Steve,

If the Hero System is something that you ultimately end up perusing then I would be delighted to contribute to the project. I am a long time Hero player, have extensive experience with all five(!) Editions, own just about everything they have published, and consider myself to be pretty much a Hero System Power User. Steve Long, Mr. Hero himself, is a pretty reasonable guy and sounds like he’d be easy to work with. (Ever notice that all the big names in The Industry are Steves?)

Mark

By David Lang (Dlang) on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 08:52 pm: Edit

Mark, that means that ADB must really be a powerhouse with two of them

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 10:15 pm: Edit

I've noticed that Steve thing, too. I've even told people that if I ever get to be a game designer (something I'm kind of working on) I will try to be the best game designer out there who's name isn't Steve.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 10:46 pm: Edit

I have a brother named Steve. I've told him NOT to get into gaming as there is already enough Steves in the field.

Imagine my dismay that there was already a Loren out there designing stuff. Dang doppelgangers! I'll bet that not even his real name...

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 11:22 pm: Edit

Sorry, Loren, but unless you are much older than I am thinking, *you* are the double. And as far as I can tell, that is his real name.

http://www.lorenwiseman.com/

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 12:12 am: Edit

Ya, well if he was designing for GDW in '73 then he's at least 15 years older. Poor sap.

I am the one true Loren! He may be a Wiseman but I... I am a Knight!


I'm sure he's a fine character. I'm just havin' a bit-o-fun.

By John C. Barnes (Nitehawke) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 03:38 am: Edit

How do you recognize a HERO system veteran?

The modifiers for EACH power/skill/ability take at least two pages of notebook paper.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 04:16 am: Edit

Hero scares me. It's one of the hugest rulebooks I've ever seen. And it's all rules! Even their "Lite" version (I think they call it "Sidekick") is bigger than the GPD book.

I've met Steve Long, too. Just met him, though. If I ever saw him again, he's probably say "who the heck are you?"

By Darren Kehrer (Kehrer1701) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 06:56 am: Edit

I agree, the HERO system is anothe good way to go. LIKE SFB, alot of the RULES are for specific situations that you might run into during play. I also am a long time hero player and converse via email and at conventions with Steve Long..a great guy.
A Lot of the "thick" books with the hero system are background material and examples and a whole bunch of "if you were going to create this....here is a good way to do it." The sidekick rules are only 10.00 and are really pretty good at an intro...much like the cadet book is for SFB. Gurps PD Hero could consist of a SFB version of Sidekick and then the PD background. Heck, Steve Long himself has been involved with writing Star Trek material for other companies, though I realize SFB is an offshoot, the basic background is still there.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 09:39 am: Edit

I have spoken with Steve L, and after the obligatory "why are we all named steve" jokes, we had a good chat. The big thing at this point is carefully selecting a guy to run it, or him deciding to do it himself despite too many other jobs.

By Darren Kehrer (Kehrer1701) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 10:59 am: Edit

SVC: That is REALLY cool. I hope the HERO thing works out. Thanks!!

By Mark Costello (Kosov) on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 03:45 pm: Edit

Steve, (SVC...)

If you are seriously looking for a lead for a PD Hero project, let me know when a good time to contact you might be so we can talk.

Mark

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 02:38 am: Edit

Did they ever implement any kind of wealth system in HERO? A fellow told me about this one time he played HERO (many years ago) and had to spend character points on a flashlight. And if the flashlight ever got lost or stolen, his character went down in value. His solution: He built a power pool to represent any bit of mundane equipment he might need.

While I can easily see circumstances in which paying points for gear is fine (Either a "signature" item or a supergadget), paying character points for mundane gear seems a bit silly. The only thing sillier I can think of is modeling the flashlight as an illuminating superpower to figure out it's point cost.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 03:04 am: Edit

No, HERO has long had a money system (at least as far back as Espionage).

That rule was meant for the superhero genre where characters seldom carried normal equipment. Letting characters load up on purchased equipment can lead to very bizaare concepts: rifles, body armor, and mining helmets saving points at the expense of spanex style.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 02:56 am: Edit

Good. If that were the case, I'd have to go running screaming from the building right now.

On the topic of multisystem books, I'd say it's looking more and more difficult, the more systems you add. Especially if you keep aquiring licenses. I mean, what would happen if you put out a book with GURPS, D20, D6, and HERO info in it, and then you get the license for the Action! System? Do you release an Action! only version of the book, or do you put out a revised version of the original book, but with the Action! info added in? Either way, I can see a headache in the making.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 05:51 am: Edit

Print on demand should limit the headache.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 05:58 am: Edit

not really, you don't want to change what's in the book without changing it's version (how in the world would you ever track it) and distributers will HATE you if you up the version of things every few months (not to mention the drain of the work to make the changes)

however with PoD you can have all the individual books and then as appropriate group them into summary books that include X game systems in them (with potentially multiple versions of the master books that cover different sets of gamesystems if there are enough different ones)

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 02:37 am: Edit

David: So you're suggesting doing one version of the book containing GURPS/d6/d20, and then the next version of the book would have whatever systems get licensed later. Is that right?

It's at least a partial solution to the problem. It doesn't completely eliminate having to produce multiple versions of the same book, but it does reduce it greatly. You do come into a problem further on down the line, though. How long does the guy who buys PDHERO have to wait to get his multisystem book? How many more systems would have to be ready for that book before it comes out?

By David Lang (Dlang) on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 04:12 am: Edit

remember that the multi-system book can be in addition to single system books (the resellers would probably prefer to carry one GURPS/D6/D20 book rather then three seperate ones that cost $2 less)

so when a new system is ready ADB can make the call, if there is another system close to being ready they can have them wait and do just a combined book, or do a book just for that game system and do a combined book later.

the main drivers for the multi-system book are two groups.

1. players who want the game stats for multiple systems but don't want to pay twice for the background info.

2. resellers who want to stock three of one stock number rather then one each of three stock numbers.

personally I question how large group 1 is (my experiance is that the vast majority of gamers stick with a single system, I expect that the people who populate this board are mostly exceptions to this)

and group #2 may want the single book, or they may want the seperate books so that they can put the GURPS book in the GURPS section and the D20 book in the D20 section.

the good news is that it almost doesn't matter how this works out. remember that for ADB the big work is in the background material and (thanks to print-on-demand) they don't have stocking problems. whatever sells is what they print.

By Robert Gilson (Bobcat) on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 09:25 am: Edit

I wonder if there would be a way to create a generic cover and just add a sticker on the front stating what system is inside. That way you can have each book system specific but save money on covers.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 12:45 pm: Edit

You need to have separate ISBN and product numbers for each book, in order to keep the different product lines separate. I don't know if it is legal to put that info, including the bar code, on a sticker.

Possible, yes. But feasible? I doubt it.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 05:34 pm: Edit

while covers still need to be printed in large numbers they are still relativly cheap (a few hundred per cover IIRC from SVC's commetns)

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 10:28 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

How long does the guy who buys PDHERO have to wait to get his multisystem book? How many more systems would have to be ready for that book before it comes out?

---

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, April 08, 2005 - 12:33 am: Edit

It costs about $800 to print a cover. Cover art could cost say $400. A typical book is $25 which nets us $10 (maybe $6 after interior art, shipping, and production). So fighter $1200 to do a stack of covers, $6 per book, breakeven is 200 books. Probably closer to 300 copies if you count soft costs like SVC time. But then, if you use the same art in GURPS, D6, D20, HERO, STORYLINE, PUNCHLINE, BATTLELINE, or whatever other engines, that cost drops out as you paid it already and you might be back to 220 books.... depending. Question is whether the wholesalers will sit still for nine versions of SFU THOLIANS.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Friday, April 08, 2005 - 03:01 am: Edit

And then there's the question of what people want to buy. I, for example, don't care for d20. I would not buy PD20 or any support products for that line. While I'm okay with d6, there are people who aren't. If a GURPS/d20/d6 book is produced and only 8 pages of rules for each system are presented (24 pages of rules total), I only bought 8 pages of junk (the d20 pages). Someone who was only a d20 player just bought 16 pages of junk. How will they take that?