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A few things:

*That timeline is just my own idea, not anything official.

*The 'Barbarians' are actually the Barbarian simulator race from Module C4 (the Sharkhgunters are on that map, too) - sorry if it was unclear.

*I deliberately wrote that timeline to take account of how the Concordium might look in that universe - an ISC which could be made to fit the rest of the Octant as required. There are ideas going around for the Vulcans et al, I wasn't aiming to add to that debate for the time being.


Gary

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 02:51 am: Edit

Jeremy Gray produced the first Looking Glass map with the fragmented ISC, with neutral zones between the races. I tinkered with the map to open up more space on the edges of the Concordium. Each system control out to two hexes (max reaction range using Early Years ground-based sensors).

I'll work on a broader update and a new timeline. I have a few updates to the map after having played a few campaigns on it.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 12:24 pm: Edit

Thanks for the info.

What do you think of my take on the Concordium?


Gary

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Friday, January 12, 2007 - 11:49 pm: Edit

I like it. I hadn't spent much time on that side of the map yet. I envisioned a series of small civil wars among the ISC members to keep them out of the Gorn and Romulan affairs during Early Wars, but that was about it.

The Souldra incursions from Y187 though Y198 could be a serious distraction, occurring right as it does at the start of the Pacification. Earlier Souldra incursions could be used to keep the ISC weak (or to cause them to unite). I have some SSDs for late-War ISC "Void Cruisers", basically battleship-sized tugs designed to cross thin spots in the Void (even establish bases on the other side).

On the other side of the Sharkhunters are the Sigvirions, so that's another distraction for that side of the map. I toyed with the idea of the Sigvirions invading the Sharkhunter water worlds for new homes for the Je'Shar. Sigvirions could also create "space whales" using variations of the Alundi or Branthodon rules (Sharkhunter gods made flesh to trigger the Jihad?).

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 01:00 am: Edit

Gary: Could you summarize what makes your proposal into an interesting universe to set adventures in?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 01:10 am: Edit

Steve :

Well, in my own idea there would have been no Pacification - even if the ISC felt the need, they were too busy trying to disupt the local RTN.

And if signifcant Souldra activity was taking place prior to the Andro War, I would not be surprised if the Pacification ended up as a non-starter (since at least one fleet would need to stay in the DZ to fight the Souldra).

I wouldn't picture the ISC ships as being able to go far into the Void at all without Loriyill guides.

And while the Souldra are fine as adversaries to a Y190s ISC, the Sigs are anoter story.

For a start, the whole problem of the Je'shar thing was that they couldn't get them into orbit, let alone drag a few across the Void.

Also, while the Souldra can be introduced without too much trouble, a Sig presence would have to bewritten in the context of that race's fate in Omega... and therefore, that of the many races the Sigs 'historically' fought and/or conquered. And that kind of detail is likely beyond the sscope we need (unless we assume that Omega is largely unchanged).

One damaged Sig ship ending up in the Sharkhunter Home Waters, perhaps - but I wouldn't go much further than that.


Gary

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 05:46 pm: Edit

Richard: Well, let's see:

*The early growth of the Five Races - one can try to establish one of the early colonies, try to act as an emissary between the often-rival governments, and fight in the early Wars.

*The First Contacts - when the races run into the Romulans, Paravians and others, what takes place? Are your characters involved? And in the months and years to come, will your team set out to trade - or to fend off Barbarian raids?

*The Frontier Wars and the founding of the ISC - for the first time, all five Races are on the same page, but things don't always go smoothly. Serve aboard the first 'unified' ships, and lead the allies to victory. Or work with Veltran Toressai to help get the Great Inter-Stellar Accord signed, to bring the ISC to life!

*New expansions, new clashes - as the ISC colonises former Barbarian territory, welcomes new member races, explores the Distiant Zone, and tangles with Paravian and Romulan warships (plus the odd Souldra and Andromedan ship), there's plenty to keep your team busy - and in the first few decades of the ISC's life, internal relations do not always run smoothly... Try to find your own way in a Concordium divided between those suspicious of other races, and those from all five worlds seeking to found a new union.

*Here come the Andros! - The Andromedans are coming, and they mean business. Time to step up and defend the Concordium, and sail off to the Cloud and finish the job. And don't forget, you might be needed by a friendly Loriyill or dozen out in the Void, to help sort out those pesky Souldra!


These are just a few ideas, but I hope they help.


Gary

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 02:28 pm: Edit

Steve Zamboni:


When you are going to update the Looking Glass map and timeline, could you consider adding my take on the ISC races to it?


Gary

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 02:36 pm: Edit

I had completely missed Steve Zamboni's adaptation of my old Looking Glass map. I like it Steve. It has been a long time sense I even looked at that thing.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Did you catch my extrapolation for the ISC, and my own take on an alternate-ISC map?

Anything that isn't on this page is in the Jan 11, 2007 archive.

(I may have to change the earliest ISC data, to reflect what will be in the CL35 early ISC article.)


Gary

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 02:44 pm: Edit

Have not had time to digest it all. Looking glass was an idea I played around with for a short time. Like several projects I have on my website, they came and went with sort of a wimper.

http://www.jgray-sfb.com/special.html

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 01:44 am: Edit

Gary: I'm keeping an eye on the ISC developments in the Y2 discussions and CL35. I'm still trying to wrap myself around the whole "warp means peace" concept (and at what point Looking Glass rejects it). I have several updates to add, but I'm trying to pick a year for the map so I can synchronize the timelines before uploading.

Jeremy: Any corrections or additions to the project would be welcomed. I sent a few emails way back when, but it looked like I had a bad address. I figured you would stumble across it eventually.

By FV (Rhialto) on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 05:24 pm: Edit

I haven't seen any decent ideas for the WYN star cluster. My take on the WYNs is this:

The Klingon Commonwealth used it as a kind of penal colony (think England's approach to Australia here). They'd send miscreant Klingons 9and others) there on (presumed) one-way trips in decrepid freighters. They were as surprised as anyone when signals started emerging from the cluster. In this reality, the cluster is still independant, but ethnically dominated by Klingons and those races native to the Klingon Commonwealth, with a smattering of Kzintis, Lyrans, and Orions.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 06:09 pm: Edit

FV, just to let you know that per the board posting rules you are required to use your full real name to post on this board.

We'd all love to have you stay around but I'd expect your account to be deleted some time soon.

Wyn Cluster as a Klingon Penal colony is an interesting idea.

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 08:08 pm: Edit

My idea for an interesting alt reality would be if the Tholians had settled next to the Hydrans to their immediate West and actually being allies with the Hydrans-even perhaps forming a union (since neither lived in the same kind of environment) the resulting allied force would be something to contend with (And I've ALWAYS wanted to get gatlings on Tholian fighters!).

regards
Stacy

By Randy O. Green (Hollywood750) on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 05:15 pm: Edit

How about one where it was the Gorn systems that took the sunsnake strike...

Oh that's been done...

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 12:50 am: Edit

I think that the Klingons would'nt waste freighter hulls, no matter how decrepit, just to kill people. They'd just execute them - it's much cheaper. The Klingons do have penal colonies, however. If, somehow, the Klingons discovered that the WYN cluster was colonizable, they certainly might set up penal (or even normal) colonies within the Cluster. A Cluster-wide mutiny might have occurred, and the Klingons may have had difficulty re-taking the Cluster. Possibly with the Kzintis/Lyrans interfering to help maintain the Cluster's independence.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 01:38 am: Edit

Terry's right and I had similar thoughts.

A though about Penal Colonies.

Klingons have penal colonies because they profit from the labor and they are not just murdering bastards (even Mirror Universe Klingons would understand this basic nature of living things).

Even the Klingons know that you can only subjugate a people only so much and if you are quick to execute then you only produce more desparate and dangerous criminals. If people don't have some hope then they will never give up and you don't want killings on the streets. You want them hoping all the way to the chamber that somehow they'll live. You supplie that hope by not being too quick to execute every criminal.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 09:09 am: Edit

You're ascribing human motivations to Klingons. Bad idea!

A Klingon would never give up if he thought fighting was the honorable thing to do. They may prefer to die just to prove a point.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 09:41 am: Edit

Gary,

that may be true with any particular individual but I'm talking about masses.

And criminals are not out to prove a point in most cases. They are by nature, in any race, self interested. Someone so self interested isn't going to be willing to die to prove a point.
Some may but only because their cause is made criminal and they are they type that are self sacraficing in the fight for some moral cause but most criminals are not that.

Are Klingons tough mean people? Sure some are but I'd bet that any Klingon would be shocked at what some humans can stoop to. Their society may be short of the human ideal but I'm sure humans have gone as low or lower than any Klingon ever did.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 07:30 pm: Edit

Feel kinda odd bumping this very-old-thread, but a recent discussion with my group recalled some conversations we'd had here, in the past.

Specifically - one of the 'problems' they have with the Stellar Shadows material to date is that it is presented as 'just a list of things that aren't true and/or never were'.

So it's uninteresting to them.

The idea that was discussed in this thread - specifically, that the SFU really has, for all intents and purposes, ONE 'parallel universe' from it, allows for these same ideas to be explored in more detail, in relation to each other, which provides some value to the ideas.

Basically, by grouping them together and saying "these things are related" allows ALL of them to have more value. (And this has been done a few times - for example, with Omega...if each race had been presented on its own as "here is another race that could have been in the Alpha Sector, but wasn't"...would ANYONE be interested in it? By putting them all together and saying "this is the Omega sector"...NOW you've got something to offer as a place to visit/explore.

I think the SFU could benefit from that, but in SFB/FedCom terms, as well as the RPG materials.

Basically, outline a rough example for what the Alpha Sector would look like in a single, unified, 'parallel universe' (preferably working in as much of the Stellar Shadows ships/material/etc as possible...perhaps in background for this universe, something like the General War happened much earlier and with the interstellar equivalent of WMDs. With the 'major empires' just a shell of their presence in our universe afterwards, more of the Stellar Shadows minor races showed up, and more odd technology was introduced in the 'major empires' to make up for their smaller economies/sizes?)

It'd make a good place for 'Stellar Shadows' to continue into, and could make for an interesting single RPG supplement.