Archive through August 12, 2002
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Prime Directive RPG: NEW KINDS OF RPG PRODUCTS:
GPD Small Craft:
Archive through August 12, 2002
I think that its partly just a different world from the one we're used to. Imagine what it would be like if the local cop car had a pair of TOW mounted on it, was capable of 150 mph and had an A10 or two on call for real problems...
I suspect that a much better model are coast guard ships and pleasure yachts (I believe most have some surface warfare weaponry).
In my opinion, if you go look at the Tac Intel tables and then at the Master Weapons Chart, and then think about the mission that GIA espionage personel and spec ops warriors perform, one thing becomes clear; no super shuttle is going to be any use to them 99% of the time. That remaining 1% would be shuttles that are loaded with ECM pods, equiped with hidden areas for smuggling, or that carry special equipment for covert ops on the ground.
Infiltration or insertion would more easily be done by normal civilian methods of access or by a ship of some sort.
I agree that some small system craft are going to be a good addition to GPD, but in the realms of practicality a 'James Bond' or 'Delta Force' shuttle is too much of an announcement of "I'm suspecious, please shoot me."
I'm sure the GIA would get access to an Orion ship or two with cloaking devices when they needed them.
Assuming the GIA hadn't captured a cloaking device or two anyhow.
SVC: any chance for a cloaked Fed ship of some kind, operated by the GIA? Probably only 1 or 2 in existance.
I'd think that besides the strategic and diplomatic ramifications, the maintenance requirements and budget would be murder.
If they do have a cloaking device, it would mostly likely be a less refined version than the current Romulan standard.
This is another layer that is never seen in SFB because it is too small a scale, but let's take the cloaking device that Kirk swiped as an example. Romulans were always making minor mods to the cloak & so while they are all the same type in the GW in SFB, they subtly changed across the years. Call them ver GW.13 & GW.14 & GW.2 versions if you want. (As examples) 
This is why if a cloaked ship is observed for some time (G13.62) it's nature can be determined ("Capt, they're using a ver GW.41 cloak... Adjusting.") but this benefit is lost between scenarios.
I'd say that *IF* a cloak is used by a non-rom they would AUTOMATICALLY get to use the (G13.62) procedure from turn one to account for their familiarity with cloaking devises.
Robert
Maybe the Fed spooks have been tweeking it too. Maybe in a different direction than the Romulans. So now after a few years neither the Feds or the Roms cloaking devices are compatable. Which means neither has an advantage over the other. So two cloaked ships could be wandering around the same system totally unaware of each other.
Except that either SFB or F&E has defined what technology is 'known', 'foreign', and 'limited' to each race and if someone will cite the rule number, I bet it says how 'foreign' technology, like the cloak in Federation possesion, is handled.
R
I firmly believe that if the GIA got their hands on a ship equipped with a cloaking device, they'd keep it for their own uses. Regardless of any laws or statutes.
Of course, it would be kept a very black secret indeed!
See my Transport Fighter proposal in the J3 thread for another way to get Prime Teams from A to B. Though I think it might be too small to get a whole team + kit on a single one, so it's better for insertion of Mr Bond and his kin.
I don't think "transport fighters" even begins to work. At best, you could stick one or two people in the back seat. What's the point?
Because if you want to get something small (say, one or two people, a human organ, a box of drugs, a floppy disk) to the next star system over and you don't have anything bigger to spare, how are you going to do it?
The point is that these things are really cheap compared to warships and much faster than bulk freighters.
Sounds like what you are wanting is a sort of rapid-response shuttle, like that long-range thing that Spock used in one of the seemingly endless series of Star Trek films.
One possibility for a three- or four-space shuttle might be a "Dash sled" that could attach to the bottom of a suitably-equipped shuttle, run at Dash speed to some location, and then have the shuttle detach from the sled so it could dock with a ship. But it would be bloody expensive to use, so probably not seen often.
Remember, J2 states that 3- and 4-box shuttles cannot dock with a ship, ever. This would explain why (in the first movie) Spock's shuttle had to undock from the skid before landing on the Enterprise. Of course, we can't use anything from the movies «sigh» but the rationale is absolutely beautiful!
Gary, send me an e-mail about your ideas re: dash-sled so that I can crunch some numbers and include it in muy travel options/travel time writeup.
Interesting idea about dash-sleds. So, warp booster packs double the speed of the fighter/shuttle and doesn't change the size of the unit at the cost of fragillity. A Dash-sled would add durabillity and speed but double the size of the unit?(Of course like WBPs, it would have a BPV cost too. How much?)
If that's the case, I like it. I like it.
Thinking: It might add some amount of cargo. Perhaps about 5 spaces? You know, for those long hauls. What would be it's stratigic speed? (I think it should be fast enough to disengage by accelleration so at least warp 4.)
I just calculated that speed for fun. Warp 4=speed 64. Exactly two hexs per impulse.
J2 already pretty much has that system (megafighter systems) which, IIRC< can be operated by non-fighter shuttles, as they are too large and bulky to accept such a system (at least without it being too entirely unwieldy to use).
I'm thinking that 'dash speed' for a shuttle would be about the same speed as normal ships speed (possibly matching fast ships speed)
so 4 space shuttles with dash sleds would rival FedEx on short runs, but not have the endurance (crew space, etc) for longer runs.
dash sleds should probably require an overhaul after each run so they can only be used between well settled worlds (you rent it for the trip unless you are a major company that maintains a fleet of them)
If travel is that regular, wouldn't it be more economical to maintain regular starhip lines?
I suppose it comes down to wether ot not travel in the SFU is more Age of Sail/Age of Rail in nature, or more like modern-day.
Alex, part of the answer ends up being a matter of convienience.
between major worlds you will have several options, including the shutlle carriers I described in an earlier post, private ships, and shuttle dash-packs.
think of the privately owned starships as the equivalent of the modern buisness jet, the shuttle dash packs would be the equivalent of the modern buisness helicopter (sort of, you can't bolt anything onto the family car to turn it into a copter... yet :-) shorter range, high operating cost, but very convienient to get exactly where you need to go when you need to go there, great for people who's time is extreamly valuble.
now I equated the shuttle to the family car, but given transporter availability it's probably about as common as a car in manhatten, i.e. not needed for most people and frequently as much of a pain to own as a help.
thinking through the transportation technology available you end up with a fairly unique result.
on a planet transporters will get you around quickly
between a planet and it's moon there are probably stations to act as transporter relays (at least if there's significant traffic between them)
so people who's daily life is in one planetary system have no need for a shuttle.
between planets within a solar system transporters just don't have the range (space is just to vast to run all the nessasary relays) so if your weekly routine takes you between planets you will have a shuttle (the full details are pending my full analysis and writeup for MPA). If your travel is not that common you'll rent/hire a shuttle.
between solor systems a shuttle may be able to make the trip if it's a short one, but is as bad a fit as transporters are between planets, you have to either use a dash-pack, or ride a ferry to get a shuttle there, or for a longer trip a liner or private starship.
you have huge areas that can be covered in a short amount of time, and at the same time trips that take months. it's a very interesting mix that doesn't equate well to either the age of sail/rail or modern day travel
David Lang & others: I intend to follow up on the dash sled idea, but only after I review J2 and find out where the potholes and landmines are.
BTW, I had decided on "dash speed" to emphasize "fast", but we'll see where it goes.
since freighters go from warp 4.5 to warp 8.5 for dash (actually slightly faster with heat limits to limit overall distance travel) having shuttle dash packs go from 2.5 to 7 or 7.25 with duration limits as well is reasonable and keeps the most souped up shuttle in the same speed range as ships (if shuttle dash is 7.25 it can outrun normal ships, but not fast ones) and any real ship going at dash speed will leave the shuttle in the dust, but shuttles are SO much cheaper then ships they can use dash speed more frequently, almost routinely (assuming a suitable supply of dash packs that is)
if a dash-pack can last up to 24 hours at warp 7.25 you end up being able to do about a month's worth of shuttle travel in a day (not exactly, but a nice convienient shorthand to remember it :-) the actual figure is ~31 hours for a months travel, so that ends up saying you do a day's shuttle travel per hour with a dash pack, cool!! I like it when the numbers work out nicely. the cost of dash packs should probably be something really high to limit their use compared to ferrys (what are the costs of operating a starship anyway? that's something that needs to be figured out to allow civilians adventurers who need to worry about how they're going to keep the ship running)
Even at warp 7.25, you still get to take 3.831 days to get from Earth to our nearest star, making it one awefully long shuttle journey.
It would be like riding from Sydney to Perth in a train and only being able to use 1/4 of a carriage to stretch your legs and store your sandwiches.
Gee, the Indian-Pasific is looking kinda comffy.
Do-able, but if you wanted to go any further, you'ld go stir-crazy in a hurry.
MJC, your math is off.
at warp 7.25 you travel 4 LY in just under 90 min, at warp 2.5 you can make the trip in ~40 hours.
you are forgetting the strategic warp scale and doing your math based on the tactical warp scale.
Oh...okay
to get the speeds nessasary to match the known facts (a standard warship can cruise 6 500 parsec F&E hexes in a 6 month period) would have required speeds up around warp 30+ on the classic warp chart, so something had to give, what ended up happening is the classic warp chart is still used for tactical warp (so no fiction needs to be re-written), but longer range movement uses a new chart so that standard GW warships can cruise at warp 7 and still get where they need to go.