well I was not online at that time....I been with this game from the 1st 8 by 10.5 paperback with the white and gary cover....and I'm still here ok...and from the doomday rulebook that i waht i'm going by ...hey I'm a day late and dollar short ok......but if i remember right they DID not build any ships they was all in route to here a 100 yrs ago

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 02:01 pm: Edit

Michael,

The Andro's not only took things (to steal) but in addition captured things, denying it to the GP forces, denying their income and production (and important factor when trying to conquer a race).

Remember, the "Andro War" is from (about) Y190->205. 15 Years, or 30 (yes 30) F+E turns.

It's a long time for things to happen, and also, for history to be written. Because much of that time has not even had pen put to paper.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 02:07 pm: Edit

Michael, we realize that you missed the earlier discussion (if you hadn't you wouldn't be asking the question ) but please realize that when we make what seems like a short response it's frequently becouse the discussion has been held at least once and we are giving the answer that came out of those discussions.

if you don't understand an answer please ask for clarification and someone can give an outline of the prior discussion (like I just did here)

By Michael H.Oliver (Mholiver) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 02:48 pm: Edit

yes i know missed a lot ok and thank you and yes i understand trying to pull some of my idea out here ..ok clear up this then

The andro was in route to this system a 100 yrs ago y90 right..that is what i was thinking

By Jimi LaForm (Laform) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 02:57 pm: Edit

They were, but when they got here they conquered territory, attacked homeworlds. Destroyed the LDR. Nearly destroyed the ISC.

By Michael H.Oliver (Mholiver) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 03:07 pm: Edit

the part about the ISC donot remember ok ... the LDR i do ( lyran player)......so alll the ships they was going to used wae heading here then....right
Territory i knew about ...the attacks on homeworlds the only one was klingon homeworld right ...that is all I know on this part ..you got a site that give me more info on th history on the Andro

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Abridged History of SFB universe:

http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/general_war.htm

What happened to the ISC was this, 80+% of their fleet was off on the Pacification, when the Andro's struck. Cutting it all off from the Home Territory, thus not much got back alive, meaning lots of lost ships, and not much left to prevent the Andro's from running rampant over ISC space

By Michael H.Oliver (Mholiver) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 03:23 pm: Edit

ok all the races ran them self into the ground and the ISC hit then and here come the BAD BOYS make a long story short..then all the race jion together to kick the bad boys out ok got it

By Eric Stork (Merchant) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 10:15 pm: Edit

Scott, nothing in that history says any what you post (80% fleet cut off, run rampant over ISC space).

(R13.1A), near the end, does say 2/3s (66.67%) were destroyed. (R10.1B) fourth paragraph states that Romulan, Gorn, ISC, Lyran and Hydran empires were reduced to a dozen hexes around the repective capitals because initial Andromedan attacks focused on those races, especially the Romulans who were reduced from the Civil War. The Federation looks, from text, to have somehow gotten an Andro promise to leave the Feds alone, which the Andros broke. And there was a Federation-Klingon alliance. But the Feds, Kzinti and Klingons were not reduced as the other races.

By Jeff Laikind (J_Laikind) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:46 pm: Edit

Michael,
The andro was in route to this system a 100 yrs ago y90 right..that is what i was thinking

There is a project for the Lesser Magellenic Cloud races designed primarily by Ken Burnside. Because of it the Andromedan history may be expanded to account for conquering the LMC races first. As you'll recall from the B10, SFB history doesn't stay in one place if there's a good reason to adjust it.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 03:18 am: Edit

Eric, there is a referance to the echalon of justice (complete X echalon) that raced back from hydran space to arrive at the ISC capitol just in time to save it from falling

By Michael H.Oliver (Mholiver) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 10:03 am: Edit

ok which history line in right guys

By David Lang (Dlang) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Michael, you need to give more context for your question. are you asking about the andro invasion or the ISC (both appear in the recent posts)

By Michael H.Oliver (Mholiver) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 09:56 am: Edit

yyes ...sorry it was pointed at both Scott and Eric say about the time line...and yes on both invasion ..
plus I know The ISC is not on this site...the histroy of this area is new to me from what I have in the old books

By David Lang (Dlang) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 08:56 pm: Edit

here's how I understand the history

for many years the andros were a 'monster' type of encounter, you never knew when one would pop up, but you very rarely saw them

the ISC discovered the romulans and gorn from detecting the energy releases from battles, they built a self defense force (the heavy ships of which were the CS, IIRC) and defended their borders from any incusions. the ISC sent diplomats out to all the known races (or at least as far as klingon space), discovered that there were a LOT of insane races in the galaxy and basicly withdrew to design their ships, the echalon and lay their plans to pacify the galaxy

the general war ends and the ISC decide to step in. they deploy their bases all the way to hydran space in less then 2 years, pushing all the races back a bit in the process (to the orange borders on the F&E map)

then the main andro invasion hits and chops up the ISC supply line (R-10 mentions that pockets of it survive so it would seem that they don't instantly obliterate it). portions of the fleet race back to ISC space (the X-echalon of judgement races back from hydran space to help keep the ISC capitol from falling)

the andros obliterate the LDR and make major inroades towards taking over the galaxy (pushing the major races back to a dozen or so F&E hexes each, substantially smaller areas then the space they held during the ISC pacification)

the galactics fight the andros to a standstill and then discover the RTN network. they launch a search-and-destroy program against the RTN and slowly roll it up.

they discover the routes back to the LMC and manage to scrape togeather three mediocre fleets to send up them to try and knock out the source of the ships (operation unity. the fleets given in the senerio are pretty poor by F&E standards) and they manage to get through

from the time of the main invasion (at the end of the 2 year ISC pacification) to the end of operation unity is something like 30 F&E turns (15+ years) and even after operation unity the andros were a threat for years, just a minor threat fading back to monster threat.

how does this synopsis look to others?

By Richard Abbott (Catwhoorg) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 08:56 pm: Edit

<moved from wrong topic>

Andro suggestion.

When taking enough damage to flip the counter roll two dice. On a 2 or 3 the ship is not killed, but the damage is resolved.

Accounts for the possibility of the DisDev getting it the heck out of dodge.

2 or 3 gives a 1 in 12 chance, which can be adjusted.

Another thought, is to have split factors, increasing the AF by 20% to account for the late war lines, but maybe the DF by 30-40% to soak up some of that damage that a crippled side would have had.

By Jimi LaForm (Laform) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 10:41 am: Edit

I think the Andro ships should consider having split offensive factors (similar to the D6 hulls). Maybe a 25-30 for the Dom (just throwing numbers out there). The two die roll idea is a good one, though should be better then a 2 or 3 on 12... more like 4 or 5 as the disdev works way more often then it fails... damnable Andros!

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 11:42 am: Edit

Yeah - I'd think that a higher percentage than 2 on 2d6 would be appropriate. I'd go even as high as 6 or 7.

Remember, they aren't getting a crippled side, so it should be a reasonable chance.

Another thought is (partial rewrite of Richard's post above - not trying to claim credit for it):

When taking enough damage to flip the counter roll two dice. On a 10 or less the ship is not killed, but the damage is resolved.
Subtract 1 from the roll for every 20 compot in the opposing force (round fractions down). The roll always succeeds on a 2-3.

Example:
A CNQ (assume a 10(2)/x unit) is attacking a garrison group of F5L, F5, F5 (16/9). The CNQ does 3 damage, the F5Q does 5. 1 F5L is crippled, and the CNQ is forced to cripple since the damage is at least 1/2 (ignore the sat ship factors for the moment). Since the F5Q compot is less than 20, the Andromedan player rolls 2d6, and on a 10 or less, the CNQ is left in play uncrippled.

An INT (assume a 16(6)/x unit) is attacking a Federation fleet that escaped an earlier Klingon attack. The Fed line is CA, 3xNCL, 3xFF for 45 compot. If the Andro were forced to cripple the INT, it would survive on a 8 or less on 2d6 (-2 modifier for 45 compot/20=2).

By Jimi LaForm (Laform) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 11:47 am: Edit

Tony, quick question... why the divisor of 20? just something that came to mind or a specific reason for it? if so, what is the reasoning behind the /20.

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 11:51 am: Edit

Trying to make the effect match the "real SFB" outcomes of battles.

As the Galactic BPV goes up, Andro mother ships tend to get popped rather easily. However, a CNQ versus a small squadron will amost never be killed - it could take on 4 small ships all day & not get an internal.

I was just shooting for something that reflects that & 20 compot "seemed" about right.

Perhaps a better idea would be to have the divisor be the defensive compot of the unit that is crippled. A CNQ would then have a 10, a INT 16, DOM 24 (or whatever). That makes more sense actually - as the larger ships have a much higher threshold before becoming implosions...

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 12:04 pm: Edit

Instead of 20 COMPOT, how about:

For each SC3 ship -1
For each SC2 ship -2

Different Andro's have different 'thresholds'.

COQ: 10
INT: 11
DOM: 12

There is a scenario with D7, D5, F5 (?) in C2, Three against Cortez, and it says it could of killed them all, but it could of easily gone the other way.

By Richard Abbott (Catwhoorg) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 12:36 pm: Edit

The DISDEV works well, but from my recollection it doesn't shift you THAT far. In a fleet engagement the tactical advantage of a sudden shift is lessened (especially against direct fire opponents).

Note:
I only ever played one really big scenario with Andros - part of a Op Unity campaign and thus the results may not be representative.

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Disdev is (iirc) 15 hexes for self displacement. Also importantly, the Andro can use this displacement to get a different PA facing towards the enemy.

For a small fight (CNQ vs D7, D5, F5), 15 hexes is huge. Those ships don't have the damage potential at 15 hexes to really hurt a CNQ much.

When you get up to Op Unity level fleets - you'll have compots in the 120-150 range (as a guess). So, assuming a DOM is defense 24, the modifier would be -5 to -6 ... a 4-5 or less to survive. That seems about right. A DOM that gets in trouble in Op Unity still has a good shot at getting away (4 is 6/36, 5 is 10/36), but is still on the brink of disaster.

By Clell Flint (Clell) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 02:02 pm: Edit

If the Andro's still have the "flying bomb" capability in SFB, don't have the latest rules but they used to blow up for a lot. You could add a rule that an Andro can forgo the roll to avoid being crippled and instead make one last attack against any crippled ship in the opposing Battleforce, if the Andro makes their roll to avoid being crippled they and their selected opponent are destroyed. If the flying bomb tactic no longer valid then this would of course become a pointless idea.

By Tony Barnes (Tonyb) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 02:02 pm: Edit

Scott,

-1 for SC3 & -2 for SC2 doesn't really represent very well. WE/CL/6 compot SC3 ship would be far different from a 10 or 11 compot BCH.

Compot is already in the game, so keying against that (if the proper balance point can be found) would be simplest.
Then using the defensive compot of the Andro as the divisor would still be easy. Everything you need is on the counters in front of you (assuming you have a calculator or are proficient with division in your head of course).

D7, D5, F5 would be 20 compot. So, against a CNQ with 10 defensive compot, you still get a -2 to the roll. Each time it's crippled, it has a 72% chance of survival - but it'll take a couple of times to have it defeat all the defenders. After 2 "cripples", it's chance of dying would be ~50%.