Hey, that was what the "Legendary War Bird Plasma Torpedo Crew Family From 200 years ago" started with.

We don't need to go there.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 01:25 pm: Edit

What, CATNIP?

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 01:29 pm: Edit

No, being silly like that.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 02:39 pm: Edit

Who's silly?

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 04:16 pm: Edit

I was looking over the Andro Rules this weekend.

Apparently, Motherships can convert upto 4 Sat-Factors, to 4 EW factors.

Only Dominator-Hulls can convert upto 4 Sat-Factors, to "Mauler Factors".

So Andro Mauler's are only on DOM's, and only a bonus of 4 damage max.

So you could have a Dominator with 24 Sat-Factors, 4EW, 4Mauler. An Intruder with 11 Sat-Factors, 4EW.

If anyone cares....

By David Slatter (Davidas) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 08:13 am: Edit

The 4sat-factor->EW is one of the Andro strengths - it's relatively easy for them to crank out 8EW. They however don't get the scout slot, which is a major disadvantage.

By Chris LaRusso (Soulcatcher) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 11:49 am: Edit

Have any of you guys ever played Operation Unity in SFB?

It's obvious to me that some of you haven't.

The Galactics can only send one Battle Force per route, while attacking. Sure they have reserves, but these reserves are actually strategic, not F&E battle reserves. These reserves should be taken from strategic movement of the races sending those ships.

So, That being said, the Galactics would only get to field ONE battle Force. However, fight as long as you want.

2 dominators ARE something to be feared.

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 12:40 pm: Edit

I'm pretty familiar with the Op Unity campaign.

The problem in thinking about Op Unity (and Andro battles in general) in F&E is that 1 round is a weeks worth of battles. So, that 1 battle in Op Unity is actually only 1 round in F&E. It's difficult to translate the cool things about Andros into F&E terms because of this...

And 2xDOMs are truly scary, but
2xDOMs
vs
4CVA(admiral), SC, 3xCX, BG[6xDDX]
is a cake walk for the Feds, and is certainly doable by the time the Andros are built up.

That's my biggest problem with getting the Andros into F&E - they just can't deal with "monster" lines; they only scale up so much...

By Chris LaRusso (Soulcatcher) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 01:53 pm: Edit

PA PANELS
I'll agree with the SVC on PA panels- Do not include them.

However, some things need to be discussed about minus points. Andros effectively ignore minus points if they only have one mother ship(MS). Currently the max minus points you can carry over between battle rounds is -7.

However, i have to ask, if the Andros have a base or second MS what then? Should the Andros get a reduction(towards zero) in the allowed minus points it can carry over between battle rounds. This might be based on the mother/satelite ship.

And/ or should Andros have a required minimum amount of damage points to take satelite ship casualties?

***My thoughts would be minimum damage of 3 if it only carries Small Sat ships, 4, medium, 5 Large. Andros can ignore this many minus points per round.

COMMAND POINTS FOR ANDROS and RESERVES
Allow use of command points and reserves for andros in only these situations:
Attacking to capture a planet hex (1 CP limit).
Attacking to capture a Capital or part (2 CP per planet).
Defending a SB(limit 2 CP).
Defending a SMN (Strategic Movement Node( limit 1CP). Reserves allowed if a RAID.

Each command point allows the use of adding one mother ships (there is still the DisDev use limit and 2 DOM limit in the battle line- except maybe at a capital where it is 3)


BATTLE INTENSITY ADJUSTMENT (or COMPOT ADJ, die adj) for ANDROS.

Plasma Races:
-2 to die roll (maybe only -1)
[I've seen too many CON, ISC CX die on the plasma route]
KZINTI:
No drone bonus
[rationale, Kzins have higher % of special drones and can have all extended range and some III frames. All drones will be fast. Though Andros can employ t-bombs better to kill stacks of drones, this means captains will just make drones into lots of small stacks. T-Bombs won't last the whole battle, and cost money. Andro T-bombs are there own rule.
***I suggest the Andros get 4 (or more T-Bomb) points to direct against ships, fighters, or drone bombardment reduction, Plasma ship reduction (needs definition) or Kzin X-ship bonus reduction
Note this reduction is still at at 2-1 for directed damage.
Maybe make this per mother ship.

comments?

By David Lang (Dlang) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 01:55 pm: Edit

Chris, the galactic powers need to knock back the andros in the main galaxy before they can launch op unity, that's where we have been focusing, how can the andros be a threat against the main fleets, not just the op-unity fleets

By Chris LaRusso (Soulcatcher) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 01:58 pm: Edit

What's an Andro PDU look like? (In F&E terms I'm not joking)

By David Lang (Dlang) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 02:02 pm: Edit

Chris, andros have sat bases in various configs, but no PDU's that I am aware of

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Andro's do have ground bases (see Module C3).

It would presumably be a 3(9).

Figuring 6 MWPs (from Module J2). If you count each MWP as a 1.5 COMPOT unit.

I think the Andro BATS should be like a 18-27 (27+) or so (The base w/ 3 Satelite Bases+Core Module) Sat Ship factors being MWPs). It has a vicious amount of PA panels that can suck up energy.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 04:20 pm: Edit

I'd actually rate the Andro BATS at around 24 or so. That thing is evil, especially with a Temporal Elevator.

Also, for F&E purposes I would make the MWPs 2 compot units, just like PFs. They can take more damage than your regualr PF thus would be able to fight longer.

By Douglas E. Lampert (Dlampert) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 04:48 pm: Edit

I do not see the MWP as a 2 point unit, it simply lacks the firepower, IIRC if you put 4 of those puppies up against a CA and they may not even bust a shield. They have no booster packs IIRC, so they are also short on power and lack PF mobility. The combat BPV of a standard PF flotila is on the order of 330, six MWP are about 150 IIRC. I think the MWP are 1 ComPot each, they are as much the Andro fighter as the Andro PF.

Even 1 ComPot each may be too high, they need to be no better than the SatShips they replace given SVC's idea of using 'generic' SatShip factors. Someone can figure out based on the proposed Andro factors how much a standard SatShip is worth and based on J2 how many MWP replace it.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 04:54 pm: Edit

WEll assuming that the Motherships will all have satship factors that are treated like fighters, I guess it doesn;t really matter.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 04:57 pm: Edit

Although, they could come in somewhere. They would take as much damage to kill as a PF, so maybe 1-2 each.

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 01:41 pm: Edit

Anyone want to give a general idea of the capabilities of the MWP?
# front PA
# rear PA
# ph-2
# TRL (if any)
anything else of interest.

Without having seen them, I'd guess maybe 4xPh-2, 3 front PA, 2 rear PA. If that's the case, they should definitely be a "2" unit (or "1-2"). 20 SFB damage would kill a F&E fighter factor, but 20 points won't even get through PAs on this.

Add in synergy with Andro fleets (which have always had a big weakness in phaser defensive firepower) and these would be pretty useful...

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 01:49 pm: Edit

2 PA, 2Ph-2 or 2TRL (and it shocks), 4 Warp, 1Impulse, 2hull, 2Batts

Edit: changed the stats a litte, but you'll notice, they don't last long on power w/o the Mothership juicing them up every now and then.

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 02:01 pm: Edit

hmm... too big for a 1, not big enough for a 2.

Although, I'd take the 2xTRL version any day. Shock? Who cares - I'm dead anyway!

By Douglas E. Lampert (Dlampert) on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 10:42 pm: Edit

Is it really too big for a one, two Stinger II megafighters are only a 1 in the same time period when these are out, and will take this puppy apart.

The big problem with the two TRL version is lack of power, note the lack of packs on this thing. It is a one.

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 06:18 pm: Edit

I see 2xbatteries. That's 10 power right there.

2xStinger II megafighters would of course take this appart at range 1 (heck - they'd take appart most CAs).

However, at range 10, those stingers wouldn't get past PA panels...

By Craig Tenhoff (Cktenhoff) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 01:05 pm: Edit

I can't remember if this was suggested before, so here goes.

What if One Andro ship could operate satellite ships from the Support Echelon? This would allow them to add roughly 20-35 compot, depending on what is available to feed units forward.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 02:35 pm: Edit

I don't think you could have 3 ships operating DD close enough to make that a possibility, the support echalon is close enough to be targeted from the main battle

By Douglas E. Lampert (Dlampert) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Having looked more at the MWP SSD: 2 ComPot HAS to be a bad joke, 1 ComPot is probably too generous.

2xbatteries is 10 power but the power in the batteries is USELESS for the two things you most need power for. It does not help you move, it does not help you defend (you cannot dump), and your weapons throughput is so low that Galactic Bats + Packs would be good better for that. The sole effect of those batteries is that for one turn you can have a decent EW status. But since you accept lending as individual units rather than as a squadron you will never get an EW advantage.

These units move 21 or LESS, they cannot avoid drones and they cannot kill them, they cannot avoid stingers, they cannot kill them at range, they cannot avoid plasma, and if you took the TRL model they cannot damage it. They have 20 points of shielding TOTAL (about the same as the front on an interceptor, but the interceptor can reincorce or turn to present a new shield), they have 18 internals including the PAs and ALL tracks. There is not a race out there where I would not bet on two Y180+ common model megafighters against each of these too win.

Doug