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Hi.


Just a quick question about the Klingon-built hulls.

In GURPS Romulans, there's a story about a Klingon D7C in the early Y180s (I don't havt he book with me, so I forget the name and year, sadly...) which interrupts an attempt by the Feds to negotiate a separate peace with the Romulans, at the end of which it is said that the D7C was to be sold to the Romulans for conversion into a KRC.


Is it assumed that this converted ship was lost before the end of the General War, or could it be made available for the Imperials to use - either as a KRC, or as an X-ship?


Also, could the Imperials use the kind of minor shipyard seen in SO (I think) - perhaps as a representation of the specialised KR-supporting facilities available on the Federation border, and/or as a case of planning ahead by Rolandus?


Gary

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 01:59 pm: Edit

Gary:

The ship in question is the D7K Merciless, which, in Y182, in company with the F5K Fire Angel, attacked the Federation BCF Forrest at what was supposed to be a rendevous with a Romulan KE for negotiations for a seperate peace. The attack was done in such a way as to convince the Feds that they had been double crossed by the Roms. See the fiction in CL14 for details. The damaged Merciless was sold/given to the Romulans, and was later converted to a K7X. (At least that conversion is implied by the color text in X1).

Cheers,
Jason

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 02:04 pm: Edit

Sounds about right - I think the CL14 fic might have been the one recycled for GURPS Romulans.

Thanks Jason!

But I guess I wanted to clarify if Merciless (or whatever the converted ship was called) is one of the ships that has already been factored into Rolandus' fleet options, or is it assumed to have been destroyed before the Civil War?


Gary

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Memo For Record:

Reference material for the Romulan Civil War:

A. OoB in ISC War
B. Ships in SFB Module X1 mini campaign (T10.0).

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, January 02, 2012 - 11:18 am: Edit

John Robinson:

Please be sure to cross-reference material in the topic from as early as 2004 as some OOB research has been done.

Cheers

By John Robinson (John_R) on Tuesday, January 03, 2012 - 09:23 am: Edit

Chuck - Will do. Check e-mail from this morning for update.

By John Robinson (John_R) on Saturday, January 07, 2012 - 02:59 pm: Edit

I reviewed all 'R' sections, CLs 1-42 (except for #2 and #8 which have gone missing), and even GURPS Romulans. There is very little about the Civil War fleet except for what is in the campaign and a brief reference in a story in CL 20. Jeremy mentioned things about the Second Star Legion, but I either missed those references or don't have them.

Imperialist; T10S1.0; March Y186; K7X (Retribution – unknown)

Imperialist; T10S1.0; March Y186; K7X (Finality – unknown)

Imperialist; T10S1.0; March Y186; K7X (Reliance – unknown)

Imperialist; T10S1.0; March Y186; K5X (Rapier – unknown)

Imperialist; T10S1.0; March Y186; K5X (Scimitar – unknown)

Imperialist; T10S1.0; March Y186; KSX (Endeavor – unknown)

Imperialist; T10S1.0; March Y186; SP/SPF (Adversary/Triumph/Assassins Knife – unknown)*

Imperialist; T10S2.0; September Y186; KEX (Noble Warrior – unknown)

Imperialist; T10S2.0; September Y186; KEX (Ancient Hero – destroyed)

Imperialist; CL20; July Y186; SUP (Praetor Zajac – unknown)

* One of the SPs or SPF is actually a Republican traitor working with the Imperialists. Which one is not actually recorded in the scenario. It is secret for purposes of intrigue.

By John Robinson (John_R) on Saturday, January 07, 2012 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Republican Forces involved in Romulan Civil War

Republican; T10S1.0; March Y186; FHX (Praetor Maximus - unknown)

Republican; T10S1.0; March Y186; SUP (Praetor Carungay - unknown)

Republican; T10S1.0; March Y186; SP (Adversary - unknown)*

Republican; T10S1.0; March Y186; SP (Triumph - unknown)*

Republican; T10S1.0; March Y186; SPF (Assassins Knife - unknown)*

Republican; T10S1.0; March Y186; SKC (Dirk - unknown)

Republican; T10S1.0; March Y186; SKF (Horsebow - unknown)

Republican; T10S1.0; March Y186; SEH (Trusty - survived)

Republican; T10S2.0; September Y186; SSX (Argus - unknown)

Republican; T10S2.0; September Y186; ROC (Senator - destroyed)

Republican; T10S2.0; September Y186; SP (Defiance - unknown)

Republican; T10S2.0; September Y186; SP (Fearless - unknown)

Republican; T10S2.0; September Y186; SP (Loyal Warrior - unknown)

Republican; T10S2.0; September Y186; SKC (Sling - unknown)

Republican; T10S2.0; September Y186; SK (Probe - unknown)

Republican; T10S2.0; September Y186; SEH (Stalwartly - unknown)

Republican; T10S2.0; September Y186; SEH (Ready - survived)

* One of the SPs or SPF is actually a traitor working with the Imperialists. Which one is not actually recorded in the scenario. It is secret for purposes of intrigue.

By Patrick Sledge (Decius) on Sunday, January 08, 2012 - 10:54 am: Edit

John,

The reference to the second legion comes from module X1, T10S2.0 in the initial text. This mentions Rolandus using a diversionary force of his non-X-ships in the Second Imperial Legion. Further, R4.200A notes that all of the surviving Klingon types had been placed in Rolandus' fleet during the last years of the war. These two references combined were the basis of the old discussion.

By Keith Plymale (Zaarin7) on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 04:52 pm: Edit

I have CL 1-21 and looked in CL 2 and 8 and did not see anything about the Rom Civil War.

I have Nexus 2 and 5-18. I can check there if you want me too.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 06:17 pm: Edit

Please feel free to do so; we always appreciate the help.

By Keith Plymale (Zaarin7) on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 03:20 pm: Edit

The only thing I found was 1st gen X-ship info for the Romulans during that period. It was type's and names. I can list it if ADB no longer has it. It was in Nexus 18.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 11:02 pm: Edit

Can someone calculate the max compot of each these forces:

ISC Reprisal Force #1 (Echelon of Justice*)
CCX, CSX, SCX, PFT, 3xDD, 3xFF; CPF, 3xPT, MMG, 2xI-GCE

ISC Reprisal Force #2 (Echelon of Judgment)
CCX, CSX, 2xCLX, 3xDDX, SCX, 2xLTT-LPFP‡, CPX, 2xPT, I-GCE
‡ LTTs can only send their PFs forward as independent flotillas.

ISC Reprisal Force #3 (Echelon of Reprisal)
DN, CLX, PFT, CLG, 2xDD, 3xFF, [ACS+CE+2xDE], CLS, PT

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, January 11, 2015 - 11:43 pm: Edit

Force #1:

CCX(16) CSX(11) SCX(5) PFT(8+12) 3DD(19) 3FF(16) CPF(10) 3PT(4) = 101

Force #2:

CCX(16) CSX(11) 2CLX(22) 3DDX(27) SCX(5) 12PF(24) CPX(10) 2PT(4) = 119
(Assumed LTTs are sending PFs forward as per note above).

Force #3:

DN(13) CLX(11) PFT(8+12) CLG(6) 2DD(12) FF(5) ACS+CE+2DE (23+14) CLS(0 - Free Scout) PT(2) = 106
(Force #3 is ineligible to use a gunline group. Forming a battle group would not increase compot, as siginifcant units would have to be excluded from the battle force. This force cannot form an echelon formation.)

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 03:48 am: Edit

FLAG: DN(13*)
SCOUT: CLS(0 - Free Scout)

01: CLX(11)
02: PFT (8+12)
03: CLG(6)
04: ACS (5+14)
05: +CE (6)
06: +DE (6) GG
07: +DE (6) GG
08: DD (6) GG
09: FF (5) GG
G1: FF (5) GG
G2: FF (6) GG Leader
10: DD (6)
PT(2)

TOTAL = 117
*PPD

The force is a qualified echelon FORMATION (six+ ships) under (324.11) with its PPD flagship under (324.14). Meeting this requirement means it is qualified to use a gunline group under (324.421) where the DE escorts can be used as part of the gunline under (324.41).

However this battle force only meets the requirements as a small echelon FORCE under (324.111) since there is only one PPD armed ship present meaning it can only use one core formation under (324.211).

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 04:29 am: Edit

3FF would get the leader bonus and be 16 total compot if using all 3 FF in force #3.

324.113 seems to mean that if you have 10 or more ships in the battle force that it must be a large echelon.

It might be good to add a clarification in errata that picking the largest echelon type is not mandatory and does not exclude the possibility of smaller types if not qualified.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 04:42 am: Edit

It is important to realize that six qualifying ships with a PPD flagship leading them Qualifies them as an echelon FORMATION and that the number of PPDs with any additional qualifying ships controls the number of core formation slots that formation one can have.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 06:24 am: Edit

Yeah, I misunderstood the rules. I understood them (incorrectly) to mean that you couldn't use anything but the large echelon formation with 10 or more ships. The rules aren't entirely clear on this.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 06:25 am: Edit

Chuck, if you want another core slot for force 3 then change the CLX to a CSX. They have the same compot.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Monday, January 12, 2015 - 06:30 am: Edit

I concur with Richard's interpretation of 324.11. 324.111 reads (emphasis added):
=====
Small Echelon Force: BATTLE FORCES of six or seven ships must include at least one unit equipped with a PPD.
=====
Taken literally as written, the rule allows formation of a small echelon ONLY if the entire battle force contains exactly six or seven ships. Note also that, again as literally written, auxiliaries, bases, and independent attrition squadrons could be added beyond that limit, since they are not "ships."

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Turtle:

Please make a note in the ISC War after action report to clarify that six qualifying ships with a PPD flagship leading them qualifies as an echelon FORMATION and that the number of PPDs with any additional qualifying ships controls the number of core formation slots that formation one can have.

FEDS