That is a situation I've already worked on but I'll say this. The Federation is extremely busy with all manner of crisis. While the Klingons cannot really pursue rougue Seltorians into the Federation, the Feds are ill equipped to bother with them either. The Selts are going to stay away from any government, if possible. Any who are not under a Cartels protection (as virtually property, of course) would find many places to survive and avoid contact with other species in the Federation devestated zones.
However, in time, the GIA would be VERY interested in getting ahold of any who are around.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Monday, June 02, 2008 - 11:08 pm: Edit

Some more background

The draft Seltorian F&E scenario is in CL#17. The planet the Klingons let them use is in hex 2418, which one hex in from the original NZ and adjacent to the Klingon major industrial planet of Kypruss.

Gurps Klingon indicates Kypruss is: Home port of the Tholian border squadron; operates like an unofficial warrior colony; is a major trading port with the Romulans, Federation, and Gorns; is heavily defended.

Klingon verses ISC: Scenario SL164 TO PACIFY A KLINGON is in Y187; Scenario SL165 EAT MY DUST and SH25 SOLVING THE PROBLEM are in Y188.

However the timeline has the ISC Echelon of Judgement destroying the Seltorian base and hive ship in Y186. The Klingons discover a secret about the Selts and destroy the rest of them (at the planet and Klingon bases?). A few hundred flee to the Federation. Y190 the last of the Selt workers die.

CL#25 has the draft ISC F&E campaign. Hex 2518 is included in the list of the battle station locations. Based on the spacing pattern appears it should be 2516 (or a really big battle happened). All of the border BATS are not there. The ISC zone is then three hexes across.

Given the year of attack and the location of the Seltorian hive ship and planet, in 2418, survival of any Seltorian ships, at the planet, is low. I would think only those on patrol in the NZ might survive.

By Dale Lloyd Fields (Dylkha) on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 04:04 pm: Edit

Loren

I don't know if this would be interesting to you, but Discovery of New Dwarf Galaxies in the M81 Group. Mostly it talks about using dwarf galaxies to get a handle on the type of Universe we live in and precisely how well their study was done (i.e. how much should you trust them), but there is some stuff that relates to the galaxies in M81 as well. Nothing will affect your work on PDT, but I figured if you had nothing else to do, it might give a touch of flavor text. The sections you might be interested in would be Section 4.1 and 4.2 of the discussions section (ppg. 20-24), Figure 19 (pg. 55) for pictures of the dwarfs, and maybe Figures 30 (pg. 64) and 33 for locations of the dwarfs. Again, this isn't anything revolutionary, but I saw "M81" and thought of you.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 05:41 pm: Edit

Thanks,

If I ever get on SFBOL I think M81 should be my call sign.

the more info the better. So far, all the projects I have have currently found a home. If anything it will help with producing a more complete map (yes, folks, there is a map of M81 for PDT.)

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 01:14 pm: Edit

Loren,


I may have mentioned this before, but if there is room in the Holdfast history section, there is a particular detail mentioned in the Omega MRB that might be worth noting:

---

Quote:

Y140... Iridani galleon, outfitted with cargo modules and a tiny crew with maximum supplies, flies around the rim of the Galaxy, entering the Alpha Octant in Tholian space near the end of Y142. Believing it to be a Seltorian scout, the Tholians attack and destroy it without warning.

---

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 10:53 am: Edit

The Tholians never knew who the aliens were (and if I had seen that in the Omega timeline I would have deleted it as total nonsense and absolute crap; so far as I'm concerned, it's an Olivette Roche story that NEVER HAPPENED).

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 11:18 am: Edit

I don't have everything Omega. Is there any more Tholian references I should be aware of.?

There's this and the Bolosco thing (which I believe I've handled adequately), but stuff keeps popping up somehow.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 04:18 pm: Edit

Just the thing from Y211 which had been said to be discarded, and that I had mentioned before - but since it's something that would most likely be removed from any future Omega timeline revision, you don't need to worry about it.


(I have the feeling that one day, I'm really going to have to ask for such a revision...)

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 04:30 pm: Edit

SVC
Why is the Iridani incursion such a problem? What can of worms does it open that we don't see?
regards
Stacy

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Better that you never see it.

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 07:33 pm: Edit

SVC
ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!
regards
Stacy

By James E Goodrich (Jegoodrich) on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 09:54 pm: Edit

Loren Knight -- Excellent Draco Tholians article. Its inspired me to work up and idea for a post-Unity RPG campaign that would involve exploring the different dwarf galaxies around the Milky Way.

Looking forward to the Tholian book whenever it comes out.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 10:16 pm: Edit

Thanks, hopefully you all will see a few more bit, such as a new ship or two come out of that. Thanks to SPP and SVC for their patience and hearing me out and working out the article. I saw that players wanted to see something fresh come around and I tried to figure a way to make it work. SVC saw some possability in the idea and told me to work something out. I also want to illustrate a failure to get through the energy barrier. Most attempts fail, I think, but we usually only hear of the successes, giving the impression the barrier is anything but a barrier.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. For a one page article, it took a lot of work (not just for me). You comment makes it all worth it!

By Sean O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:03 pm: Edit

Well, the "Big E" didn't make it all the way through the energy barrier in the episode Where No Man Has Gone Before IIRC.

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:06 pm: Edit

But it did in By Any Other Name and in In Truth Is There No Beauty - both ways. As well as the Enterprise in TNG - at least once - again both ways.
regards
Stacy

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 04:16 pm: Edit

I always assumed that the Big E had some sort of shield upgrade between the second pilot and the series episodes that enabled it to cross the barrier and survive, and also prevented the barrier energy from turning people into crazed psychopaths with telekenetic powers. Certainly the ship had been refitted between the pilots and the regular series shows...different nacelle caps, new bridge module, etc.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 07:04 pm: Edit

My assumption of the barrier is that it is chaotic, and different energies ebb and flow all over it, and that there are ways to mitigate the risk (more study and technology) but you never know what a particular area of the barrier will be like exactly.

By Paul Cordeiro (Ogoptimus) on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Gotta say I like the idea for scenarios/stories about hunting down caches of Seltorian eggs.

Is there going to be a full Order of Battle for the fleet that showed up in Y83?

Does one already exist?

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 02:18 pm: Edit

Wouldn't the Klingons be using the surviving Selts to try to unlock the secrets of Web Breaker technology so that (long-term) they can beat the Tholians?

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 03:03 pm: Edit

But why would any Seltorian sages left, if there were any, help them? They would be fully aware that a follow-up Seltorian fleet would be arriving, eventually, and that would do the job just as well.

By Jon Murdock (Xenocide) on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Long sessions in an agonizer booth?

More seriously, I don't think the Web Breaker would be that huge of a state secret. I am not sure why the Seltorians would be upset if the Klingons (or anyone else) got Web Breaker tech. It would be all but useless in fighting the Selts so they are not revealing an achille's heel and the gift helps people kill Tholians.

I don't think the Selts would particularly care who did it. In the long-term if the Seltorians are bent on galactic domination then this tidbit of tech is unlikely to stop them.

There is, admittedly, an escape clause. The surviving Selts may not know how to build them or the tech requires something not native to our galaxy to build and the Hive Ship held all the spares, etc.

If I were a Klingon I'd do what I could to get my hands on it. The advent of Web Casters to the Alpha octant makes Tholians scary and if they ever get their logistical arm together and a breather to build enough web caster armed ships they may be difficult to stop if they decide to attack their neighbors.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 03:46 pm: Edit

I'd have to say that the Klingons worked on it but hadn't mastered it by the time of Operation Unity.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 03:57 pm: Edit

I can't see any material not existing in both galaxies. Now, that material might be more rare in this one or even in this part of the galaxy but nature is what it is and I doubt any galaxy has something another doesn't (at leat full sized ones like M81 and MWG).

It's entirely possible there is no Selt that knows the complet process for build a web breaker. The risk of a Tholian capturing such an individual and discovering how to make web that resists the breker is too great, IMO.

In the big picture, everything hinges on the Web for Tholians, and likewise, everything hinges on the Web Breaker for the Seltorians. The difference is that it is probably far more likely that a Tholian could pull the secrets from a Seltorian than the other way around.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 06:33 pm: Edit

The SFU seems to support the interpretation that reverse engineering someone else's technology is not necessarily easy. The Klingons never did (at least within the time frame currently covered) get gatling phasers to function properly, despite the fact that they almost certainly had at least some captured samples to copy. The Tholians and Kzinti both captured/stole/reverse engineered disruptors and got the basic design down. But neither of them were able to get UIM to work until X-tech, long after the Klingons and Lyrans had UIM for their disruptors

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 12:17 am: Edit

Web breakers and shield crackers, even at half strength, could make an interesting Klingon X2 weapon, but what would the Tholians do for balance?