Okay, got it.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 04:06 pm: Edit

Another interesting note. While SJG has not had much success with selling adventures for GURPS, d20 players pretty much expect them. I've read some people post in various places that their opinion on any d20 setting is based on adventure support.

By Marc Gillham (Mgillham) on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 05:19 pm: Edit

Sorry, I should have said, those Hero Games adventures are pdf of course.

By George M. Ebersole (George) on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 05:33 pm: Edit

Knarf; back in the day, when D&D was all the rage, most of the product they sold were adventures, so you've got a point. It may be that it varries from system to system. Myself, our group never did a whole lot of fantasy RPGing (though we did do some), but even so we did like a good pre-fab adventure as well as making up our own stuff.

It may be that the GURPS folks are more improvisational or something. Just thinking outloud here.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 06:47 pm: Edit

Both GURPS Klingons and Romulans have Adventure Settings which is what most adventure modules were used for in my time. Quite often we used D&D Adventure modules for the source material rather than playing out the discribed adventure. We would even use bits and pieces in our own adventures.

So, Adventure Modules may not see but a book of adventure settings might. Like SFB has Scenario books, Prime Directive could have a couple Settings books. In these books there would be plans for various things (small ground bases, vehicles, additional weapons, terrain maps etc) and descriptions of people that are at these places (NPC). These books would be full of things like the Abaxis Station article in GR. But they could also be home to any number of small items that relate to the adventure settings within the book.

If REALLY successful there could be Settings books arrainged for particular sectors.

SO, would YOU buy a book that had 12 maped out adventure settings and 3 or 4 articles of various subjects and a fiction story?

Prime Directive: Prime Settings.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 06:48 pm: Edit

OR a Racial follow up book that is primarilly Settings.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 07:09 pm: Edit

Doing a book about a colony world, as a game setting would work, IMO. As a "random sampling" it would give GMs a great example to work from.

By George M. Ebersole (George) on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 10:22 pm: Edit

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SO, would YOU buy a book that had 12 maped out adventure settings and 3 or 4 articles of various subjects and a fiction story?

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By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 10:39 pm: Edit

I'm surprised George, having knowledge of these sorts of places is perfect fodder for fiction pieces. Making referances and possibly even using them outright.

By George M. Ebersole (George) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 12:50 am: Edit

Loren; at one time I would've agreed with you, but I'm not a big PD fan. I banged out the rest of the "Yrth"/"Banestorm" story with the intention of showing how PD could work with other GURPS moduals. Ditto with a couple other stories. Truth is there're elements of PD that I don't care for, and it can be overly confining trying to keep the physics of the story in gear with the ruleset.

One of my biggest frustrations with writing fiction back in 1999 and 1998 were the critiques I got for supposedly steering away from SFB rules, and relying on solely Trek physics. And it snowballed from there with a number of other issues and rules that I had to keep in my head when writing for the SFB milieu. It's part of the reason I've only ever submitted a couple of stories, one of which I was specifically asked to rewrite, then was never contacted about again (the old Carrier story using what would've been E3 material).

I also had other submissions that weren't fiction, but again I felt hampered, restrained, and otherwise disenfranchised by the company's official position on its incarnation of something they did not create, but from which they derived their own creations. Based on that I don't ever plan on playing GPD. Our group doesn't do a whole lot of SFB anyway (though we still break out the counters, map and SSDs every now and then).

GPD for a lot of us is an SFB product, and not really a "Trek" product. And much of that's because of all of the little quirks and deviations SFB takes from the source material. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy a little SFB, but I'm hard pressed to really get into the whole experience anymore.

But, who knows? Maybe I'll get inspired and submit something. But odds are it won't be anything SFB/PD related.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 01:23 am: Edit

Remember that SFU is what our license is for, not "true trek". While George may not like being constrained to write SFU fiction as opposed to Trek fiction, we couldn't print trek fiction if we wanted to, we can only print SFU fiction. Hence, it has to match our version of the trek universe, not one particular fan's version of the trek universe.

I don't really remember the other story, George, but I've dropped a few balls while juggling over the years and could have easily gotten wrapped up in something else and never gotten back to it. Email me a reminder of what the story was called and about and I'll see if I can find it. Over 26 years of this stuff, I've seen people stay mad for years about something I didn't do, only to find out that I tried to do it and they never got or answered the email I sent with questions. In one case (not you) a guy ranted on a news group how come I had asked for a story and never even acknowledged receiving it, when in fact it had been printed 11 years earlier and I had printed no less than six "please contact me as the check we mailed to you came back marked undeliverable" notices.

By George M. Ebersole (George) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 01:42 am: Edit

SVC; I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to cast your company in a bad light, it's just that that's what happened, and those are some of the creative issues I've had. I recall you calling it [the other story] "a real ripsnorter," and wanted it for possible publication in SSJ1, but it never happened.

IIRC there were other issues happening at the time, but I don't know what they all were. You asked Leanna to contact me, which never happened. I then asked SPP to look into it, but I guess he also got bogged down with work.

I'll send you an email as per your request.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:12 am: Edit

George: I can appreciate your concern to find out what happened, although you could have just asked me any time instead of criticizing me in public. Whatever your intention, you certainly succeeded in making us look bad (and in making us less interested in dealing with you as a writer).

Near as I can tell, the story was put into the file of stuff from Core Worlds to wait for the guy who did that to complete some things necessary to publish it. (We obviously couldn't use the story until we published the Core Worlds.) You and I are both waiting on the Core Worlds guy.

I have little doubt you were told at the time that we were waiting for him and since he never showed up, we never looked at the file again, since it was a dead letter.

I am also certain that your timing is off by a ways. Six or seven years ago would have been in the first months of the new company (or before) and the concept of SSJ (in the form it was finally published) didn't even exist then. I think this was all about 3-4 years ago after E2 was published when we were talking to Sean about his Core Worlds becoming E3. We were pulling in a lot of fan stuff at that time related to Core Worlds and then Sean just dropped the project without any real explanation.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:00 am: Edit

What was the basic concept of Core Worlds? I don't recall hearing of this.

By Jack Snyder (Jack) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:18 am: Edit

>>SO, would YOU buy a book that had 12 maped out adventure settings and 3 or 4 articles of various subjects and a fiction story?<<

As stated before: mini, maxi or even seeds.

RE: "True Trek". SFU is a big place. The Starship Enterprise can't visit them all. There were (according to her captain) a dozen other ships _just like her_.

So long as there are no bumpy headed Klingons (with honor), bumpy headed Romulans (without honor), bumpy headed/bumpy nosed *races that can't be mentioned* (thank goodness) or 12's of 10's I think it would be ok.

There is already in place a vast merchant/slave trade organization (Orions) so lumpy headed guys are redundant and unusable anyway. BTW: "The Cage/The Menagerie"" established that not all Orion slavers and merchants are Orions. Pike wanted to quit Starfleet and go do just that. What does that mean for the SFU? Are there major security issues at hand?

I *do* realize that SFU and "True (Classic) Trek" can't be wholly integrated. GPD is an RPG using the SFU wargame environment and history.

However, for those of us who want our "True (Classic) Trek" as close to the original as possible and not muddied by post-cold war politics and other bizarre factors, this is as close as we're likely to get without making one ourselves.

I mean realy, we all know TNG Risa is TOS Wrigley's Pleasure Planet. Simple things like that are fairly easy to correct without even the need of addressing, so information of that nature is useless.

Sherman's Planet is another story - was it an actual staging ground? Did the fears of the Klingons _make_ it one? Neural.. what happened after that other Captain left? Did the Klingons make a better offer later and spiral into a balance of force issue totally out of control? Were there other Klingon agents placed in sensetive positions of authority in the fleet or on Starbases? What about UESPA? Stardates give the impression that either Starfleet or UESPA may be a new creation only a few years old (my guess is UESPA taking into account established SFU history - in "Classic Trek" I would probably reverse that opinion). Was the Starship Enterprise the flagship of the newly created branch? Prime Teams and RPG adventures are a perfect fit for something like these examples I would think without having to dilute SFU history.

Thanks for the replies to my questions, and taking an interest in customer desires. It says good things about the company.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:46 am: Edit

Loren: wrong topic.

Jack: we include settings and seeds in our books, and often canned adventures. Klingons, for example, has a station where trade takes place, a list of seeds, a colony planet where Lt Thirek is conducting a training experiment with troops the empire considers hopeless, and a fiction story that could spawn adventures.

As far as unofficial ways for players to include this or that part of this or that trek, I leave that to them. If it's not in our license, we can't do it (even by sneaky backdoor routes) and can't tell you where to find it, but I hear that you can find anything with google.

By George M. Ebersole (George) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:49 am: Edit

SVC; timewise all I remember is that it was before 9/11, which would've put it around 2000 or 1999. And no, I was never told anything via email. You may've mentioned a lack of action by the Aussies (who'd taken over development for E3) on one of the old proposal threads a few years back, but I don't recall anything specific; other than Sean needing to put school as a priority. Which, if I recall correctly, is why he delegated the project to the folks down under.

My apologies if you feel you've been unduly criticized. I've actually mentioned this a few times before on these boards.

Thanks for the responses.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:54 am: Edit

Module E2 was published in 2001, and nothing was considered about Shield before that, so that would put this all happening no earlier than summer 2001.

I am really not aware of Sean delegating anything to anybody in Australia. Nobody there has contacted me about Shield and certainly hasn't delivered anything, not a draft, not something publishable.

As for a specific notice to you about the story, a general post that Shield isn't going to happen until Sean does his thing (or gets somebody else to do it) covers it. We have (I have since checked) more than two dozen "fan items related to shield" in the file and would not have notified those people individually, but by the general update.

This isn't the topic for this anyway, George, so if you have further questions, send them by Email.

By Sean Bartholome (Kana) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 01:45 pm: Edit

[SVC: I hate to delete messages but this topic isn't about Core Worlds. I don't know if there is one or not. Given that the project seems to have died 3-4 years ago I am not sure we need to start one.]

By George M. Ebersole (George) on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 03:54 am: Edit

Loren; to add to the answer, some of the GURPS books are proprietary, so they're hands off. But the general stuff, GURPS books that aren't based off licensed material but generic in nature, are on a case by case approval basis. Example; you could probably use a GURPS book that dealt with police procedures or black ops, but not Castle Falkenstein, Planet Krishna nor Uplift, as those are books based off of other published works. Even so an author can still get inspiration from them, and create something new and unique.

A GURPS PD mag would perfect for that kind of thing.

By Matthew Pulido (Talison) on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 08:59 am: Edit

Actually quite a few GURPS books I have make referance o these licenced books. I'm reading GURPS Age of Napolean and they basically tell you how to mix it with an altered Castle Falkenstein campaign. Every thing I have remotely linked to horror suggests mixing with GURPS Deadlands and some mention Hellboy.

I don't see why we couldn't at least least suggest a PD/Castle Falkenstein adventure in an adventure seeds section of the book (or something similar).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:18 am: Edit

Any reference to any SJG GURPS book has to be approved in advance on a case-by-case basis. If somebody did an adventure seed mentioning Castle Valkenburg or whatever and SJhisownself reject it, I could whip up a four-sentence seed to replace it on demand in 5 minutes. If however, somebody wrote an 21-page thing based on GURPS VORKOSIGAN or whatever and SJhisownself rejected it, we'd have some trouble getting it replaced in a hurry.

Then you run into the problem that lots of wargamers out there want to write something and think they will but never do. So if Mathew said "go ask SJ if it's ok for me to write a Castle Falkenstein crossover" I have the problem in that if I go through the hassle of getting a provisional clearance and the manuscript doesn't show up, then SJ is mad at me for wasting his time, and even if he said "such a manuscript would not be instantly rejected" he'd still have to approve the final and might reject it outright.

Basically, if anybody wants to write an adventure, then go write it. If it gets past me and my lawyer and then gets past SJ we'll find a home for it.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:52 am: Edit

Another thought: I would think hard about what specifically you like about the other property. If you like the idea of a physically weak, superintelligent military genius, then make one of your own. If you just want to have Mary Sue hang out with Captain Kirk and Miles Vorskogian, well, that's what fanfic is for.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:10 am: Edit

The point of the proposal I made a bit back was that it wasn't a magazine (i.e. something produced on a schedule). Like the SFB scenario book they would be part of the general line of PD source books. But they would have a mag feel in that though they are "seeds and settings" based there would be some variety to the material inside (various stuff that supports the seeds and settings).

By Sean J. Young (Kolevi) on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 11:15 pm: Edit

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Quote:

Module E2 was published in 2001, and nothing was considered about Shield before that, so that would put this all happening no earlier than summer 2001.

I am really not aware of Sean delegating anything to anybody in Australia. Nobody there has contacted me about Shield and certainly hasn't delivered anything, not a draft, not something publishable.

As for a specific notice to you about the story, a general post that Shield isn't going to happen until Sean does his thing (or gets somebody else to do it) covers it. We have (I have since checked) more than two dozen "fan items related to shield" in the file and would not have notified those people individually, but by the general update.

This isn't the topic for this anyway, George, so if you have further questions, send them by Email.

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