Archive through May 24, 2006
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Prime Directive RPG: RPG PLAYTESTING:
Archive through May 24, 2006
I...uhh...O.K. Sorry about that. Reread your post 5/29 8:35. Read "Subject closed". I got it now.
Hmm. bit late on the Tech Level discussion but I should point out that one setting where TLs REALLY didn't make sense (Lensman) invented a new way of determining when stuff was introduced (the "Tech Stage").
To tell the truth I'm glad GPD isn't cleaving exactly to the GURPS TL (although renaming it might prevent some confusion) as Star Fleet Battles has (as Steven pointed out) tech that is all over the charts. As long as the GPD TLs describe in general what is available it should not be hard to determine where an item from another GURPS book falls in.
BTW: A rules issue came up in GURPS Blue Planet and Transhuman Space: Blue Shadow that may be relevant to GPD. Aquatic does *NOT* automatically include the Swimming skill. It can be a 0-point feature but it is not automatic like it is for the Amphibious advantage. If the Aquatic races in GPD assume automatic swimming skill and there is room it might be worth adding a small note to this effect. Specifically Kromm said he would support a statement like: "Aquatic includes Amphibious (No move on land) [0]."
If it becomes important there has been some progress on making the Oxygen Storage advantage more realistic and useful. If you think that would be interesting let me know (basically, use the "holding your breath" rules on p. B91 and standard Oxygen Storage multiplies your "mild exertion" time by x90). This is approved by Kromm and will certainly be used in future GURPS books.
We've also been working on getting the water exposure rules to work with Temperature Tolerance but I won't even pretend that you guys have the room or time to use them ;)
Also, it may come with the Tholians and other funky aliens. When using Increased Life Support it *doesn't matter* how much they eat compared to humans. Anything beyond 3x as much (say, a blue whale or orca) is *only* worth 2 levels of ILS. Kromm also suggested using a flat one level of ILS for requiring special life support equipment in space, etc.
TLs got a major chunk of text in GPD -- 7-8 pages, as I recall -- so not to worry.
We had major staff-level discussions on Aquatic/Amphibious re the fishy races, and I asked Sean to review our final decision; he did and approved it. FYI he saw ALL of the racial templates in their final form.
Since then, if things have been discussed re Blue Planet, I haven't heard about them and don't plan to worry about them -- it is too late to change them in GPD.
Water exposure is not a concern for Tholians as they have 12 levels of Body Of Stone (cannot turn off) and live at 400 degrees F -- by then it has turned to steam. 
BTW, they are Anaerobic, too.
(Some of the RTs are very interesting!)
TL's - glad to hear it.
The Amphibious issue was VERY recent (like last week). So Kromm may not have thought about it (or assumed everyone already knew his ruling was the standard).
Well I did say "... and other funky aliens." in my Temperature Tolerance part ;)
Or would water be considered a weapon against Tholians? At only 400 F, it shouldn't require that much water to cool one down to "reasonable" temperatures, and then what happens? :-)
P.S. Hmmm, I wonder what pressure is required to keep 400 F water from boiling?
SVC and GARY: I just emailed a pdf of the character sheet. front and back
Already sent to SJ.
David Kass: You could send small water balloons via trasporter. The sudden flash to steam could be quite concussive. Sort of a water granade.
The 'can not turn off' is still misapplied. It provides points for an exception, not a common ability.
I figure we can fix it in the next George Lucas re-edit of reality for all it matters.
R
Quick update as of Sunday afternoon:
SVC and I have plowed through SJ's comments on the final draft. Many minor issues, only a few medium items, and no major ones -- no show-stoppers, in any event. This is good!
We've created fixes for everything and a revised final draft should go back to SJ Monday or Tuesday.
My #3 concern, that SJ might go ballistic over the new psionics system I wrote, didn't happen; this could have been a major roadblock. SJ had some comments on this section, but no more than in other sections of the book, so I feel very relieved.
Overall, I'm very happy about the way the review process has been going -- SJ and his people have been more than fair. While this has been a learning experience for both companies, I think it bodes well for the future.
Gary & SVC: You keep makin' 'em and I'll keep buyin' 'em.
Of course, I hope that enough others share my perspective to keep the cycle going 
Quote:While this has been a learning experience for both companies, I think it bodes well for the future.
Which is definitely good news!
Oh, and G:PD and its supplements are on my short list of 'must buy' (as opposed to the slightly longer list of 'want to buy'). The faster you print 'em (at or above your usual good quality level, about which I have no worries), the faster I'll buy 'em!
Aaron Hendricks sez:
>SVC and GARY: I just emailed a pdf of the >character sheet. front and back
Any chance that this sheet can be archived on the web page somewhere? Or e-mailed to folks on request? It should be in the GPD book, but I have a laser printer at work, and I'm always much happier to print character sheets out there rather than photocopying them from a rulebook.
the character sheet will be on the web site.
SVC:
Did the Character Sheet for Gurps PD ever get posted on the PD section of the ADB website??
We got the original PDF of that character sheet from the SJ Games website. I'm certain that you can still get a copy of it from there.
http://www.sjgames.com
Darren: so far as I recall, we weren't going to post it since it's on the SJG website. We gave the location of it (on their website) in GPD4e.
I posted this in GENERAL DISCUSSIONS. Perhaps this belongs here, instead? Not sure... anyway, here goes:
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I have a few questions about the Prime Directive line.
(1) The d20 version of the Prime Directive rulebook appears to be every bit as long as the GURPS version, yet the GURPS version duplicates material from the Basic Set and (as far as I can tell) the d20 version does not duplicate the Player's Handbook.
Granted, I do not own the d20 version, just the GURPS version...
But the question is this: Why would you not assume that a GURPS PD player would own the Basic Set, yet assume that the d20 player will own the Player's Handbook? It seems that a lot of material could be included in the GURPS version if you left out the duplicated pseudo-GURPS Lite material.
(2) The GURPS Tech Levels... yes, their is some discussions of this on other boards. I think the proper way fo doing this in PD would have been to have the Tech Levels broken down into decimal places for the Star Trek Universe... ie: TL 11.0, 11.1, 11.2, 11.3, 11.4, 11.5 and so on...
Oh, and to break down tech into fields (Medical Tech, Engineering Tech, Weapons Tech, Energy Tech, etc.)
The question is this: why adhere to an old standard here, instead of upgrading and adapting the current standard? If for no other reason that compatability with other GURPS books, I cannot see how this is a good thing.
(3) In the start of the character creation section is a chart I wrote as part of the GURPS 3e Playtest (and never got credit for...). This chart gives suggested point values for various tones of campaigns. This chart was fine in the G3e days... but points have chaged in the 3e to 4e upgrade. The chart really makes no sense now.
I guess the question is this: why keep this chart in is old form?
If I were to re-write this chart for 4th edition, I would say it should look more like this:
Points ............. Tone
-------------------------
100 pts ........... Cadet
150 pts ........... Green
200 pts ........ Standard
250 pts ......... Veteran
300 pts ........... Elite
350+ pts ......... Heroic
(4) Why are the races not presented in alphabetical order? Oh, and what is the deal with presenting some races along the bottom portions of a pair of pages?
(5) Why does the font shift several times in the core rulebook?
Well... I have to say, I had high hopes for this game. I am a bit disappointed. But... I think that, given time, it can evolve into something great.
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As others have said, the GURPS Prime Directive Material, despite its flaws, remains on my "must buy" list. This is because, in the past, watching how SVC and the gang handle thier material, I have every confidence in the future quality and viability of this line.
Thanks guys!
1) It has to do with the requirements of the systems. GURPS allowed PD to be a stand alone product that can be expanded by the GURPS and GURPS was done before D20 was ever a plan (not that that has anything to do with it).
D20 does not allow you to reproduce the Players Handbook stuff and states in the license that you MUST require the use of their Player’s Handbook.
So, there is no assumption going on.
1) You actually can reproduce much of the Players Handbook (see SG-1 D20 for an example). The primary issue is space. PD20 would have been at least twice as large (and twice as expensive) if it included all of that material. There is also the practical fact that almost no one is going to pick up PD20 (as opposed to GURPS PD, etc.) unless they already have familiarity with D20 (usually denoted by ownership of the PH or D20 Modern).
Loren Knight wrote: 1) It has to do with the requirements of the systems. GURPS allowed PD to be a stand alone product that can be expanded by the GURPS and GURPS was done before D20 was ever a plan (not that that has anything to do with it).
D20 does not allow you to reproduce the Players Handbook stuff and states in the license that you MUST require the use of their Player’s Handbook.
So, there is no assumption going on.
Oh, I understand. The actual requirements from a d20 standpoint are that you cannot reproduce any system for generating stats, etc. This makes the Player's Handbook a requirement (to a degree). And I fully understand the limitations this places on d20 PD. My query is, however, directed at the desire to make GURPS PD a stand alond product. The things is this: GURPS is an increadible deep, detailed, and expansive game system that allows virtually anything to be modled in its rules. So why not take for granted that someone will have the GURPS Basic Set, and use the additional space in GURPS PD for templates, or history, or what-have-you?
Because at the time this GPD was the only SFU RPG and needed to appeal to all RPG markets as best as possible. It was also a desire to get people that were only interested in JUST SFU role playing something that required a minimal investement.
And it remains the one system in the PD line that is stand alone. If you want to buy just ONE book (asside from the racial source books)then GPD is the book to get.
BTW: The GPD 4e book is bigger than the D20 book by 10 pages.