Archive through April 13, 2006
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Prime Directive RPG: NEW KINDS OF RPG PRODUCTS:
GPD Deck Plans:
Archive through April 13, 2006
Nick, we should talk about your ideas on the Neo-class ships because I do make several comments about them.
Loren, when you say, "FIrst, I think you are taking too many steps," I think you may be right. It just makes me feel better to start from the most accurate setup possible, because I know it's all downhill from there.
As a result, I spent much too much time this week trying to do what I'd outlined above. It took longer than I thought, or maybe it was that I got sidetracked into corners of the project that have little effect on the outcome.
Nevertheless, a view of the week's work from me:
http://www.bright.net/~jackbohn/sf/H20060401.html
Comments on Nick's plans:
Klingon F5
Reading the archive, I'd noticed it was planned for GURPS Klingons, I'd wondered where it got to.
Klingon B10 (well ok, only the external top and side views)
TEASE! Really, can this come out as anything other than its own $50 publication?
Romulan Starhawk
Romulan Snipe
Romulan War Eagle
Romulan Sparrowhawk
A Rom sympathiser in our midsts?
Gorn Battlecruiser (got the shuttlebay complex designed)
...and that's half the battle! It might actually be about half the battlecruiser, depending on how similarly the fore and aft "bubbles" are laid out.
Taking time out for a fan moment... It's obvious the original construction Heavy Cruisers are pictured by the old miniature with the warp nacelles attached to the aft hull, the Battlecruisers upgraded from Light Cruisers are the new mini with the engines still attached to the center hull (as aft as the LC hull got).
Orion Light Raider (exterior done, and of course I of course drew the double raider since once you have the basic ship done the doubled version is just a copy/paste away).
The double raider, the poor man's cruiser, nice to see it getting some love.
Do you pass requests up the chain of command? Record one vote in interest of the Orions, the F5, and the Snipe. (I don't know if the Gorn shuttlebay could be published unless you had an adventure for it.)
Well, I started my own version of the F5 deckplans awhile ago. From what I remember, someone else volunteered to do them for GURPS Klingons, so I stopped working on mine. But close to publication I guess that fell through, and SVC asked me to do something at the last minute (within about two weeks), and suggested the PF would be easy. So I threw that together, and it turned out well for such a short time, and that was that. But I will hopefully finish the F5 up for something else (still requires a bit of work), maybe Steve will want to put them in a Cap Log? No concrete plans at this point.
B10, don't know how that could be published, and if published alone would it be enough of a draw to sell? I have no idea. The Klingon PF didn't sell well on its own from what I have heard, but then, that's just a Klingon PF. Probably wasn't the best ship to try such a product out with? Theoretically the best ship to publish as its own product would be the Fed CA or Klingon D7 (with a much larger universal draw), but can we do those (since they exxentially already exist out of print, unless we just did our own totally different)? I don't know. Haven't talked to Steve about it as there are hundreds of other ships that can be done. Would be fun to try though.
Romulan ships are of course the best (as everybody knows). What I really want to do (and may focus on next) is doing a Snipe/Hawk/Eagle/Vulture compilation. Those are my favorite ships from the game really. Recently was pointed to a set of the old Romulan Bird of Prey deckplans from way back when. Fortunately they don't work at all for SFU (so I don't have to worry about copying them or not), I can just sort of ignore them and do my own thing. They would be the plans of the Warbird/WarEagle, but if you compare the scale of the plans to the miniatures, it is actually smaller than the Snipe mini, and without phasers (but with 10 missile tubes), and with tiny 3-man shuttlecraft (which is all that can fit aboard), it really doesn't match any of the SFB Rom ships at all. I have started a Snipe, and really want to see how that turns out. Wimpy wimpy ship in SFB, but it looks really sweet as a drawing. Battlehawk destroyer is by far my favorite Rom ship.
Gorn BC, someday, maybe, who knows? Shuttlebay is simply the upper levels of the center hull. There is all the rest of the center hull, and the two bubbles (which would indeed be largely similar), and the wings, none of which have any work done on them.
Orion LR would be easy enough to finish. However, Garth Getgen has a nearly complete Fed Police cutter done (which is really pretty cool), and has ideas for the Orion LR as an "opponent". Waiting to see if he does it before me. 
C'mon Garth, get with it!
I don't know about requests, I usually just work on what I feel like, and sometimes ADB has a place they want to use it (like the Fed Express in Cap Log). I will aim for a given race if they ask (like the Klingon PF), or it looks like I could do something for an upcoming product (Tholian PC/DD for GURPS Tholians).
But, if there were a big concensus among players for something to be done in Cap Log, well, who knows? So far the main interest for publication has been to have something to supplement the RPG books.
There was talk among players of doing a full set of plans of something (at small scale) as its own product, and including a number of the "important" rooms at larger RPG mini scale for encounters. Perhaps include a hex map and generic walls, doors, and furniture to recreate portions of the small scale plans in the larger scale. Who knows if this will happen or what it might entail. Ships? Bases? Plantary locations? Cities?
I finished the Tholian PC/DD today. Well, finished detailing all the rooms. Wait, except for the forward phaser/disruptor control rooms, still need some control consoles in there. Thought of some things I had missed and got those in. Know how these things connect to make CAs and DNs, but haven't done plans of a connecting wing (which entirely replaces a regular wing section on each of two PCs). Know how the cargo packs work, and all the weapons that get blocked by the packs on the different ships (in SFB) all makes sense and matches the plans. Heavy weapons mounts worked out for how a given PC mounts them when part of a larger vessel. Have the details of the difference between flat wings and wedge shaped wings. Elevator system in the PC works, and how it connects with the next PC in a larger ship. Everything is together and works, engines, fuel lines, jeffries tubes (although what the Tholians call them I don't know). Still need to do the prettying up of text, fonts, and so on, and write the descriptions. Then try to think of anything I forgot.
Really happy with how these are turning out, better than I was afraid I would be able to do when I started. The PC is such a strange shape, and a small volume, how can everything fit? I was afraid it wouldn't, but I guess it does, fortunately.
Pulled out my FASA Fed CA & Klingon D7 after reading the postings about deck plans. Something seeming missing and it took awhile to realize. Neither of those plans include airlocks, APRs, or drone racks. They could certainly be modified and some obvious places for these exist. Would have thought the original plans would have included an airlock.
I belive the original Franz Joseph designs didn't have an airlock or docking port for the constitution class either. Except for an airlock in the shuttle hanger. The shuttles and transporter were the only way on or off the ship.
Another reason we should consider just doing our own I suppose, none of the existing designs exactly matches the SFU.
The FASA designs are the same as the original Franz Joseph designs in almost every respect. FASA simply added more details to the rooms and put in a 1/2 inch square grid pattern to regulate movement.
Still, the layout with mods is very workable.
Jesse: The McMaster deck plans list "target drones" on decks E1 and E2 (sheet 6). At the front of E1 was the only airlock I could find (top and front of the main impulse deckhouse). At the front of E2 is the Emergency Generator; another is on E3. I can't find my copy of the FASA deckplans but as I remember FASA based their D7 plans on the McMaster one. The differences I recall were the loss of all the phaser mountings and the addition of Traveller style cold sleep capsules; the "target drones" were retained.
I was figuring that even at the "Franz Joseph" scale of one inch = 10 meters the B-10 would take thirty to sixty 8 1/2 by 11 pages, what else would there be room for? I didn't buy the PF package, I'm not really an RPG player, the size in the sourcebooks or CL is good enough for me. Perhaps if they had released the G-1 for use by independent operators. (# 2 on the list of Top Ten Things "PF" Does Not Stand For: Personal Flyer.)
The biggest sellers would be the F_CA or K_D7. Would the K_D5 be "close enough"? Perhaps not for gamers, but maybe catching the more casual fan, particularly with the cover only (and I am not advocating any untruth in advertising) calling it the "Klingon War Cruiser Blueprints". The F_NCL, while not the most popular Federation ship, does look a bit like what could be the second-most popular Fed ship, or could with proper artwork -- imagine a view from below the bow, hiding the fact that the front of the nacelles are round and red, and, further, picture the cover stocked upside-down. (Again, not advocating any untruth in advertising, but printing the title "Federation New Light Cruiser Blueprints" not at the top, but running up the left side or down the right would not help storekeepers who might have such possible confusion.)
The Warbird "family" are neat designs. The ships have the same lines, but are not just scaled up or down, the relative proportions also change. About the blueprints; I think I remember an interview with the artist from way back in the day, and he was intent on carrying through the "submarine" theme from the episode.
My guess is that a D5 would catch a lot of the collectors crowd. Not quite as much as the D7 would but still compairatively well. I'd bet it would have a better profit level on each sold for ADB.
The funny thing is that many players aren't going to like having a dinky ship and encountering a bigger ship almost all the time. That's why they would want a cruiser; so thier ship will be commonly larger that those they encounter. Sure they might encounter a DN but those a relatively rare and at least a CA doesn't blow up so easy. Frankly, the civilian PF should never enter combat with anything other than a shuttle or maybe a Free Trader or Freighter (and pray it isn't an AUX or Q-ship!)
The G1 gunboat plans did include a "civilian" variant for when they were sold off after the war. Life support/extra living space replaces the weapons.
Nick,
I would not call the POL plans I'm working on as "nearly complete". Besides, I just started over from scratch. Again.
What I showed you is 82 meters long by 22 meters wide (not counting engines), with seven decks aft and three forward. The deck height was 2.50 meters. I was having trouble fitting in enough quarters. When I started that project, crew size was 60; now it's 100.
I looked at going with 100 meters long by 27.5 meters wide, and 8 + 4 decks at 2.75 meters. But that seemed like it'd end up being too big.
I just started over, with 7 + 3 decks again but at 2.75 meter height. This makes the ship 90 meters long by 24 meters wide. I think that's going to give me the little extra room I need to fit the larger crew in. If not, I may try 8 + 4 / 2.5 meter decks.
Garth L. Getgen
By the way, what is the max crew size for a Fed POL, using command points to buy extra crew / BP????
Garth L. Getgen
What about just adding more bunks for the enlisted? Or hot bunking?
40 BPV POL can add 4 crew (4 bpv) and 8 boarding parties (4 bpv) for 8 total additional crew equivilants.
Garth, ya I'd think that the LR would be one of those ships that uses stacked bunking.
Say, is any one going to do the Buccanneer PF?
Andy ... thanks. That nearly doubles the crew, so I guess I need to take that into account.
Patrick,
I loath the idea of hot-bunks. Remember, this is a Police boat, not a Fleet ship. I can't see them hot-bunking it. My plan is to make the rooms 1+1 but with bunks to allow for 2+2. By 1+1, I mean one person per room, two rooms share a bath. That's how I can get the 80 extra crew bunks.
I need to redo the crew list, but here's the current count:
| |
| Rank | POL | POL+ |
| LtCmdr | 1 | 1 |
| LT | 4 | 4 |
| LT-jg | 5 | 5 |
| Ensign | 1 | 1 |
| Sr. Chief | 1 | 1 |
| Chief | 3 | 3 |
| PO1 | 9 | 10 |
| PO2 | 27 | 30 |
| PO3 | 21 | 22 |
| Jr. Enlisted | 9 | 9 |
| 1Lt | 1 | 1 |
| SSG / SGT | 2 | 2 |
| CPL | 2 | 2 |
| Marines | 12 | 12 |
| Total | 98 | 103 |
|
I showed the BPs as Marines (4 x four-man teams, plus 1Lt), but as this is a Police boat, they wouldn't have Marines. I have two choices: make them Tac Teams, equivalent to Marines, or work them into the main crew, and then just rotate the BP duty.
Interestly enough, I found that I have 82 enlisted (not counting Chiefs) ... which turns out to be the same number of extra crew I need to find bunk room for. Funny how THAT one worked out!!!
Garth L. Getgen
Having been in the USN, I can say with great authority that hot-bunking is detrimental to crew morale AND efficiency.
There is absolutely no way a Star Fleet ship of any class would have hot-bunking as standard. It might happen during a refugee evacuation or something equally critical, but not as standard.
A pirate ship, maybe. Just maybe, depending.
On the other hand, there is no reason not to stack bunks three high for E1-E6, two high for E7-E9 and O1-O2s. Higher-ranking ossifers would not get stacked.
Doesn't the amount of time the extra crew and marines will be on board influence the design? I can't expect extra bunking to be provided if the operations are only expected to last hours.
Garth. Why 4-man Marine teams and not 5-man squads?
Here is something you might want to see....
SVC,
Cool
There is two decks on the Thunderbolt, right?
(I know you aren't going to show both just making sure I fully understand what I'm looking at.)
You have to guess what RPG system that is for.
I wildly guess D6.
gunboat.pdf