender should always do alot more damage over the Capital planet (2-3 x as much in the early rounds and then +40% until the SB dies) - but defending side planets with 'good ships' does marginally more damage in the side systems - but alot less damage over the Capital.

Only time when the attacker might start to get closer to 'equal' damage is when the SB is dead and they still have a DN/BC heavy line against a modest defending line.

As Karl - I would weork out how to sustain 5 good lines (so the drop damage initially will not work - you have to kil lthe PDU's and so that takes it to 7 rounds of good Kzinti compot) over the Capital planet and allocate enough ships to the Static Force over the capital to provide the bulk of the required ships (60%+) - the balance comes from the Mobile force.

No major static ships should be outside of the capital.

In other words - every TGC+BP and most DN's, the good scouts and CV groups should be allocated to defend the Capital.

The other major planets might warrant a DN (as flag) and CVL groups - but the hex will be won or lost over the capital - so why risk?

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Tuesday, September 10, 2024 - 12:42 pm: Edit

Forgot the ENG did that off-map for extra repair capacity. The BATS in the capital was in fact built by 3FFTs. (Seems forever ago.)
In regards to defending outer planets; two things for consideration are that the PDUs are untouched; 18 COMPOT and 2EW isn't a lot, but matched with a decent fleet will make taking the planet more painful for the coalition. It should be enough to kill a mauler or CC etc. Otherwise the coalition essentially gets the planet for free. I also have 4 DNs in the hex, and am not going to put them on the line outside of form unless it's the showdown at Kzintai. I would consider it a waste of resources to keep those DNs in reserve for a what if scenario. Yes the fleet will take some damage but it's also not like I'm going to fight to the death for a minor planet (or even a major, really.) A round or two depending on how they roll helps to soften up their lines for later.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, September 10, 2024 - 01:07 pm: Edit

Well, my 2p would be, unless the Kzinti can put up a full line for every planet under attack - the Minors will have to be given up.

A strong Coalition attack line could easily have more compot (and probably EW) than the Alliance defending a Minor planet - and so a couple of rounds with BIR doing down and simialr rolls, the Coalition could come out far ahead...... which might risk the capital falling (but with the other defences, I think thats unlikely - but crucially not impossible).

Putting up a weak line just allows the Coalition to kill a ship cheaply (or let damage fall and force the Kinti to self cripple ships....).

Have the dice gods been nice so far??

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Friday, September 20, 2024 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Well the Kzintai assault is ongoing, now on round 12...I have been shocked at how much Sam is willing to cripple, at this point the only ships left in the Coalition fleet are heavy cruisers + variants. Also the Lyran ships are out of supply for the battle, so I have been directing them as much as possible to deny them salvage. It's probably just made Sam mad though.
The capital SB was just SIDSed into crippled status, and there was a D6M held back for the express purpose of trying to one-shot the base.
Hydran space is resolved at this point; the planets and remaining BATS were taken as expected, the only major fight was at the 1st Fleet SB, which is still standing (although it has 6 SIDS I believe). There is also a wall of pickets separating the Old Colonies to everywhere else held in Hydran hands (tentacles?) so at least the SB is there to collect the remaining EPs and do some repairs next round.
The defensive posture the Klingons in particular take will be interesting given Fed entry; I know there are enough builds/repaired ships to fill out full reserves, but otherwise pretty much everything in Klingon space is committed to the Kzinti or Hydran theatres.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, September 21, 2024 - 03:51 am: Edit

Two questions

1) WIll 1401 fall?

2) Why is the Kzinti willing to risk losing 1401 to deny the Lyrans Salvage?

Those Lyran ships will not be able to retrograde - and so surely, leaving them next to 1401 makes sense - as they will then also be out of action for turn 7??

OK three questions - what defences (if any) are left and what are the compot lines like now?

In other words - killing 40 Ep's of ships which generate no salvage, could cost the Kzinti 90 Ep's in a new ship yard cost.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Saturday, September 21, 2024 - 06:53 am: Edit

1401 is not in danger of falling this turn; the primary objective of the coalition I believe was to take out the SB over Kzintai, which has just been done. Kzintai itself still has 3PDUs and the BS, which will potentially be targeted next. The Coalition are down to less than 30 ships (which are mostly variants), crippling carrier lines now to satisfy damage...Kzinti COMPOT has been 40-50 points higher than the Coalition each round, but now that the SB is gone it will be closer if Sam chooses to continue fighting.
There is also an untouched Major (Vielsalm?) which has a full line of static ships. The coalition ships would be hard pressed to finish the job at Kzintai this turn much less take the other system as well and force the home fleet out of the hex. As it is, the Kzinti have only taken 4-5 cripples in this battle.
The loss of the SB clearly is a blow to the capital, but nothing that can't be rebuilt. With directing the Lyrans, their remaining fleet is down to 7 ships so the Klingons will be tasked with handling Kzinti space, which will be more difficult given the ~50 cripples taken over in 1401 and arrival of reinforcements next turn.
Still, I don't think Sam had much of a choice. This is the last turn Kzintai will be an "easy target" so he needed to make the most of it.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Saturday, September 21, 2024 - 06:58 am: Edit

I have been experimenting this game as the Alliance of directing vs. letting damage fall, which is pretty much the most difficult tactical choice faced by either side. Previous turns I have just let the damage fall, which may have forced them out a few rounds sooner but also resulted in fewer losses for the coalition. Those ships all can (and have been) repaired and sent back for another try a few turns later.
This turn I have been directing key coalition ships to reduce COMPOT density or EW or whatever seems most important (and what is an easy target.) I don't *feel* like this was a mistake; the Kzinti have held the COMPOT and EW advantage the entire battle. But would the SB still be standing if I just let the damage fall? Hard to say.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Saturday, September 21, 2024 - 08:30 am: Edit

Yes, it's a tough decision.

I think it's usually right to let fall if doing so will result in you holding whatever is under attack (base, planet, etc).

But if the base or planet is lost no matter what you do, you probably need to direct on key ships.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, September 21, 2024 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Well, thats the fun of the game - always different choices to make!

If 1401 is safe this turn - that does make a big difference.

As you said, if the SB was still alive, taking the hex is far more difficult - as it's far more than just a numbers game then.

With just afew PDU's - it does become a numbers game - defender has X Ships - attacker needs X ships plus 10 etc to take it.

With a SB, the 'plus number' is alot bigger....

What do you think Sam's objective is then?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, September 21, 2024 - 10:29 pm: Edit

Yeah, 1401 was a big miscalculation on my part - I left the SB untouched for three rounds after mauling the PDUs (one I let damage drop; not sure what I was thinking and the other two I killed troop auxiliaries), so I took a lot more damage than I needed to. I was fairly confident going in that I could at least get rid of all the defenses and devastate everything (and I thought I had a chance of taking it), which was clearly a miscalculation on my part.

But removing the SB (and the second SB being away from the planet, if it's built) does mean that I'll have a much easier time when I come back. I think directing Lyran ships was probably the right call. I did get Karl to kill D6G 3F5G, so I'm pretty happy with that (F5Gs are 3 EP for 16 damage, better even than crippling 3F5!).

Kzintai has 3PGB, not 3PDU (which is why I didn't direct them - I was considering killing them with Gs but Karl directed all of those).

I'm kind of disappointed I didn't kill SB1017, but it's barely even an issue. The Hydrans will have 4 EP there and are down a fair number of fighters, so there's little chance of meaningful repairs being made or ships arriving to bolster the defense before I finish it off next turn. In fact, I could see Karl abandoning it so as to not have his fleet trapped out of supply for longer.

I have another huge stack of cripples (6D7 5D6 16D5 D5S 10F5L 8F5 CVT 4E4 2E4A - 78.5 EP) from 1401. As that's effectively been my strategy this game, I can't say that I'm overly concerned by it.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, September 22, 2024 - 05:10 am: Edit

Well in my game with William, I overestimated 4 or 5 times how easy it was going to be kill just a SB (the same SB!!) - came close a couple of times, but it's amazing how easy it is to be "suckered in" and think "just one more round"!

A stack of hulls doesn't show anything..... finding half of your 30 ship advantage are 4 or 5 point hulls AND the other side has more 8 compot hulls than you do..... isn't a good start

(Yes, been there, got the multiple T-Shirts...).

With the Feds shortly to enter the game - how you going to play 603.54?

(i.e. an Aggresive Federation could keep the Gorns out of the game).

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Monday, September 23, 2024 - 12:45 pm: Edit

I forgot to mention a couple things that happened at the end of the turn. The Lyrans have placed 2 MBs - 1013 and 0617, so there are two MBs currently being set up over Hydrax and Lyran supply to Hydran space will no longer rely on 0212 (it would still be a pain to lose the BATS, of course).

Lyran reserves are in 0502, 0707, and 0212. There may not be opportunities to use these, but it's better having them than not. Klingon reserves are in 1307, 1509, 1611, and 1916.

An attack on the FRD park in 1307 is just barely possible, but with 3 reserves in range (not counting the one in 1307) and how this would necessitate the Feds attacking the Klingons to have any chance of success, I don't think it likely. 1307 is up to 5 FRDs again, and most of the cripples elsewhere on the map are in a position to be repaired (there are a dozen cripples in 0617 with no access to repair facilities).

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, September 23, 2024 - 03:39 pm: Edit

I really don't know if 603.54 being activated is worth trying to kill the FRD park?

If it works, it will put a big crimp on the Coalition in the North - but giving the Romulans free reign to attack the Feds and ignore the Gorns 100% is probably a greater gain for the Coalition than the Hydran Expedition succeeding for the Alliance (especially as the cost was high on the Hydrans!).

Far better to get two full reserves on the Federation Border (possibly even half a reserve on 1704 led by the CVA and a Fed CVL or 2, with the rest of the Kzinti Marquis fleet) and as much as possible of the Fed Home Fleet Strat moving to the border?

If the Fed's do well enough for several turns in Kzinti space, they could just attack the Lyrans!

Million Dollar question will be, will the Alliance be able get a Strategic Movement path into 1401 and so have 6+ of the best Fed Ships there?

Hydrans remain in a world of pain (as always) - but keeping a fleet intact will hopefully keep the Coalition 'honest' down there?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Sunday, September 29, 2024 - 12:30 am: Edit

Well! The Kzinti and Feds attack 5 BATS and 1 minor (2216). I can contest all of them. I'm certain that I'll lose at least one, probably more, but definitely not all of them. There are still some Kzinti that can still move, but all the Feds in range have already moved.

The Hydrans are attacking the minor in 1514. I haven't yet decided whether I'll send a reserve to defend it or one of the BATS under attack. It won't take much to save, but it does pull ships away from the Federation. This force includes a PAL (which can make it back to Hydran space, probably) - but notably, it's not retreating back toward the Hydran offmap.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, September 29, 2024 - 09:05 am: Edit

So the Feds have attacked the Klingons by the looks of things?

Honest question - is it worth it?

(i.e. alhough probably good to lengthen the game following a succesful expedition, it does mean the Gorn's will not enter the War unless attacked).

Is there a Strategic Movement Route to 1401?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Sunday, September 29, 2024 - 04:10 pm: Edit

If the Feds don't join in, I could choose to not attack them and finish my conquest of the Kzinti, followed by a C7 or C8 attack on the Federation. At that point, it's likely that the Coalition would be entirely focussed on the Federation and they'd have a difficult time defending.

It's totally plausible that the current scenario is preferable to a C8 attack on the Federation (because maybe the Kzinti keep their capital; maybe the Klingons have to be more spread out, etc.). I think it likely that I would have attacked the Federation on C7 - which would probably be better for the Alliance than the current situation.

The Klingons have not even tried to block off the Marquis' zone this game. I could block off the path to 1401 by sending a reserve to 1502 (or hope that E4A can beat DN FF). Of course, that's one fewer reserve defending Klingon bases, so I don't know how valuable it would be.

----

Broadly, I think there are three scenarios where the Federation should go on the attack following a successful Expedition:

- Attacking would prevent the Coalition from taking Hydrax (without leaving the Klingons vulnerable to the Federation).

- The Klingons have multiple turns worth of cripples, and not attacking would allow the Klingons to regroup.

- The Expedition succeeded on A4.

Since none of these are met, I don't think that it's the right call. But hey - I've been wrong before!

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, September 29, 2024 - 04:47 pm: Edit

The Feds don't need to attack Klingon space (as far as I know) - they just attack any Coalition forces in Kzinti space.

As fas as I can tell - thay doesn't activate 603.54 - which is perhaps a relatively easy way for the Coalitoon to still win - even with a succesful expedition.

19 Federation Ships (as Kzinti Stragetic Movement will be limited to 5, due to the loss of the 3 SB's) in 1401 will make it much more difficult to take - especilly with up to 2 possible Federation reserves joining in!