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	Archive through March 20, 2006	25		03/20 08:19am

I want to stress that I to like the rules. And I agree with Lar that it is probably self limiting because of economics. However, I keep thinking of the Lyrans who almost always seem to have an excess of fund. In addition, the trend seems to be to add rules that increase a races funds available.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 10:23 am: Edit

Russell:

From the Proposal:

(ARS.4) Alternative Rule: Allow players to buy additional LAR/SARs beyond the above allotment at 150% of their replacement costs (LAR = 7.5 EPs; SAR = 4.5 EPs). However, no race can have more than twice its allotment of repair points from above (ARS.3).

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 12:50 pm: Edit

Some notes:

Hvy Aux's don't add additonal capacity (repair in this case) but defensive weapons/structure. No fighters, PFs, etc.

Conversion Capacity. I don't think this should be included, as someone else stated, CEDS conversion abuse. It's not needed, IMO.

Repair Points. A LAR (FLR) shouldn't have more repair points than a Base Station, a Base Station should have better capabilities than a LAR/FLR.

By Russell J. Manning (Rjmanning) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Chuck,

That clears it up a little bit. I did not the last sentence. However, I still do not really want to see the ability to increase a races field repair. I think it is just another example of making everybody the same.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Scott:

Heavy Aux: The HAR has not been designed yet, I'm just proposing it now so we can make it look like and do whatever we want.

Conversions: I'll leave that call to SVC -- I thought it would be a cool feature that is self-limiting.

Repair points: For whatever reason, bases have a lower ratio of repair boxes to repair points compared to a dedicated repair unit: FRD, 56 boxes/12 Repair Pts; the original (F&E2K) Repair Ship, 20 boxes/8 Repair; Repair Pod, about 20-30 boxes/8 repair. I always figured that bases where busy repairing other things on top of fixing ships. Examples could include fixing and manufacturing fighters/PFs, building Frigates/DWs, conversions, fixing Battleships (FRDs cannot), fixing shuttles, repairing or refurbishing dropped-off components, testing and calibrating mission equipment, etc. Whereas, dedicated repair units work on just ships and keeping them mission ready.

So, if a SB (180 boxes) kept the same ratio for repair boxes to repair points as an FRD (56 boxes/12 Repair) then the SB would have a repair capacity of 38 pts instead of 16 pts.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Russell:

If you are playing as a Gorn, why would you NOT like this rule?

By Derek Meserve (Sepeku) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 02:19 pm: Edit

I think that using these to conduct "field conversions" (ARS6) should cost double the normal rate, just as field repairs cost double the base repair rate.

Overall, I like these rules.

By Russell J. Manning (Rjmanning) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Chuck,

Because I also play the Kzinti and I am looking at a Lyran economy that can afford to double it's field repair capacity and use it.

Seriously, the Lyrans have a huge economy. They regularly have a significant treasury. If they have the capacity and can afford to do 56ep of field repair (not unlikely)why not do it. This means they can committ even more to attacking the Kzinti and/or Hydrans with the knowledge they can field repair a good portion of any cripples they take.

By Robert Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 03:19 pm: Edit

56 EPs is a whole bucket of cost for one turn. I can't see the Lyrans doing that more than once in a game, and even then it's gonna cost them something.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Concur. Not only 56EP but an additional 22-36EP (depending on the rule set selected) just to buy the additional capability. If the Lyrans want to spend 92 EP for 56 pts of repair then as a Kzinti I'd be happy.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 02:38 am: Edit

Here is an SSD analysis of the repair units in SFB:

RACE	Repair Boxes	Cargo Boxes	Tug Carries	LTT Carries
Fed-Pod	12	12	2 pods	1 pod
Klingon-Pod	10	10	2 pods	1 pod
Rom-SPR	12	16	NA	NA
Kzinti-Pod	10	10	2 pods	1 pod
Gorn-Pod	12	12	2 pods	1 pod
Tholian-Pack	8	0	3CPC: 2 packs + cargo pack or pod	1 pack
Hydran-Pal	10	10	1 pallet	1 pallet
Lyran-Pal	12	6	1 pallet	NA
Lyran-Pod	10	10	2 pods	1 pod
ISC-Pod	12	8	2 pods	1 pod
HAR*	40	24	NA	NA
LAR	20	12	NA	NA
SAR	10	6	NA	NA
FRD	52	28	NA	NA

*Proposed

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 07:45 pm: Edit

THIS RULE WAS SELECTED FOR INCLUSION IN CL#33. ONCE THAT ISSUE IS PUBLISHED, SOMEBODY CAN (PLEASE) REMIND ME TO POST THAT RULE HERE.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 10:45 pm: Edit

REMINDER TO SVC FOR THE ABOVE ENTRY. (Also this should be moved to defensive operations section; as that is how it is labeled in CL33.)

CL33 - Page 94 - Rule (MRS.2) is missing the Hydrans and Orions. - Wyszynski 7 September 2006

CL33 - Page 94 - Rule (MRS.1) The Tholians also have the PR, which is based on the PC. - Wyszynski 7 September 2006

By jason murdoch (Jmurdoch) on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 07:23 pm: Edit

A couple of questions
When are these repair ships available? I would guess that the small ship would be available first followed by the later ones.
Should these ships count against a specific production hull say if I build an aux-repair Ihave to give up an aux-scout or aux-cv. There are limits on how many hulls a civilian ship yard can produce even if getting 50% overtime.
Can these ships repair bases. Which leads to could these ships upgrade bases
If I send a tug carrying EPs/suplies and an aux-repair ship to an out of supply unit can I conduct repairs in what would be a one hex partial supply grid

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 10:38 pm: Edit

I was looking over the repair pods rule the other day and realized the original 1986 repair pod rule (442.8) abstracted the tugs as repair ships. The original rule was written before the introduction of the LTTs and pod counters from the old Special Ops/Carrier War modules. I then realized that the Kzinti & Klingon pods and Tholian packs had to be sets to be used but their fleet tugs but that their LTTs could only carry one pod/pack.

If we should ever publish the Advanced Repair Rules from CL33 I would also consider including this update for repair pods:

Race	Repair Unit	Counter Factors	Cost	Repair Pts / Unit	Total at Start	Suggested Max
Fed	Pod	0RR/-	5EP	8	1	3
Klingon	Pod	0R/-	2.5EP	4	2	6
Rom	Set of SP Modules	(see ship)	5EP	8	1	3
Kzinti	Pod	0R/-	2.5EP	4	2	4
Gorn	Pod	0RR/-	5EP	8	1	2
Tholian	Pack	0R/-	2.5EP	4	2	2
Hydran	Pallet	0RR/-	5EP	8	1	2
Lyran	Pallet	0RR/-	5EP	8	1	3

Notes:
1. Each 'R' factor is worth 4 repair points.
2. Max = maximum in service (a new proposal)

By Craig Tenhoff (Cktenhoff) on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 09:02 pm: Edit

Chuck, the max you list for the Gorn contradicts the Gorn Logistics rule. Is this intentional?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 10:45 pm: Edit

Craig:

You are correct. I mistakenly thought the Gorn Logistics rule (442.7) gave them repair SHIPS not pods.

The suggested max for the Gorns above should read 2 (+3) based on the rule.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 08:02 am: Edit

Chuck, with SVC proposing the elimination of CEDS retrogrades, (ARS6) could only be used to convert crippled ships of the same sizeclass as that of lost escorts. In effect limiting the replacement of escorts, and limiting the ability of the ARS to convert ships. The ARS has a limit of 1 pt conversion each turn.

I think that it could easily be argued that the Large Repair Aux could convert a maximum of 2 ships to escorts. In all cases this can only be done as conversion during repair.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 03:12 am: Edit

(ARS.24) Recommend adding rule: Any LAR can use its full 8 repair points to repair any one crippled ship (except battleships) but must still pay the full repair cost. (This permits heavier DNs to be repaired a la the plasma repair exception.) STRONG - 10 June 2009

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 12:19 pm: Edit

Under (425.3) Bases and FRDs can use some or all of their repair capacity to repair ships between combat rounds. I suggest the following rule.

(ARS.7) Repairs During Combat
If a repair ship (including Tug or LTT with Mission E) is in the battle hex then it can use 50% of its repair capacity under (425.3) at the normal rate of 1 EP per point of damage repaired. Thomas Mathews 24 Oct 2009

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 01:17 pm: Edit

(ARS.13) An Auxiliary Repair Ship could use some of its repair points for each type of repair (not to exceed the total allow of 8) should read: An Auxiliary Repair Ship could use some of its repair points for each type of repair (not to exceed the total of repair points available). Thomas Mathews 25 Oct 2009

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, March 19, 2010 - 07:46 pm: Edit

E-mail question:

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Quote:

If using the (ARS.0) rules, would an “on-map” repair ship or repair tug be a valid retrograde point?

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Retro points are very important. If this is adopted, I think you would see people making repair tugs for the sole purpose of retro.

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