Battleship production for all races
(BB.0) This is a proposal for integrating BB production to non historical campaigns, not for modifying any historical campaign or Scenario.
Basic premise is that ever since the development of the first DN, all sides had, at least on paper, toyed with the idea of an even larger ship. However, only the Klingons were willing to take the risks of actually building one of these behemoths.
As stated in (436.0), this was much harder then appeared on paper, however once completed it was easier to mass produce (just on a much much grander scale).

(BB.1) Development
(BB.11) Initial B10 production proceeds as defined in (436.2), however once a B10 is completed in this manner, then any additional battleships can be produced by direct production (436.26). Races allied to the Klingons can start producing their BB’s 2 turns after the first B10 is complete.
(BB.12) Other races can begin construction of BB’s 2 turns after they (or any of their Allies) have fought any BB during the Combat Phase (raids do not count).

(BB.2) production limits
(BB2.1) Limits for initial B10 production follow (436.1).
(BB2.12) B10’s Currently in production after the first is built are accelerated by the following chart.

Current Total of B10 Rolls	Accelerated production schedule	Discount for 1st turn
0-8 Points	4 Turns	9 Minus Current Total
9-17 Points	3 Turns	18 Minus Current Total
18-26 Points	2 Turns	27 Minus Current Total
27-39 Points	1 Turn	36 Minus Current Total (Minimum 1 EP)

The “Discount For 1st Turn” represents how much the first turn of accelerated production costs, subsequent turns are 9 EP each)

(BB2.13) Klingons can only Finish 1 such B10 per year, even if the total is caught up.
(BB2.2) All Races can have only one BB in production at any given time and subsequent BB’s can be started 1 turn after the previous is completed.
(BB2.21) The Klingons and Federation can have an additional BB in production with a 1 year offset from the 1st. Klingons cannot start a new BB if there is more then one accelerated BB’s waiting for completion.

(BB3.0) Limitation of Option
(BB3.1) This option is for non historical scenarios or campaigns only but can be used by mutual consent in any scenario which uses (436.0).
(BB3.2) This option cannot be used in a scenario that uses Fed Reaction or allows BB construction through other means defined in the scenario (IE Cloudburst)

By Dave Butler (Dcbutler) on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 11:00 pm: Edit

You haven't clarified whether or not a race other than the Klinks has to go through the (436.2) method before being able to use (436.26). Personally, I'd say that they have to, just to keep the BBs rare.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Tim, did you have any comments on my BB production suggestion? http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/37/4324.html?1055103388

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 10:49 am: Edit

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Quote:

You haven't clarified whether or not a race other than the Klinks has to go through the (436.2) method before being able to use (436.26). Personally, I'd say that they have to, just to keep the BBs rare.

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By Will Culbertson (Willc) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 11:28 am: Edit

I really just perfer straight buying. Either 9 points a turn for 4 turns (and then pay for conversion/fighters/etc.) and you can only have 1 going at a time or 5 points a turn for 8 turns but you can have a second started 4 turns after the first one. Klingons can start in Y171, everyone else in Y173 (or Y169/Y171 for the 8 turn model). Never liked the die rolling bit but then I like to see lots of big ships everywhere.

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 11:42 am: Edit

David Lang,
I did not recall that proposal, I was looking more for a way to integrate the traditional build and the direct build based on the premise (probibly incorrect) that once there was a working copy it would be easier to reverse engineer it. Alos I was looking for an escalation process very similiar to Battleship race of the early 1900's

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Tim, BBs can't raid. You should incorporate the Fed Reaction BB possibility instead of excluding it. Have you looked at the BB dates in G2? SFB specifies early BB dates for most races. Your production rate seems too fast - DNs are one per year, BBs are started once every other year in current F&E optional rule (or was this your intent). You should address the B11.

By Jimi LaForm (Laform) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 01:55 pm: Edit

I think he meant that you (the alliance player) cannot raid the BB and consider that as seeing the BB in action (to begin the construction of your own BB's).

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 02:01 pm: Edit

Speaking only for myself, if I am the Alliance and I (a) can raid Klinshai (b) survive the raid and (c) there is a BB under construction there, I am winning already and don't need a BB.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 02:01 pm: Edit

David, I can't figure what is going on in your BB proposal thread. Want to post a summary in it?

By Jimi LaForm (Laform) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 02:03 pm: Edit

Alan true, but the BB might be in a reserve fleet (or somewhere who knows) outside of the capital system that is more raidable then the capital.

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 02:06 pm: Edit

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Quote:

Tim, BBs can't raid.

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By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 02:08 pm: Edit

Jimi, you would hide a B10 instead of using it? I want to play you. But seriously, if it is in the water (completed construction) that should count. Every intelligence agency would be interested in the only move class 2.0 unit in space.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 02:08 pm: Edit

From Planetary Ops development (don't have the 5xx rule number). Advanced Prime Team missions.

(5APT.211) Disrupt battleship construction: A successful mission cancels the effect of the next die roll. No battleship can be attacked more than once during the entire game. The shipyard hex is the target.

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 02:10 pm: Edit

Alan, I do not have G2, all I have is the SIT's

By Jimi LaForm (Laform) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Ummm Alan, where do you get that idea? Trust me, I am no push over player, I may not be the best out there but I can hold my own mate =)

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Scott,
Yeah, I was thinking of a PT mission that would not disrupt the P10 but steal the plans but ended up nixing it. The klingons have to go through a lot to produce the first BB, let them have some fun with it befoe everyone else gets one. I could add that if it seems necessary ( thought as an option if the Klingon Player deciddes to hold his from combat until he has a hord of them, then a successful mission will fulfill the (BB1.2) requirement

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 03:12 pm: Edit

I don't really understand the need for a proposal or for an elaborate rule. Simply this....

1. If everybody agrees, you can all build BBs.

2. You can build one every second year for 36 EPs in addition to the build schedule.

3. Conversions to BBVs, SDSs, or whatever, are conducted normally and can be done by substitution as part of construction.

By Tim Losberg (Krager) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Well, I thought the elaboration was neat
It gave a more historical like method then "everyone builds one" approach.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 01:01 pm: Edit

I was joking Jimi! I don't want to play you! BBs scare me.

By Jimi LaForm (Laform) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 01:03 pm: Edit

I've no time anyways to play any online games of F&E, I was only joking around too bud, I wasn't insulted or anything =) Though by reading it back over it might have sounded that way doh.