Is there any interest in a set of rules whereby you could postpone or cut the recovery period of your exhaustion by spending EPs or sacrificing ships or bases? I know in discussion that we've touched on that about how the various empires would repair their economies post-war, but would it be useful or meaningful to have those kinds of rules available for use during the war itself?

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 11:23 am: Edit

You are talking about a set of rules that, at least originally, addressed the long term effects of massive government spending on the general economy of star empires.

Specifically, two options proposed, increased spending( payment of Economic points, or sacrificing ships or bases (possibly an attempt at austerity program.)

To the first part, spending money. (Or in this case, resources) is what led go the problem in the first place. Opinions will vary, but the classic example is Wiemar Germany in the 1920’s and it led to hyper inflation. (Definitely not a good idea.)

The second, is a short term fix that ultimately would weaken the empire.

The goal, it seems to me, is to reduce the burden of economic exhaustion, not make it worse.

The existing rules seem to cover all the possible options.

True, when fighting a war, entrenching within the borders of the empire does nothing to prosecute the war, but it does heal the economy.

Unless you can come up with another approach, it is difficult to see any meaningful alternative.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, March 10, 2025 - 10:08 am: Edit

Existing F&E rules allow you to "pay down" exhaustion. You have to go to limited war or peacetime economy for recovery.

The big limitation of doing so, other than having very little money for the military, is the restrictions that are placed on military operations outside the home territory of the empire that went to Lim War or Peace. Nevertheless, it can be done already.

You should check those restrictions and then come up with a specific proposal, if you had something else in mind.

By Ahmad Abdel-Hameed (Madarab) on Monday, March 10, 2025 - 09:10 pm: Edit

My thoughts on this are kind of muddled; so I'll put it on the back burner while I let my subconscious toy around with it.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, March 10, 2025 - 11:21 pm: Edit

While I would not necessarily expect such a thing to play a role during the General War itself, it might be something that could be said to have some sort of impact on the Andromedan War.

As per (625.515), most Alliance and Coalitoin belligerents are only able to start "paying down" their economic exhaustion in Spring Y186. (The Tholians and Seltorians are still at war by then, so the Holdfast cannot start its own recovery until after the Torch expedition is defeated.)

We don't yet know by which means this post-General War recovery takes place, beyond the historical outline offered in that same rule. However, since the former belligerents are limited to 25% of their "standard" income under (625.511), this might indicate how differently this recovery process is to go, relative to what the current rules account for.

But, it's worth noting that, historically at least, the "eastern" theatre of the General War essentially reduced to a trickle in the wake of the disaster at Remus. The Romulans were in no shape to go on any sort of serious offensive; both they and the Gorns were increasingly obliged to send ships to watch their respective ISC borders; while the Federation was shifting their strategic focus towards the Klingon front.

And yet, the bad blood generated by the calamity at Remus prevented the Romulans from going so far as to agree to a formal ceasefire, at least not prior to the historical end of the General War. Plus, the subsequent outbreak of the Civil War might not have helped their recovery any...

My point being that, since the Andromedan invasion broke out in various phases historically - with the ISC struck first, the Hydrans and Romulans hit relatively early after this, and the Federation and Klingons not gotten around to until Y192 - whatever recovery rate the Andro War rules are to allow for shall run headlong into the pace at which the Andros decide to target the empire in question.

But, if, say, the Romulan player was to declare a formal ceasefire in a player game prior to Spring Y185, and if the Alliance player(s) were to accept this, in theory the Romulans could begin to "buy down" their exhaustion earlier - and, thus, be in a somewhat better shape to face the Andromedans once the invasion breaks out across Romulan space.

This would not do the Gorn or Federation economies any immediate favours - unless the Gorns were to exit the war early in turn. But, in the longer term, it might help the Alpha Octant at large stem the tide of Andromedan conquest from a slightly better at-start position.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 05:57 pm: Edit

For the upcoming Civil Wars you will remember from the Capt Log publication the Romulans were in just this sort of "recovery" exhaustion econ level when their internal struggle for power started/ISC incursion began. That said outside of the existing rules Ted mentioned there is no easy method for making big gains. War comes with a price