Hey Sean, it's old news. But thanks

By George M. Ebersole (George) on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:18 pm: Edit

How about making the Prime Directive Journal an online only thing; one published in PDF format?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:45 pm: Edit

We probably wouldn't make enough money to be worth the time. What benefit would there be to anyone by that publication route?

By George M. Ebersole (George) on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 09:25 pm: Edit

I figured if the Traveller guys do it, then it might be something that PD could use. I guess I'm strictly suggesting PDFs for RP material, not neccesarily SFB stuff.

The way it works over at Citizens of the Imperiumn is that a customer buys the right to DL a PDF file. And should they forget or lose it, then can DL it again.

It just seemed a more convenient format for a RP journal (I think your friend Steve Jackson has a similar setup for his products). It might invite and allow more story material, lower prices for the customer, and a wider circulation. I don't really know, but I thought it might be worth considering.

By Andrew Marrington (Mazza) on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 08:25 am: Edit

When I buy PDF products for RPGs, they tend to be "splat book" type products. These include adventures/adventure settings, pre-made characters, new prestige classes, maps, and so on. Anything which wouldn't be a stand alone book purchase on its own.

Occasionally I buy PDF versions of larger source books which I cannot get for reasonable prices in Australia despite the plummeting US Dollar notionally increasing my buying power OR which I really want immediately (i.e. not 4 to 6 weeks for it to ship to Australia). I bought GURPS Space this way even though I could've ordered a print copy of the book, but such a purchase is rare for me, and if the Australian distributors ever adjust their prices in recognition of the fact that the Australian dollar no longer buys just 50 US cents, I might still buy a hardback version.

I never buy a PDF version of an RPG rulebook for an RPG I actually intend to play. I always buy the print versions. The only RPGs whose main rules I buy in PDF form tend to be old and out of print and I just want them to read. Nothing beats holding a book in your hand when you're actually running a game session.

Judging from what seems to sell most successfully on PDF RPG sales sites like DriveThruRPG.net, it seems that a lot of roleplayers buy PDF products like I do.

So my feelings on PDF products for Prime Directive? I'd buy "little things" in PDF form, but the Prime Directive books are great quality source books of a good size. I would always prefer to buy the paper version of books of the standard of Klingons or Romulans.

The only Prime Directive product I can think of which I'd really like in PDF form would be deck plans for ships and space stations, or maps of other "Prime settings". I'd almost prefer these in PDF form than printed in a copy of Captain's Log, say, because I would have to photocopy them from a book in order to use them anyway, so it is easier to be printing them out instead.

By George M. Ebersole (George) on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 04:16 am: Edit

How about a periodical?

By Andrew Marrington (Mazza) on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:23 am: Edit

If Wizards of the Coast shutdown their various magazines for Dungeons and Dragons, I can only assume that they didn't make money. I can therefore only assume that if the biggest RPG can't support a monthly periodical, Prime Directive would struggle to do so.

That said I like the idea. I would think that a periodical like that would have to be driven by a community of Prime Directive players writing material for it. You yourself have said in this topic though that you wouldn't buy books which consisted of adventure settings, fictions, and assorted shorter articles, which is largely what most RPG periodicals consist of.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:07 am: Edit

The situation is far more complex than that. If I recall, those magazines were done by outside companies making money hand over fist, and were shut down to bring the business inside the corporation, not for lack of making sales.

By Scott Alan Woodard (Ogma) on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:36 am: Edit

From what I've heard, Steve's got it right. Up until late 2007, Paizo Publishing handled both "Dungeon" and "Dragon" magazines and it was, from all reports, a successful publication for them (thus their quick, self-produced follow-up, "Pathfinder" which they hoped would fill the gap left by the loss of the other two mags).

Wizards Of The Coast is now making both magazines on-line only. While I was never a subscriber of "Dragon" or "Dungeon," I did occasionally pick up an issue. Now that they are on-line only, I have no interest in either title anymore. To me, nothing beats a printed and bound periodical that I can snatch from a newstand over something I can only read online (or something that will require an ink cartridge and a ream of paper to convert into hardcopy)!


Now, Andrew, I do think you hit on a great idea there regarding the creation of a Prime Directive "fanzine" (and I use that term loosely because with publishing software today, the results could appear quite professional!)

~Scott

By Andrew Marrington (Mazza) on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 02:59 am: Edit

The fact that Wizards went online led me to assume that they didn't think magazine publishing was a worthwhile business for them. "Not making money" would be an ignorant over-simplification on my part.

The next question about the Prime Directive "fanzine", is whether the Prime Directive community could come up with enough material for its own fanzine. Maybe those of us interested in writing such material should try submitting it to Captain's Log first? I assume that such submissions would be welcome.

By Scott Alan Woodard (Ogma) on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 09:51 am: Edit

I've always had the impression that 'Captain's Log' really isn't the best forum for Prime Directive material. It's a TERRIFIC publication (especially since I'm a huge fan of Federation Commander), but there's a reason the industry publishes miniature wargame magazines like 'Wargames Illustrated' or 'Battlegames' as well as RPG magazines like 'Dragon' and 'Pathfinder' and never the twain shall meet.

All that said, in this 21st Century (internet savvy) world of ours, I am positively SHOCKED that there aren't MORE Prime Directive support pages out there (with session reports, adventure seeds, house rules, etc.)

By Andrew Marrington (Mazza) on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 04:57 pm: Edit

White Dwarf's original format combined the two pretty successfully, but I digress. I suppose there would be a lot of SFB and FC players out there who would feel like PD was "wasted pages", and maybe there'd be PD players out there who would feel the same about the rest of Captain's Log.

Given the last canon Trek RPG, the CODA version, only really had one significant Internet fan forum, which it shares with enthusiasts for the Last Unicorn Games Trek RPG, FASA Trek, and even Prime Directive, it doesn't surprise me as much.

It seems to me that a good fan-driven Internet site would be easier to get together than a fanzine or even an ADB published PD periodical. I've been toying with the idea for one of these for a while. When I finish teaching summer classes, I'll have to look seriously into getting an ADB authorised website together for this sort of material. Since that would coincide with the planned beginning of my next campaign, I would at least have some material from my own campaign to get up there for other PD players to use if they like.

By William F. Hostman (Aramis) on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 04:26 pm: Edit

I don't know about Andrew's experience, but there were several boards with Trek discussions during the run of D-Trek. Decipher had a board, TrekRPG had a board supporting all trek editions (tho mostly LUG), there was a Trek RP board on one of the older online services, and there were a couple of email lists.

As for PDF: I don't buy much in dead tree anymore. In fact, ALL of my 2010 gaming purchases have been PDF, as have all but one of my 2009Q4.

I've run entire RPG campaigns from PDF, and found that the big hangup was CGen. To be brutally honest, I much prefer being able to use the electronic search over having to flip pages. I use both laptob and dedicated ebook reader; my preferred format has always been 5x8", and that still is true with my Sony PRS500 & PRS600 (Unless the type is large, say 14 point, it gets too small to read a LTR formatted PDF on them).

Further, PDF versions are not much added time if sold via third party routes (DTRPG, RPGNow, IPR, Lulu etc), as it's submitting a PDF, which can be rendered by all major layout software of the last decade. Heck, PM6 included distiller more than a decade ago.

The only major issues with PDF are making certain maps go in in vector formats; doing so increases their utility twice: one, they can be printed larger cleanly; two, on screen they can be zoomed readily without distortion.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 05:53 pm: Edit

I would GUESS that SVC would publish a PD adventure if YOU write it.

He has already given the go ahead for a SHORT CL fiction piece. Which I presume would also require a short "module" in the same CL.

I get the impression that RPGs ain't his thing.

That said, IF it doesn't have to have an expensive cover, his POD machines should make it easy (says me who knows nothing about his business model, how the work flows work at ADB or publishing in general) for him to put it out and not be caught holding a bunch of unsold product...

And if we can send in enough stuff perhaps CL could come out more often! I always get the impression that its more "get the stuff to fill it" than anything else that limits it to 2 a year.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 06:17 pm: Edit

Rambling thoughts...

1. Until Jean shows up in Amarillo, there probably isn't enough manpower in ADB Inc. to launch a new series like this.

2. My thing ain't the point. What I'm already doing and need to keep feeding puts a limit on what I can do.

3. Two per year is a nice rate of flow. We've done two CapLogs a year for a decade and it's a good way of doing things, but even this is not possible with the current manpower.

4. When Jean is here full time, the PD magazine (Final Frontier) becomes a high priority project. Figure when Jean's here she might actually do six-eight major books a year. That works out to two final frontiers, a new system launch, and a new book for the existing systems. And that only works if Jean figures out that it's better to let the book she's proofread twice go to press without a third proofreading and spend the time on the first proofreading of an entirely new book. It's frankly amazing how much Jean gets done in her "spare time" and she could easily do four times that much on a full time basis.

5. Until Jean gets here, any new PD book would have to fight for a slot in Jean's schedule. How many books can "part time Jean" do a year? (Twice as many if she quits proofreading them to death, but I digress.) Say two or three, max. One of those could be Final Frontier #1.

6. Right now, Jean is buried in PD FED, but that will come to a conclusion in the first half of this year. What would she do next? The core book for Savage Worlds or D6? The Tholian book? What it comes down to is, at the time PD FED is finished, what the "survey of available projects" works out to (and the likelyhood that half-finished manuscripts would actually GET finished if she started working on them; we cannot risk investing months of Jean's time in a book she cannot finish). Right now, Loren is scraming to put Tholians in position for her to pick, as are the guys doing Savage Worlds and D6 and at least one other book, and I'm hounding her to wrap up PD20M-Romulans which ought to be "easy".

7. Getting Final Frontier #1 to a point that Jean might pick it (at some point where she picks a book) means you guys have to generate a bunch of stuff that might go into a book which nobody has defined the contents of. Certainly, it would need a story, an adventure, a set of deck plans, and a whole posse of other stuff. The more stuff in the "hey, that could go into FF#1" file, the more likelyhood that FF#1 gets picked. I don't think you can get it ready in time for the post-PD FED draft choice, but if you don't get busy NOW, you won't have a shot at the decision that will follow whatever comes after PD FED.

8. The limit on Captain's Log is not "finding stuff to fill it." We decided that the company's product line development plan needed two issues a year, and designed a system that creates 240 pages of content per year. Doing a third issue is not a matter of more content falling out of the sky; it's a matter of deciding to do another CapLog INSTEAD of something else. See below. What product line do you ignore so you can do a third issue of Captain's Log?

9. In a general sense, the demands for product release slots are pretty wicked. Consider a "typical year" at ADB Inc.:
Captain's Log for May
Captain's Log for Nov
Major FedComm expansion plus three boosters, three squadron boxes, and a border box.
Minor Fed com release (Briefing)
Bonus booster or two for FedComm.
Two major SFB modules (one with counters, one without)
A Starmada module
An F&E module
Two RPG books
Another product or two (pick from: card game expansion, Klingon Invasion, Battlestations Star Fleet, Silent Death Star Fleet, a second module for Starmada, a second module for F&E, a third captain's log, a third RPG book, Federation Admiral, Star Fleet Assault, a third SFB module, the list is endless).

10. PDF Sales are a direction we are moving, but you have to consider, we're rarely going to do any kind of significant product which is sold ONLY as a PDF. So doing a PDF as a means to make more money from a product we did in hard copy will happen, but PDF as a means to get more total products done will not. The limit on products is the ability to create them, not the ability to print them. There are no finished products waiting around for us to print them.

By Andrew Gelbman (Madprophet) on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 11:49 pm: Edit

The neat thing about GURPS is that there is a lot of material out there that converts rather easily to the Trek/Fleet universe. A lot of the GURPS Traveller material is compatible if you account for the generally higher Treknology.

The Ultratech books are compatible as are the Space Atlases.

Personally, I leave the Starship Operations to SFB/Federation Commander - I never understood the value in converting a perfectly good starship combat system to a cumbersome RPG format.

A webzine for the RPG, perhaps as a fan project ala' Freelance Traveller isn't a bad idea if ADB is amenable.

Being GURPS is so adaptable, you could add stuff from the canon universe, generic alien types and so on - PPC has been amenable to this sort of use of their IP by gaming inclined fans and as a fan publication it doesn't impact on ADB's license with PPC. Additionally, it makes no demands on the ADB staff since anything appearing on the webzine is decidedly Unofficial.

Anyway, as always, it's ADB's call.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 07:17 am: Edit

Andrew, anything published by ADB, Inc. will have to be official SFU.

First, we cannot risk our license with Paramount by having a fan slip in a reference to Paramount's IP.

Second, we have always been consistent within the SFU. I'm not about to see unbalanced species or weapons creep in.

Third, I don't have the time yet to devote to this project. I still have a RL job and that has to take precedence. SVC and I have discussed my situation and we agree on that.

When I retire and move to Amarillo, then we'll reevaluate.

By Andrew Gelbman (Madprophet) on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Like I said, your call

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 12:00 pm: Edit

Oh, we REALLY want to do this product, we just don't have the manpower until Jean gets here.

If you really want this magazine, call Jean's boss and make up something really unprofessional that Jean said about her.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 12:06 pm: Edit

WHANG!

STEVE!

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 01:30 pm: Edit

Great Back hand Shot!

Go Jean!

(come on, tell us the truth... have you been practicing on the side!?!)



I score it as a '10' on execution and style, '10' on finese, and a '10' on accuracy!

we'll have to wait for the reports from the East German Judges, but all indications are that it was particularly well played!

(Joke! its a Joke I tell you! get your grubby simian hands off me you (slang term deemed inappropriate for this venue)).

(sounds of scuffling in back ground as ADB auxiliary security squad wrestles for control of the situation.)

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Jeff, you forgot to score the pain meter on that one. a 10? or was it so good it was highter?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Jean's boss's phone number is...

WHANG!

By ROBERT l cALLAWAY (Callaway) on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 02:31 pm: Edit

Stop messing with jeans Penson!
you can't aford to replace it and she can't move to TX without it

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 04:28 pm: Edit

Hmmm.... (looking critically at the records.)

No, not a perfect '10', the subject (target?!?) is still up and posting to the BBS.

give it a little time, and maybe we can score the second "WHANG! as a perfect 10.

It all depends on how long the count is before he gets up and posts again!



(Note to ROBERT cALLAWAY: I am not messing with Jeans Pension. I am merely offering critical commentary on the gamesmanship of her #8 Griswold.)