If that is the case I certainly understand that. For me, I can't imagin it being possible to "buy a ship deck plan I didn't want."

Seriously, a deck plan I DIDN'T want? Huh?

But then that happen all the time with the SFB ship modules, huh? Sheesh, I guess running a game company lets you in on all sorts of methods of complaining.

You certainly have my respect, Steve, for hanging in there all these years dispite stuff like that.

Hee, hee. Maybe you could sell it as one ship but advertise all the other ships are bonus ships! Kind of like, "Oh yes, this cookie is surgar free. We only charge for the other ingredients."

By Jeff Johnson (Jeffro) on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 01:39 pm: Edit

"One idea that came up in conversation was to take the existing deck plans (Burke, SkyHawk, Free Trader, Fed Express, whatever else we have done or can get somebody to do or finish) and print them in "larger than reference, but smaller than 1.5-inch wide corridor" scale. For example, the Free Trader might be printed with each deck taking up two 11x17s, so it would take five sheets to do the ship (three for the front half, two for the back half which has two decks)." -- Steve


Actually, this *does* sound good.

The Burke-class Frigate in Module Prime Alpha is not immediately useful to me-- it's just a schematic. But at the scale you're talking about, you could print out the maps, put them on a cork board, and then use pins to mark the locations of the PC's in an rpg. If you could steal existing artwork and or silhouettes to make small square counters to go with these-- even just generic ones-- then you'd have *me* doing the Snoopy Happy Dance. If it just-so-happened that the Star Fleet Assault counters would work on this, that would be fine, too. (Of course, I'm not sure what the size of those squares would be for each ship-- maybe too small to work with little square "Snapshot" style counters.)

If you do not provide scenarios with the product (and you have plenty of good reasons to not waste time on that, I imagine) then I'd like to at least leave open the possibility of including one in Captain's Log sometime.

If you release these as PDF... then I don't see why you couldn't include a simple overlay option to allow Loren to have his plans grid-free, Traveller and D20 players to have squares, and GURPS players to have hexes.

Ships I like for this: E4, POL, and Snipe... though I wouldn't turn down a DD or a War Eagle if that were at all in the realm of the possible. I'm probably smoking crack, though.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Loren, been there did that!

What I do is use a 11x17 clear plastic overlay with hexes or squarea or whatever drawn on it ... and use that in place of drawing lines on my masters.

It also helps protects the deckplan from greasy fingerprints and sneezed soda etc.

Those plastic sheets are available at most office supply stores, or you can just tape two together.

That way you can do an overlay for 25mm = 1" scale, 15mm, etc etc etc.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 07:17 pm: Edit

Inkjet printers can print on special clear plastic too.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 07:20 pm: Edit

During play I would simply get a White Board put a grid on it using fine point Sharpies, and then use dry erase pens to draw where ever the play was happening.
A clear sheet with a grid to scale of the deck plans would allow me to quickly draw accurate mock-ups for active play on the laid-flat white board.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 08:10 pm: Edit

The real question is, when ships get taken by The Masters, do the deck plates suddenly have hex or square grids on them? Do the crew even notice them if there are?

By Jeff Johnson (Jeffro) on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 08:33 pm: Edit

For purposes of comparison, here is the sales data for Traveller products on e23:

http://e23.sjgames.com/hot.cgi?lmt=20&company=&gsys=Traveller&gtype=&genre=&date1=2005-01-01&date2=2010-08-19&ord=qty

Note that the deck plans typically outsold adventures and other materials-- at least on e23.

The Loren Wiseman stuff is pretty spare in the Old School(tm) Traveller tradition. The MJD stuff has more fluff-- including descriptions of various crews and rpg encounters with them.

The old Traveller adventure Kinunir included rpg stats for the entire crew. (Mindboggling!) It also included four patron encounters that would allow the GM to use the deckplans in an adventure. Other adventures (Broadside, Leviathan, Safari Ship) featured deck plans, but they were just extra "data" for the Traveller universe as much as anything else.

Kinunir and Ashanti High Lightning are probably *the* classic deck plan oriented products from the Golden Age of rpg's:

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6282/azhanti-high-lightning

http://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/44418/the-kinunir

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 12:38 am: Edit

Having a crew manifest (like the article about the Officers of a D7, not character stats) and some supplies data would really kick up a deck plan pack.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 03:27 am: Edit

The Classic Traveller groups I was in, in the late 80's used Snapshot for deck-plans the most, as we played mercs with a Scout Courier and then merchants with a Far Trader.

By Jeff Johnson (Jeffro) on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 03:01 pm: Edit

Shawn,

I have to confess, I've been lobbying Steve essentially to produce some short of Snapshot game-- or at least the stuff to make it easy to use GURPS to run one.

Reviewing the use of deck plans in the Traveller/rpg products... not many players/publishers have that as a priority. I appear to be out in left field that way.

Oh...

On the topic of modular deck plans. I see you already have a bridge layout from the Fed FF in Module Prime Alpha. If that can be scaled up and overlayed with either grids or hexes (preferably both) that would be a great little product and/or bonus.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Jeff, just make yourself a clear plastic overlay sheet, with hexes or squares as you prefer, to the right scale.

You can then use grease pencils on THAT and wipe it off as needed. Leaving your original deckplans clean and intact!

By Jeff Johnson (Jeffro) on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Gary,

The only issue with that is... that the sort of gamers that I'm liable to get to play are pretty finicky when it comes to game components.

When fully painted Warhammer mini's are getting pushed around on the next table, my grognardy old grease pencils and overlays are liable to get sneered at.

I have the GT Dragon deck plan set. Maybe if I combine that with the G1 Gunboat set I can do what I think I want to do. In fact... I think it will work nicely enough. I can use the Traveller figures as clay pigeons for the Klingon warriors.

(The Cardboard Heroes(TM) will probably get laughed at, too, but... it's the sneering that really gets my goat. I can live with the laughing.)

;)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 04:28 pm: Edit

Those are two of the problems of gaming.

1. Most players don't want to "make it work" (e.g., use overlays). They want it done right the first time.

2. You can't beat plastic toys, and very few companies (single digits) can afford to produce them.

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 08:08 pm: Edit

Okay, which Captain's Log has the Klingon F-5 deck plan schematics?

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Haven't finished those yet, sorry.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 01:23 am: Edit

We eagerly await them, Nick. (and all the other ones you're doing. )

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 02:17 am: Edit

Oh, I thought on of the fairly recent CL's had them. Must have been the exterior views that is available as a aPDF here as a free download.

Eagerly looking forward to them when your ready Nick. I've got a new GM here rareing run some Klingon Players.

No pressure.

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 11:29 am: Edit

Well the boom section is essentially done, the main hull needs more work. I was not happy at all with how it was turning out and effectively started over on large portions of it. I have to finish that, and the Fed OCL. And the commercial platform. And the B10.

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 01:23 pm: Edit

One bite at a time Nick. That's how to eat an elephant.

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Saturday, March 17, 2012 - 11:43 am: Edit

I seem to recall a Travellers version of the Armed Priority Transport. Can someone point me to were its published at?

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Saturday, March 17, 2012 - 10:41 pm: Edit

I don't know of any. The G1 plans were done in a sort of GURPS traveller style, and the patrol/police skiffs and cutters are basically SFU versions of the GURPS traveller deckplans, perhaps you are thinking of those? I don't know of any published version of the APT in any format.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, March 18, 2012 - 02:07 am: Edit

I had started deck plans for the APT but didn't get very far. I may have posted the early outline to get feedback, so that may be what you're remembering.


Garth L. Getgen

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 06:31 pm: Edit

Jean, there was a deckplan discusion in new products that should probably get moved to here.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 07:05 pm: Edit

The "Classic" Traveller (T1) scale that I am aware of for deckplans was 15mm or half-inch squares that used counters or 15mm miniatures. FASA used 15mm squares with half-inch counters and their Star trek minis were 25mm tall with 15mm round bases so they would fit on the half-inch squares. They were very thin and would look puny compared with modern 25mm figures (too thin for elves) I have also seen larger versions for Mega-Traveller (T2) and Traveller the New Era (T4) in one inch scale 25mm squares equals 1.5 meters. One inch counters, cardboard heroes or 25-28mm scale one inch figures. GURPs Traveller uses one inch hexes so also one inch counters, cardboard heroes of 25-28mm miniatures.
SVC mentioned that current Traveller customers want 1.5 inch squares to 1.5 meter scale or 37mm. What company is doing deckplans in that scale and what 37mm miniatures are they using? What scale are the Mongoose Traveller deckplans and do they use squares or hexes with their combat system?

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Okay I was reading on the FC forum here: http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4316 and figured out the problem with my argument. I apologize to SVC for my ignorance. In my defense I don't own any SJG Traveller deckplans and I am currently separated from my copy of G1 deckplans. I see that SJG uses one inch hexes and one and a half inch squares for their deckplans. I assume the G1 deckplans were done the same. Okay the one inch hexes make sense, GURPS uses hexes and one inch is 25mm and there are tons of 25mm figures. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, what were they thinking using one and a half inch squares for the other side. There aren't any 37mm figures and I am pretty sure no one uses inch and a half square counters. Even I half to agree that that would be too big. The only reason that I can think of for doing it that way was the math was the same for the hexes, the ship was the same size and the laid a one inch hex grid over it and then did the other side with the same ship and a one and a half inch grid over it.