All things considered that is very impressive for a life support system cranking at twice capacity - modern space life supports sometimes seem like they have trouble when *under*capacity (*cough*Mir*cough*).

By Captain Ebersole (George_Ebersole) on Thursday, March 28, 2002 - 01:16 am: Edit

Couldn't we just say the shuttle can handle it as long as critera X is met? What that criteria would be I don't know.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Thursday, March 28, 2002 - 02:01 am: Edit

George, the trouble is whatever limit we set some players will push it :-)

36 hours at super overcrowding lets you get how far at warp 2.5 (I know I calculated the table, but I don't know how it may have changed in the meantime :-)

by the origional calculation that's right about a 1 parsec range or just over 3 light years.

also a normal overload is supposed to be 2 creew units (~20) with a max overload of 3 crew units (~30) what does gurps do with a 300% overload?

By Davyd Atwood (Blackelf) on Thursday, March 28, 2002 - 10:55 am: Edit

Unless they've changed it, a turn *feels* like a minute to folks onboard the ships, becuase of the time warp effect of a warp engine, or something like that.

(It's a fudge, obviously. My group just says the ships are moving at sub-light, drawing power from the warp engines, and disengage by accel means going to warp. But that's just us.)

Shuttles have warp engines so they presumably have the same effect.

So your 20 turn limit is 20 minutes.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, March 28, 2002 - 12:56 pm: Edit

George, "Criteria X" is that a standard TL11 Admin shuttlecraft has life support for 8. If you overload it, it will eventually fail.

That is how the rules are written. Sorry, but you're all going to die. Pretend you're playing PARANOIA and it won't be so bad.

By Robert Cole (Zathras6) on Thursday, March 28, 2002 - 12:57 pm: Edit

Davyd: I look at it the same way... helps with the ol' sublight base vs. warp ships, ship explosions (sublight)and mines dealing damage to warping ships...

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 04:23 pm: Edit

SVC: I have a small craft design (not a deck plan...yet). Should I post it as a SFB unit first? I suspect it would be a hit GPD unit.

Of course I realise it would be best to wait untill after Origins. Right?

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Email it to me, I can take a look at it.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 12:04 am: Edit

Don't send anything to me or Gary until after Origins.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 12:58 am: Edit

SVC: Sorry, I figured that like I posted but Gary said to, so I did. So now I will just not expect to hear anything until after Origins. (like a wile after, I suspect) I've been refining it anyway. I'll just keep on doing that. I'll then send you a copy(after Origins), Steve.
Good luck a Origins.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Thread moved from WEAPON & EQUIPMENT REQUESTS topic:

I fully agree that there should be a wide range of civilian shuttlecraft -- as wide as possible. I expect we'll have a page or four in MPA on this subject.

The reason I am loathe to start any serious discussion on this subject is that (if you didn't already know) SFB Module J2, which will in stores very soon -- maybe in a month? -- includes rules and specs for 3- and 4-space shuttlecraft; the existing admin shuttle is 1-space, and heavy shuttles (and fighters) are 2-space.

In SFB, the 3 and 4's are called "bombers" and generally cannot land or take off from a ship, only from the ground or a base. Their major military use is planetary defense.

There are also a couple of civilian/admin versions of these Size Class 6 craft in J2. If there was ever a prototype we needed for what we want, this is it! So I'm going to defer any work on this until J2 is out and we can all see the final version of the specs and rules. I'm also going to copy this message over to the PD SMALL CRAFT topic so we can move this discussion there (hint, hint)!

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 03:54 pm: Edit

One key thing to remember is that SFB only needs one or two types of civilian shuttlecraft, while in GPD the more the merrier! I mention this as while we may eventually generate a bunch of civ shuttles for MPA, they're not likely to be reverse-engineered into SFB. SPACE3 specs, on the other hand, are something I absolutely definitly want included in MPA.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 04:38 pm: Edit

Copied from Weapons and Equipment Requests with additional comments: This situation begs for a PTC (Personal Transport Craft). Seats Two to Four plus a small amount of storage. Good for inner-system travel only. Though jumping abord a ferry would be some what common. These would be Half the size of a Adminisrative Shuttle (1/2 shuttle box space) and never be armed. (Though in a GPD campain you might be able to RIG one with a phaser/disruptor rifel.)
Cost on a Ferry would be the same as they take up half the space but require that the Passengers take up accomidations on the Ferry.

Owning one would be like owning a Single Engine Cesna today. With the same level of piloting skills.

Any number of designs would be available and players could draw up their own shape guided by a few general rules. Say, Common or Luxury accomidations at one cost, three types of drive systems (Economy fuel usage(spd 4), standard(spd 4), Fast(spd 6)). Single or Redundant systems. Aerodynamic or Gravatic/tractor landing systems. Three levels of Aerodynamic stelth. Plus some additional features allowed by the GM. Takes two damage in SFB.

I reposted here because I didn't want to loose the idea of a half space PTC (Personal Transport Craft). Not really for use in SFB but accomidated for as a two Damage, 1/2 Space, Speed four Shuttle. Cannot be used for military missions. Though could be used to transport a specific person or small item. These need to be accounted for in SFB because players may choose to use SFB for Space Combat resolution.

Remember, my idea wouldn't take up a lot of space in a publication as players would choose from a standard model or design their own. The design rules could be very simple like I wrote above (with a few details added.)
Designing your own shuttles would be fun for "Off game time". People might even post their own designs. Since we can't really design Star Ships we could get it out of our systems this way (at least a little).

By William F. Hostman (Aramis) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 05:31 pm: Edit

If the PTC is the Cessna 150, then a civilian admin would be akin to the Cessna 208: affordable to the upper middle class, if they don't mind making a payment bigger than their house payment. Useful for small buisiness.

I also would ask that SFB combat stats (DP, DFR, spaces, speed, CSP capacity) be included. And any variants specify which line of combat stats to use.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 06:03 pm: Edit

If there is to be a PTC then I think it should have no weapons. The DF rating should be 0. Speeds like I said above, four or six ( no booster packs either) Cargo Cap? Very little. How about 1 to 5, because we're talking personal items for a day trip. Size= 1/2 spc.

Combat stats for all of the PTC would be the same for SFB ( except for speed, 4 or 6). Only in GPD would you have a veriaty. I.E. Players design their own.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 11:08 pm: Edit

William, Loren: my thoughts exactly, except for the inevitable Q-shuttle.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Q has a shuttle??

By Robert Gilson (Bobcat) on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 10:27 am: Edit

>Q has a shuttle??

Yes a big nasty one. With planet killing weapons.

By Robert Gilson (Bobcat) on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 05:00 pm: Edit

A small Q-ship with lots of Bondian secret weapons would be a great ship for a group of GIA PCs.

By Jonathan McDermott (Caraig) on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 05:59 pm: Edit

But only if it's an ASTON-MARTIN shuttle. ;) The kind that has sub-miniature Type IV's under the hood, hidden warp booster packs, two Ph-3s, a three-point shield, a rack of micro-T-bombs, a one-shot photon cannon, and, oh yes, a wet bar. Just the thing for mixing martinis made with 'Green,' (shaken, not stirred) while dodging ISF frigates....

By Matthew J. Francois (Francois42) on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 06:16 pm: Edit

But we'd have to name it "Vanquish."

-Francois
francois@purdue.edu

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 07:00 pm: Edit

Serious comment: considering that anything remotely resembling a military starship has sensors that can detect weaponry and can blow a shuttle out of space with the first salvo, I think the GIA and other covert agencies would opt for something totally innocent-looking. Any police ship that scans a supposedly civilian shuttle and sees phasers and drones or whatever is certainly going to take a closer look!

If/when I design a modular shuttle, and if/when the Steves approve it -- NOT something I'd bet on -- one option would be a Phaser-3 at best, or other shuttle-borne weaponry.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 04:35 am: Edit

Q-ship weapons are completely hidden at all times (until fired or destroyed) and internal fighter weapons are unknown at all times. The level of information is fairly limited under (D17). However, no covert ship can carry enough weapons to make a get-a-way possible so it is far better to be completely innoucous though that tends to be less fun for an RPG setting.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 02:23 pm: Edit

You're absolutely correct, Richard. But we're talking Q-shuttles, not Q-ships. These are two entirely different things.

As I see it, I cannot see how a Q-shuttle could hide anything from a real starship's sensors. From another shuttle, perhaps, but not from anything Size Class 4 or bigger. No way!

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 05:39 pm: Edit

A Q-shuttle would probably get away with EW pods, chaff packs and better engines. There's not a whole lot of point in it carrying space-based weapons, as even a P3 isn't going to kill anything before Mr Bond gets his doors blown off. As such, it would be most interested in not being seen or shot down.

Ground attack weapons, on the other hand...say twin turret-mounted repeating phasers and a grenade launcher.