Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive through September 30, 2004	25		10/01 03:02pm
	Archive through October 03, 2004	25		10/03 06:47pm
	Archive through October 04, 2004	25		10/05 12:05pm

Because the Kzinti players whined, cried, begged, and held their breath.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 09:38 pm: Edit

Isn't that the same reason the Gorn DNT became a mauler (J)?⁴²

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 10:26 pm: Edit

DNT should never have been a mauler. Otherwise any two WE or a single KVL would be. If anything in the Alliance should get mauler abilities, it's any Fed fleet. (SFB Range 30: Your scout is protecting itself, the C8, the D6M and the D7V? Ok, 46 torps and 52 phasers, there goes the D5V.)

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 05:30 am: Edit

Maybe, but you'd have to divide the Fed fleet's mauler effect by any negative EW shift that was applied against you. You know how hard it is firing photons into a shift.

Shift of 1, no efect. Shift of two you're mauling capability gets cut in half.

By Douglas E. Lampert (Dlampert) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:05 pm: Edit

Nah, The fed "Mauler" if any is based on Proxies and the ph-1, they are if anything LESS vulnerable to EW than most non-plasma races when they fight that way.

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 06:12 pm: Edit

Large Klingon F&E fleets can usually drag along enough special scensors to have one per disr armed ship if they want. A +2 shift reduces your prox hits to a 1 on a d6 and stops all phaser fire at range 30. So how is it that photons are less vulnerable to EW?

By Jimi LaForm (Laform) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Errr... that sounds like more of an SFB discussion to me

By Darin Smith (Dsmith) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 10:16 pm: Edit

Why do any maulers get extra damage against anything but a base?

Hell maulers aren't really maulers if you want to bring SFB into the game.....

bringing SFB changes so many things it's a waste of time to talk about it.....

we allow ships to leak through so we can make new rules but we certainly don't allow the reality of actually playing the game to affect F&E.

By Douglas E. Lampert (Dlampert) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:04 pm: Edit

This is SFB but it came up due to F&E related comments.

Daniel, I did not say photons were not hurt by EW, just that they are hurt LESS. Which is clearly true. The Disruptor has all the same problems or worse since it hits as badly or worse. And the Disruptors fire every turn and thus need twice the ECCM to regain parity.

Photons are just better at long range sniping (16-30) than disruptors not using UIM, EW or no EW. And ALL photons can fire to range 30 unlike disruptors.

By Edward Reece (Edfactor) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 01:42 pm: Edit

F&E maulers are just fine IF you give SFB maulers X-tech batteries.

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 08:53 pm: Edit

Douglas,

The Klingon fleet will have 8 special sensors easily. You won't need any more than that. Also, Klingons use lots of EW drones to help reduce the power requirement on their scouts. It's just as easy (if not more so) to undercut photon damage all the way into range 13 with EW. Every other heavy weapon except the fusion cannon hits equal too or better than a photon into an EW shift if the non Fed player brings sufficient scouts. There is no logical way to translate long range photon fire into a Mauler effect in F&E.

By Imre A. Szabo (Szurkey) on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 10:49 am: Edit

The reason why you need limited production in F&E is because you are not paying a fair price in construction time and money for the capabilities added to a unit. For example, assume that each unit on a prodcution schedule is actually multiple production lines. If each line builds 2 EP a turn, then a production schedule of 2xCA's a turn translates into 8 CA production lines. Now assume that each drone factor is worth 0.5 EP, and each EWF is worth 1 EP. That would mean the build cost in EP for a Fed CADS is 8 (hull) + 2 (drones) + 2 (EWF) = 12 EP. With a build rate of 2 EP per turn, that would mean a CADS would take 6 turn to build, or 50% longer then a regular CA. You could build 3xCA or 2xCADS for the same time and money. Which is really better? F&E abstracts most of this away, so all you have is 1 turn construction and inexpensive variants. This results in limits being needed.