Archive through February 12, 2005
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Prime Directive RPG: NEW KINDS OF RPG PRODUCTS:
GPD Small Craft:
Archive through February 12, 2005
Robert: yes, skill 15. Sorry.
Overall: I think it is obvious to everone that we need a GPD supplement to GURPS VEHICLES, even if it;s only a few pages in MP. Sadly, I don't know who could write it -- not me, I don't know the system well enough.
GURPS Vehicles vs. SFB:
For the most part, I've used stock GURPS components. And for the sticky parts, such as a Warp Engine, a Phaser-3, etc., I created new modules.
Gary's idea of a GPD supplment to GURPS Vehicles is a great idea. I'm putting together pieces as I go, and making it work out. When I get the shuttle done (probably early next week, I have visitors this week), I'll post it, and a component-by-component breakdown. From there, I can start working on something bigger (Hey! GPD Online people! Would you like a skiff? ).
I'll keep you posted on the progress. 
-Francois
Francois, your email address is bouncing, please mail me. TIA. RH
Well, who says that the G1 APR and a Fed CA APR are the same thing? SFB treats them the same, but that is really really abstract. They were created by different races (klingon tech/Fed tech), and a PF has a different design philosophy than a cruiser, the PF gives up a lot of long term durability to save space since it is not expected to survive many missions. Also, the PF uses later tech than the crusier does so you expect things to get a bit smaller anyway.
The other problem here is we don't just have SFB components to add to GURPS, we have 200 years of SFB components to add to GURPS which may have different stats for the same piece of equipment at different times. Just something else to keep in mind.
It would actually surprise me if a G1 APR was the same size as a Fed CA APR. The G1 one is designed for a ~1 year lifetime and probably major overhauls every couple of weeks. The Fed one is designed for 50 years and 5 years between major overhauls.
Jeff, I don't think your "modular" idea works for most purposes for the Admin shuttle. It is perfectly possible in SFB to have an admin shuttle do scientific research while carrying around 10 drones (or 10 people).
From some reference, I was under the impression that the pilot of an admin could also fire the phaser without any problems (so that while 2 was the "normal" crew, one was perfectly adequate). I don't know if this handles itself easily in GPD or not...
David Kass: TO expand on that I would be surprised if a Fed FF APR and a Fed CA APR were the same unit and further surprised if they generated the exact same power.
A SFB point of power is also an abstract thing. The specifics could vary from ship to ship. In the end it only needs to have the same GENERAL result.
Certainly there is variance between the specific race to race. Is a Klingon point equal to a ISC point in Megawatts? Sure when they transfer power while docked a point is a point but who knows what goes on to make it so.
Nick, I'm going to cop to the 'balance of power' argument to justify why equipment of a similar type in the same time period should have roughly the same stats & figures. If any one race developed something more that marginally better, the other races would adopt that tech quickly. That does not invalidate my 'fudge' opinion of earlier, though. Nor does it preclude additional requirements that the campaign might state. (i.e.; Federation APRs require twice as much volume and weight as the baseline stats due to excess redundancy & safety equipment.)
The issue of having 200 years of equipment to deal with is something I agree with and am an advocate of. As proof, I submit the Universal Translator that was published and the version that I posted reflecting TL changes.
That’s ok, though, because if you look at GURPS Vehicles, TL advancements are factored into the charts & should be for any SFU components that are charted out for this project.
Loren, re; the question of power measurement, I'm going to suggest that those particular differences get a gloss treatment of swept under the rug, the same way that the fact that all races have different system of measurement of distance exists. Steve has said that trying to use in fiction googoobleks (tm) instead of .873 KKM is just technobabble that means nothing and adds confusion. Use a standard Terran measure system. If a GM wants to have XYZ race use googoobleks (tm), then let them for their house game.
RH
RH: Oh I agree! That was actually my point. Trying to really compare systems isn't going to produce anything useful since every system, even like systems will have variances.
I would suggest that a G1 APR can be smaller because it only has to provide power for a more limited time. Indeed, it could well be a normally smaller output reactor modified to an overdriven state for that particular application.
Having designed way too many Andro robots, I've learned the vehicle rules really well & there are lots of 'options' that could be used I suspect, for example;
APR Unit
APR - XXX cy YYY# ZZZ$
TL09 +50% / +50% / +25%
TL10 +00% / +00% / +00%
TL11 -25% / -25% / -10%
etc...
Safe +100%/+100%/ +50%
Dirty -50% / -50% / -25%
IPR - 10% / -10% / -00%
(Safe being extra redundant systems, Dirty being bare bones (like on a G1), IPR being an Impulse power reactor)
And so on...
The idea is that it reflects the TL changes AND various options so that things can be tailored for time, place, race, mission, etc...
RH
A skiff, cool, but check with SVC. I believe he said it was the Traveller SULIEMAN-Class 100 ton Scout/Courier, converted to GPD.
ADM
P.S. I have the GURPS Traveller stats for this if you need them for our game, and floor plan.
ADM: I can verify that the Skiffs in CL23 are indeed conversions of standard TRAVELLER hulls. Ditto the Modular Courier.
The big problem with converting from TRAVELLER to SFB is that TRAVELLER has things like fuel scoops, fuel purifiers, and tankage that SFB doesn't use, and SFB ships have stuff like Probe launchers, Tractors, Transporters, and so forth that TRAVELLER does not have. Plus many more items I don't recall off the top of my head ... MANY more.
Two different systems, independantly developed, and totally incompatible. Any conversion will always be highly questionable.
Some things added; some things removed; still makes for a good starting point on designs. My standard modular baseline police grav vehicle uses a cut down version of a Traveller APC as its base. Other than having the ability to reach orbit and an improved firefighting system, it doesn't fit too badly with the SFU designs. For campaign reasons, I wanted it to have orbital capability so that divergence will stay.
The power produced by any given APR has to be fairly similar. This is based on the fact that 1 point of power used as specific reinforcement always stops one point of damage (from a phaser). IMHO, this puts the power generation per unit within 20% and more likely within 10% or so.
Yes, except that from race to race all the processes are a little different (the point of damage and the point absorbed being different) but it all eventually evens out.
Anyway, I do agree in pricipal and my point was that we don't have to worry about specifics too much. Ironically, my arguement about not being too specific has gotten too specific.
I'll post what I have thus far with the GURPS Vehicles Admin shuttle tomorrow. It's by no means done... the dimensions (and HP), weight, and warp speeds haven't been tweaked out to match what we have yet, but it's close.
I'll be on vacation all next week, so I look forward to seeing all your feedback when I return!
-Francois
Robert Gilson: re the TRAVELLER Assault Cutter found in the "Deckplan 4" package, which is SJ Games #6622:
Do you happen to know if anyone has created GURPS SPACE3 (preferably) or VEHICLE stats for the eight versions of this ship?
I'm thinking about doing a short write-up of this for MP -- it would make an excellent addition to the Size Class 5 stable!
I think that there might be GURPS Spaces stats for it in the Moduler Cutter book. Since I'm currently several hundred miles from my books I can't be sure. Although I do have Assault Cutter deck plans which I had bought from a local game shop here is OK City, just the other day with me. Just looked at them again, aren't the stats on one of the plan sheets, look on the hex side of the sheet that has Lowalaa-class 50 ton Assault Cutter for some GURPS stats.
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/modularcutter/
DAVID LANG: How long does it take a shuttlecraft to fly from Earth to Vulcan?
A-one...a-two...a-thrdrdree...
Three.
Oh, wait...you're not talking tootsi pops here are you?
(Just trying to humor myself well. I really feel like crap. Been almost two weeks now. I'm sick and tired or being sick and tired!)
Well, according to David Lang's transportation article in MPA, a ship traveling Warp 4.5 can make the trip in 24 hours. Unfortunately, shuttles only travel at Warp 2.5 (GPD main book), a speed which has never been explained. The GPD main book doesn't say how fast that is, or provide any way to figure that out. I guess only David Lang knows this one for sure.
16.454 light years at high warp 2.5 is just a hair over 6 days. the trip itself would take a little longer due to the time needed at tactical warp speeds within the system at each end (as documented in module prime alpha, I'll post again when I can dig it up)
high warp 2.5 works out to a nice round 1000C
I really do love it when numbers picked out of thin air for things work out so nicely
So what again is the formula for Stratigic warp?
I mean if Tactical warp is the cube root of the number of multiples of the speed of light. And thus only 15.625 C from warp 2.5 ( which is odd because shuttles move at 6 C although there is probably a reason for that ).
David, thanks, I'll call it "a week" and leave it at that. If you'll give me the chart numbers for warp 2.5 I'll add them to GPD4e.
when I get home tomorrow night and can lookup the existing chart in GPD to find which numbers you need I'll post them
MJC, SVC has not allowed me to post the formula, but with the exception of the dash speeds everything does follow the formula.
rmember that shuttles can travel up to 12C with booster packs