PROTOCOLS FOR DECK PLANS, Revised 25 August 2012
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone is welcome to suggest changes, additions, and deletions. NO ONE is to "take the liberty" of retyping the list and making their own changes. The ONLY complete copy of the list is to be the official one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The point, objective, and goal is to produce deck plans for use in RPGs, such as Traveller or GURPS. These have to be readable and reasonable. They have to avoid leaving players to ask about things we left out, but they don’t have to include every soap dish and cup holder. It’s reasonable to assume, for example, that somewhere in the food preparation area is a dishwashing system, but it’s not really necessary to do a lot more than draw a box and label it kitchen and perhaps rough in a few appliances.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
As it all things of the Star Fleet Universe, don’t assume anything, ask. Check what we did before, but don’t assume that what we did was perfect. If something doesn’t make sense, ask. Don’t every do a lot of work based on a guess that you didn’t ask us about. There are deck plans on numerous websites around the internet and you can find interesting things, but do check with us before you take something on some other publisher’s plans as definitely applying to the Star Fleet Universe.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To date, we have done the following
Federation Frigate, published in the Federation RPG book and CL27
Klingon G1, published in the Klingon RPG books and as a separate product and in CL27.
Klingon D7, based on the old Lincoln Enterprises plans, these are on the website.
Romulan SkyHawk, published in the Romulan RPG book and in CL31.
Free Trader, published in the core prime directive rulebooks
Federation Express, published in Captain’s Log #29
Tholian Patrol Corvette and Destroyer, Published in Captain’s Log #33
Tramp Steamer (which pretty much defines the small freighter) in the old PD1 material.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will see if I can get a few pages of these put onto the website so you can see what stuff looks like and how much space it takes.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm going to be using the services of, well, just about anybody who can actually perform the work, paying something like $100 for a destroyer and $150 for a cruiser. (If you want a job, email me.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
What keeps coming up is "What goes on the plans?" and I don't know. I mean, I can design a house (I've been in several and know that they have a garage, a kitchen, a laundry room, a dining room, a living room, a den, other entertaining spaces, bedrooms, bathrooms, closets, windows, and doors and an HVAC system.) I've never been on a starship and have no idea what is on one beyond the SSD. What I did below was to look at all of the plans we have done and make a list of features, so at least I'd know if a deck plan artist forgot the turbolift. Of course, some smaller ships do not need or have turbolifts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Start with the SSD, any published art, and the miniature (2400 or 2500). Those will go a long way.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
THINGS ON THE SSD
Batteries: These are huge power storage cells (think Energizer Bunny). See the sample plans for an idea of space.
Cargo: If the SSD has cargo boxes, figure 100 square meters of floor space each for a standard ship. You don’t need to worry about the cargo volume on bulk freighters as they’re already designed and a cargo box on a warship is not the same as a cargo box on a bulk freighter and neither is the same as a cargo box on a civilian ship.
control stations: These are specific compartments. Two SSD boxes is about the size of the bridge on TV. Remember that the Klingons have extra control rooms which are the secret police security stations.
Hull: this covers a multitude of non-critical spaces including crew quarters, offices, kitchen, etc. See below.
Impulse Engines: See the SSD, miniature, and existing deck plans.
Labs: These are generic SSD boxes that don’t necessarily correspond to a specific number of square feet of lab space.
probe launcher: these are specific one-to-one mounts.
Reactors: See the SSD and existing deck plans.
shuttle bay: This will include some spare shuttles, the number of which is buried in the game rules. Ask and we’ll tell you how many there are. The shuttle bay has to have room to turn a shuttle around, and room to land a shuttle from a visitor even if the shuttle bay has all of its assigned shuttles on board.
Tractor beam emitters: these are specific one-to-one mounts.
Transporters: these are specific one-to-one facilities.
Warp Engines: See the SSD, miniature, and existing deck plans.
Weapons: these are specific one-to-one mounts. Worse, each battery of weapons has a separate control room of gunners and technicians, two people per weapon.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASSORTED THINGS UNDER THE GENERAL CATEGORY OF "HULL"
Arboretum: some ships have one, most do not. Think about it. Feds might (on a bigger ship) have a small one. Maybe the felines do (scratching posts?) but the Klingons? NAH.
arms room: for the marines and those sailors now-and-then issued a weapon. Often near the gym so that troops drawing weapons have space to get organized. May have a small office for use as a Marine office.
Barbershop/Beauty shop: Never done one on plans published to date but there probably should be one. But remember, nobody spends two hours having their hair colored and styled. You just need a haircut once a month. So a one-chair shop is enough for a frigate/destroyer and two chairs for a cruiser. Each person (even furry ones such as Kzintis) can groom their own hair in their own quarters.
bowling alley: Not really needed.
brig: three or four cells, office, conference room, arms locker. Police ships, despite being small, may well have more cells, but they might be smaller as police ships don’t hold prisoners for long times (they drop them off at bases).
cargo storage: Some ships have "cargo boxes" on the SSD. This is different. General cargo (crew supplies, spare parts, and so forth). This needs to include air tanks and water storage. There is probably a separate medical supply storage compartment.
conference rooms: see other deck plans.
Corridors: As needed.
Dentist exam room: Only on dreadnoughts. On anything smaller, the doctor has to do the best he can to control the situation until you can get to a real dentist.
Engineering spaces: Somewhere by the impulse engines and maybe near the warp engines will be the "engine room" including the dilithium reaction chamber, which is not a warp core, that’s something in TNG. There will also be some kind of transformer or power switching room.
Fabrication shops: see other deck plans.
food storage: See cargo storage, but this needs to be separate and next to the kitchen.
Fuel storage: Look at the miniatures. Ships with big engines (Feds, Gorns) have the fuel and the ramscoop matter processors in the engines. Ships with tiny engines (Klingons, Lyrans, Kzintis)
gym: see other deck plans. Exercise equipment, locker rooms, showers. Remember that the gym is often used to handle large numbers of people on the ship temporarily (casualty evacuation), mass casualty situations, Marines gearing up for missions, and even parties. For these reasons, the gym is often near a transporter, sick bay, and marine compartment.
Kitchen: think commercial or high school kitchen.
Laundry: some kind of commercial laundry facility. Doesn’t take much space as it runs around the clock.
Machine shops: see other deck plans.
medical bay: see other deck plans. This has to account for trauma, surgery, and illness. On all but the largest ships, the doctor will handle any dental work that cannot wait. Normally, the sick bay is adjacent to something big (gym, mess hall) so that you can expand to handle mass casualties. There really isn’t a separate pharmacy on anything smaller than a dreadnought; a locked cabinet or locked closet will be about it. There really isn’t a separate morgue. Autopsies are handled in surgery and human remains are stored in some of the cargo compartments when required.
mess hall: See existing plans for general idea. Looks like any cafeteria. Often, the officers have a separate space. On big ships, the senior enlisted people (chief petty officers) have their own space. In some larger ships, there may be a small dining facility in an odd corner for crew convenience. (The Klingon D7 has a space for one in a cargo compartment so that people dirty from moving stuff around don’t have to clean up to eat.)
Munitions Storage (Drones, T-Bombs, etc.): The T-bombs need a path to a transporter and the drones need a path to the drone racks.
mustering and staging spaces: Basically just put the mess hall in the general area of the transporters and if large numbers of people are coming or going they can gather there.
Observation Room: Some ships might have one or more of these, depending on mission and level of comfort. They’re probably combined with a mess facility or gym.
offices: A few for the senior officers: Captain, First Officer, Doctor, Department Heads, Chief of the Boat
public rest rooms: near the dining hall and gym, see other deck plans.
Recreation: Depending on the level of comfort and size of the ship, there might be other recreation spaces besides the gym and theater. There probably isn’t a library since anyone can get any book from the ship’s computer on his datapad.
Recycling: see other deck plans. This replaces trash storage and trash compactors.
Ship’s store: theoretically any modern US Navy ship has a "quickie mart" where you can buy toothpaste, snacks, or whatever. Not really needed on SFU ships smaller than heavy cruisers or dreadnoughts, as the crewman just orders things through the computer which are delivered either by a supply clerk or a hard-wired transporter "dumb waiter".
shooting gallery: see other deck plans.
staterooms: crew quarters.
Swimming pool: The ship might or might not have one. Up to you.
theater: see other deck plans.
Wardroom: This is the officer’s dining room. See mess hall.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
THINGS NOT ON THE SSD
air locks to external docking ports: see other deck plans.
Communications equipment: A small compartment near the main sensor array. You can tuck a few log buoys in a small corner somewhere or not worry about it.
computer: see other deck plans. There is often one huge one and a smaller one for engineering.
Elevators: Smaller ships without turbolifts can have these. Rarely, a ship with a turbolift needs an elevator in a specific area.
Escape pods/lifeboats: We don’t always do those, but probably should, at least on comfortable humanitarian ships like Feds.
landing legs, ramps to ground: ships designed to land need these (ask us if yours is, most are not)
reaction thrusters: Noticeable on the smaller ships. The big ones have them but just mark out a space and label it.
sensor-scanner: see other deck plans.
Solar sail: sometimes there is a compartment for this by the front of the ship.
spiral staircases : Smaller ships without turbolifts can have these. Rarely, a ship with a turbolift needs an staircase in a specific area.
Turbolift system: Basically an elevator that runs in three dimensions. Not needed on smaller two-deck and three-deck ships.
vertical access (HVAC): Most of your heading, electricity, and water is going to run through the two feet of space between each deck, but you have to connect the ducts and pipes on each deck, so your ship needs some vertical shafts that allow those connections.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Items not needed on deck plans:
Shield generators (these are part of the hull).
Intruder Detection Systems
------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTES ON VARIOUS THINGS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CORRIDORS: Two meters wide is plenty.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
DECK HEIGHT: While it does not show on the plans, we assume that all ceilings are appropriate height (eight feet for humans and Klingons) and that there is a space above each deck (below the deck plates and structural members of the deck above) for electric, plumbing, and ventilation. Generally, I allocate three meters (ten feet) per deck, figuring that covers the room, the ceiling tile, the utility space, the structural beams, and the floor plates and tile/flooring of the deck above. Gorn/Kzinti need more height per deck, Hydrans less.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
DILITHIUM is not fuel. It’s a crystal used in energizing the fuel for warp travel. Fuel is deuterium slush.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
EMPIRE SPECIFIC NOTES: Well accumulate more of these over time. Feds have more space and comfort. Klingons tend to be crowded and spartan. Kzintis and Lyrans always have a few livestock animals on board for special dinners, but not entire herds. (They eat frozen steaks like the rest of us.) Tholians do indeed have the equivalent of a barber shop, which sharpens the worn edges of your crystalline body.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
FURNITURE: It can’t hurt to dress up the plans with desks, beds, and chairs, but these aren’t absolutely necessary.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAVY SPEAK: The Navy thinks in terms of DECKS (floors), ladders (STAIRS), overheads (CEILINGS), lockers (COMPARTMENTS), PORT (left, larboard), STARBOARD (right). For simplicity of consumer use, use the bold term in each case.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
POLICE SHIPS: Despite being smaller ships, these have to actually have more of some things (cargo storage, medical facilities), as they handle emergency situations.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RAMSCOOPS: yes, these are both TOS and TNG. As the ship travels along, its ramscoops gather in the few molecules of matter that there are in space (about one atom per cubic meter, or so scientists think, nobody really knows). Most of this is hydrogen which is processed for fuel. Some other things are (if needed) processed into the ship’s spare materials stockpiles.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REPLICATORS: Yes, they exist, but they’re expensive, and people don’t use them if they don’t have to. Most food is stored in cans and bottles and vacuum-sealed packages and cooked in a kitchen. It might well be sent to the dining table by way of a hard-wired transporter. Matter transformers (which rearrange existing atoms, not make new ones) do most of what’s left. Replicators are cool on television but in the real world you have a coffee maker not a replicator in your cabin.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REST ROOMS: This term is to be used as standard instead of water closet, facility, or bathroom. It’s just easier if we use one term on every plan.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
TURBOLIFT: Car is two meters wide. The shaft is about three meters wide, but that includes all thickness, guide rails, power cables, and so forth.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SERVER ROOMS: There aren’t any. Servers in the future are really small and you don’t notice the ones needed for the control spaces and transporters.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SIZE OF CREW QUARTERS: This varies widely; look at existing plans. Klingonships are the most crowded and least comfortable while Fed ships are the most comfortable and least crowded military ships. Quarters can range from a bootcamp barracks with bunk beds and wall lockers to small apartments with separate bedroom and living room. Restrooms might be individual or communal. Higher officers and chief petty officers would have more space and private rooms, while lower officers would have two to a space and lower enlisted might be four to a space.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WALL THICKNESS: Not a big issue that deserves agonized worry. You can probably assume non-pressurized walls (between two bedrooms for example) are about two inches thick to provide for privacy (sound proofing) and utilities. Pressure-resistant bulkheads (intended to survive the sudden decompression of one side) are maybe four inches thick. Armored bulkheads are thicker. But really, it’s not something to dwell on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Howard Bampton (Bampton) on Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 12:11 pm: Edit

Looks like some text got cut in the pasting process:

"Fuel storage: Look at the miniatures. Ships with big engines (Feds, Gorns) have the fuel and the ramscoop matter processors in the engines. Ships with tiny engines (Klingons, Lyrans, Kzintis) "

presumably "have it in the hull".

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 12:36 pm: Edit

That text wasn't cut in pasting, I just never finished typing that line. Must have been when the phone rang.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 01:07 pm: Edit

I had a few questions about how the ISC handle some of their member species' individual concerns; for the unified Navy and Police, at least. (Presumably the various old planetary ships were built with each particular set of quirks in mind; but the unified hulls would need to make a broader degree of accommodations.)


*Do ISC navy and police ships have "quad-bunks" to allow Veltressai Quad crewmen to use the same room, or are Quads double-bunked in adjacent compartments? (Close enough to allow them to use their mind-link when at rest, at least.)


*Presumably, any cabins used by Q'naabians aboard ship would have their internal atmospheres adjusted to match their native class-R environment. But how exactly would this work? If the corridors are at a class-M level, would the crewman have to step into the room, switch on some sort of adjustment controls, and let things go from there; or is there some sort of "airlock" in which the Q'naabian steps into, before going to and from his quarters?

And what kind of other rooms might be set aside as "cold cabins", for Q'naabians aboard ship to work and/or relax together in comfort? (And would they have airlocks to keep them a step apart from the class-M corridors, too?)


*While home-built Rovillian ships would presumably be built in accordance with that species' native aquatic (class-N) environment, they seem to have to spend a lot of time working with the "dry" ISC species on unified ships.

However, would their cabins have some sort of immersion tanks, or would they have to go without while aboard ship? (Or would there be larger immersion pools for Rovillian crewmembers to congregate when off-hours?)


*Would the various Local Defence ships in Module R8 be converted to handle their home planet's conditions, or would they retain the jack-of-all-trades configurations they operated when serving as the Y-era Navy and Police ships?

For example, would a YCA being converted into an LCA have its atmosphere fully adjusted to class-R, if it were assigned to the Q'naabian planetary guard? (And would the Rovillian planetary guard L-ships have their innards converted to the kind of standard the old home-built Rovillian ships would have featured?)

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 03:13 pm: Edit

Gary, I think most of those questions would have to be answered by the artist drafting the deck plans. Part of the fun (and headaches) is coming up with creative ways to resolve unusual design requirements. If you're unsure, I would say come up with a solution and e-mail SVC to ask if it makes sense from an engineering point of view.


Garth L. Getgen

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 05:15 pm: Edit

One of the problems I've always had is "how big is a ____ on a starship?" I drove my wife nuts as I ran around the house measuring everything in sight, to include the kitchen sink and even the fixtures in the bathroom. But alas, my house is "missing" some things that we saw on the Enterprise.

As SVC pointed out, published deck plans are a great help. Sometimes, you'll find conflicting data. I would chalk that up to the plans being set in different time frames.

For example, I took careful measurements of the shuttlecraft in the Franz Joseph Tech Manual and in the published FFG plans by Nick Blank.

The FJ shuttle is 762.5cm long by 470cm wide, and stands 255cm high. The FFG shuttle is smaller, at 660cm long by 410cm wide by 235cm high. It's not enough of a difference to redesign the shuttlebay, but it is noticeable (at least to someone like me with OCD). I have to presume that one was a much earlier model, and maybe built by Ford-Mazda instead of Porsche-Nissan.

I couldn't find any clip art for the Federation F-20 fighter, but I did find some for the F-18. Again, after taking careful measurements and making a couple basic assumptions (i.e., the cockpit canopy is one meter wide, matching moderns F-15/F-16/F-18 aircraft), I calculate the F-18 to be 850cm long from engine turkey feathers to nose pitot tube, and 525cm wide wing-tip to wing-tip. The clip art did not show landing gear, so I added some. The F-18 stands 200cm tall, or 162.5cm with gear up. ***NOTE: SVC has not "approved" those numbers yet!!!***

Now then, does that mean that ALL deck plans showing the F-18 fighter *M*U*S*T* use those dimensions? No. Perhaps I measured the A-model and those plans show the D-model. Perhaps I measured the one built at Starbase One and those plans show the one built at Starbase Seven. But I feel they should be reasonably close to that.


Garth L. Getgen

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 06:29 pm: Edit

I think your F18 numbers are close enough.

Heavy weapons have a crew of 2, not 5 to 8. However, for every "battery" there are one or two supervisors. Thus, a Klingon port phaser battery of 3 weapons has 9 people, and each disruptor pair has six.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Well, for the ISC, the thought I had was that they would probably not want to go too far into adding permanent modifications, at least not to the officer and crew quarters; there is no guarantee that the exact composition of member species (at appropriate ranks) would be present in order to use any given cabin in the same configuration indefinitely.

So, perhaps the Concordium engineers designed each room to have a pre-fabricated set of options that would be stored in different parts of the ship; then installed (and un-installed) as and when required.


For example, a "standard" officer's quarters would be such-and-such a size; I don't have a set of numbers to hand.

If the officer was a "regular" Veltressai, or a Korlivilar or Pronhoulite, the default configuration would be used; though perhaps with a climate adjustment to make each particular species feel that little more comfortable.

If the officer was a Q'naabian, the engineers would install a prefab module just behind the door, turning a small section of the room into a separate climate-adjustment chamber; and set the atmosphere and temperature of the rest of the room to class-R standards. So the Q'naabian would step in from the corridor, press a button to adjust the conditions in the chamber from Class-M to Class-R, and be able to remove his breathing apparatus when walking into his quarters. (If at a high war footing, he might have to forego this kind of luxury, if going back and forth through the "airlock" slows his response time in an emergency.)

If the room was given over to a Rovillian, the engineers would instead assemble a pre-fab immersion chamber (in place of a bed or bunk), in which the Rovillian could rest in his most comfortable environment.


Any larger rec rooms aboard ship could follow a similar pattern; depending on the particular distribution of member species aboard ship, such-and-such a room might be fitted with pre-fabricated modules allowing for them to suit the needs of one or other species in particular. (The Concordium would of course prefer to support inter-species mingling; so while the Rovillians might be encouraged to share a large immersion/swimming pool with their "dry" oxygen-breathing shipmates, the Q'naabians would be the only ones to benefit from a "cool room" to socialise in without the need of respirators.)


During peacetime, and through the end of the Pacification, the ISC would be rich and comfortable enough to afford an extensive set of pre-fabs, along with the luxury of using them; though the "war" classes built post-Y189 might be somewhat more spartan in their furnishings (but still with the basic needs of the five planets kept in mind).

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 07:10 pm: Edit

Besides Nick Blank, who else here has ever drafted up starship deck plans, even if not for SFB/PD ships?


Garth L. Getgen

By Dal Downing (3deez) on Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 10:42 pm: Edit

Years ago in Autocad 9. Used a charityware architecture add on we designed in class using LISP. Been years since I did anything more than pencil sketches.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 10:52 pm: Edit

I forgot to add: putting two double-bunks might be too restrictive for those involved; so spreading the Quad across two rooms might be a more viable fit. The mind-link has a range of 15 miles or thereabouts, so even a stellar fortress shouldn't be so big as to impede contact; but for the sake of practicality, it may be as well to keep them as close as possible.

I wonder, though; does the ISC legally treat the four Quad members as separate individuals, or as one citizen split into four parts? (And from a military perspective, does taking a Quad over a "regular" Veltressai mean not taking three other officers and/or crewmen aboard ship instead?)

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 02:16 am: Edit

Gary, see my post in the "prior discussions archive -- thru 14 July 2012" dated 7 July 05:50-AM. I think what you want is the Quad Stateroom setup. That's two bedrooms with two beds each, with a shared living room and lavatory. If the suite is assigned to non-Veltressai, then the two twin beds might be removed and replaced with a single wide-twin bed, converting the suite into a Dual Stateroom.

I think your other questions need to be asked in a different thread as they don't really pertain to deck plan drafting. There's no topic for ISC under "New Empire Books" (seems to be the most logical place for it), but you might ask Steve or Jean to start one.


Garth L. Getgen

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 04:51 am: Edit

I haven't done any starship deck plans in 20 years (I'm not RPG gaming much anymore), but I make my living as a professional aerospace drafter/designer.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 10:17 am: Edit

SVC -- my comments, i.e. two cents worth.

Re the Ship's Store ... In a ship with replicator technology, it becomes totally unnecessary.

Every ship I was ever on had a "secure" space/vault for classified documents and so forth. In a few PD games I ran, I made this the target of the a enemy Boarding Party. But keep in mind that while this functions similarly to a library, although specific officers & "cleared" enlisted may have a given document "in use" and it will not be in the Vault at the instant the BPs come A-Viking.

Example, the classified versions of Jane's Fighting Ships would be on the Main Bridge or Signal Bridge; ditto code-books would be in Comm Spaces, so messages can be encoded/decoded. Maintenance manuals of all sorts too would be spread all over the ship.

There at least WILL ALWAYS be a list of what documents ARE aboard. There is 100% always one specified person, in the USN, a Yeoman has the job of tracking every classified document aboard the ship. Security & military paranoia demand this.

The reason I know so much about this is that my friend Wayne, one of my original PD1 gametesters, was Classified Materials Custodian aboard USS MIDWAY for a year, and would give me the juicier details/gossip from time-to-time after we both got out.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 01:19 pm: Edit

Gary P., it depends on the era.

The Police Cutter has a YIS date of Y127, so I'm using modern equivalant technology for things like kitchen and laundry appliances. By the start of the General War, the food pantry and galley will be replaced with "food-goo" vats and automatic food processors. By the end of the War, replicator technology will be the norm.

The same thing applies to personal items in the Ship's Store. Pre-4PW, the ships needs one. Later, that space is used by raw material storage and automatic fabrication equipment, which is in-turn replaced by replicators.

Personally, I absolutely *H*A*T*E* the whole replicator idea. Combined with unlimited energy form anti-matter reactors, you can have anything and everything you ever need. So much so that there's no reason to explore and conquer space.


RE: classified documents -- reminds me of a war-story a friend of mine use to tell of an Ensign who did not simulate pulling the pin on the phospherous grenade to destroy the classified maps in the safe. He actually pulled it. The ship was fifty miles off the Viet-Nam coast at the time .....


Garth L. Getgen

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 02:57 pm: Edit

The replicator articles in the Prime Directive Core Rules explain things pretty well, and explain why replicators aren't a free wish machine.

On a starship a replicator require energy and that energy comes from finite resources (warp fuel). I think the bottom line is that replication requires more than just selecting a thing on a list and pushing a button. I don't doubt there is also considerable maintenance required. I'd guess that during the process of creating atoms from energy, or even rearanging atoms (breaking bonds and remaking bonds) generates a lot of non-useful stuff on the side (radiation, toxic slush) that has to also be dealt with.

I don't see food replication being pratical at all except in emergencies. In TOS, they had disks with menus on them. I'd suggest these were (and the PD articles say this) are really more like transporters with added features such as add water to freeze dried food stuff, mix, heat, cool, etc. This would require WAY less energy and a lot less maintenance.

Besides, how cool would it be if adventurers needed to get weapons to another group on a ship over run by the enemy. An enterprising young engineer says, "Look, the kitchen is accross the hall and the food replicators are really just a type of transporter. Give me a couple of minutes to work on it and I can get the weapons to the prisoners held in the mess... and you know, help them out of the mess they're in."

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 07:08 pm: Edit

It's noted that "expensive restaurants" have food replicators for times when a guest absolutely has to have dish X and it's not available. So food replication is not just for emergencies (if you have the money). However it's clear that energy in the SFU, while abundant, is NOT free. And replicators aren't perfect, there are "transcription errors" which could cause problems. What if your food replicator accidentally poisons you?? And how long does a replicator take anyway? "It'll take a week to get that part into stock, two weeks if we replicate it on site".

I don't think transporters and replicators are the same. They rely on similar science I'd say, but if you can turn a replicator into a transporter it opens a can of replicant worms.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 09:19 pm: Edit

On a starship, Terry.

I actually wrote a good deal of that PD article and SVC meshed in some stuff previously publish and corrected a few things I got wrong.

I think the term "replicator" is not always used technically correct. Technically, a replicator makes the atoms and forms molicules out of energy. It might go into quasi-replicator mode and use some raw feed stock. Food replicators use primarilly a non-palletable mash of stock that it can reform into tasty food dishes. This is more a transporter than replicator but they are all related.

So a food replicator has at one place on the ship some food mash fed into it (probably just takes it from a vat) where it then "transtates" it to energy where it is then rearanged to match the "replicator recipe". Then the matter stream is sent to the output terminal where the hungry crewman take his fesh meal to eat. It replicates food but is not a matter replicator but really a finely detailed reformer.

In emergencies, the feed stock could be created in a matter replicator and fed prematierialized to the Food Replicator. I doubt a resturant would have an actual Matter Replicator. Indeed, I'd suggest that actual Matter Replicators would require a special license and would not be commonly in civilian hands. Reformers would be much more common (and a lot cheaper).

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Sunday, August 26, 2012 - 11:48 pm: Edit

Ships safe for documents?

Nah, it's all on the computer. In crystalline storage media that can't be overwritten.

IIRC, in Mutiny on the Doomslayer they even make the point that the computer memories are the ultimate bounty, NOT the ship or crew...

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 12:15 am: Edit

There are couriers which physically deliver data chips and so on with super-sensitive data on them. There may be some kind of safe for that, to read that data you'd need to remove the chip from the safe, insert it into a reader and so on... you don't want people potentially hacking into that data from any terminal on the ship.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 12:49 am: Edit

Agreed. There will still be a need for hard-copy documents.

For example, in a story I was writing, the ship's commander was given classified orders with all the information he'd need for the mission. This was issue on a special flash paper that if torn or cut would release a chemical reaction to destroy the document.

So, yes, a safe would be needed. I figure a couple filing cabnet sized safes, a small one in the commander's office and a larger one in the yeoman's office, would be enough. But the ship would not need a whole room as a secure vault.


Garth L. Getgen

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 01:00 am: Edit

safes and filing cabinets are furnitures or fixtures and don't really need to be noted.

Of course, Level I deck plans have furniture and Level II don't. Level III may not even have individual walls, just the pressure bulkheads dividing the areas.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 01:56 am: Edit

Some question regarding the ship's computer.

Back in the 1960s, when ST:TOS first aired, a main-frame computer was the size of a small house. By the mid- to late-70s, they were still the size of an average living room. The part that took up the most space was the data tapes storage area. My first USAF assignment, our computer room had three main-frames and was about 2500 square feet, but the tape room has over 10,000 square feet.

By the early-90s, a CRAY super-computer was about the size of four large refrigerators. The cooling systems were larger than the computer itself. Data tapes had been replaced with a series of large hard drive, each about the size of a small washing machine (like you find in an apartment).

Ten years ago, our the mini-super computer was about the size of a kitchen stove, and hard drives held 1000 times the data for 1/1000 the space needed.

Most main-frame operations, however, have been replaced with server racks, each about the size of a refrigerator. Even the IBM Blue Gene super-computer is little more than scores of server racks all tied together for coordinated parallel calculations.

So, getting around to my question: what will a starship's "master library computer" look like two hundred years from now? Will we go full-circle back to one single huge computer? Or will we continue with the server-farm architecture? Or perhaps a combination of both, where one or two computers will be CRAY-size, and the rest will be server racks?

At this time, I have gone with the server-farm with ~sixty racks in the main room, and two dozen in the engineering computer room. I can, of course, change these out with fewer/larger computers, depending on the answers to the above questions.


And, no, I'm not trying to bring back the server room discussion. That made no sense to me the first go-around. If the yeoman team needs a separate server for personnel records, for example, it would be one small desktop-tower size system tucked under a desk. Ditto for sick bay and a server for medical records. The science lab might have need for maybe one or two server racks in the corner of the room, but that's it. I fail to see why we'd need a main-frame room and a separate server room.


Garth L. Getgen

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 02:07 am: Edit

Some thoughts on volume allocated to computers:
Most of the computer arrangements we've been discussing are fairly task-oriented (this mainframe/server-cluster does weather modeling, this other company's blade racks run an online storefront, etc.).

They are multi-purpose hardware, but the implementations tend to be fairly dedicated. This is especially true in their data-storage. Amazon has petabytes of information on the products they sell, their customers, etc. Wikipedia has the same, in articles. No one system holds it all, but we use a networked system (teh interwebs) to make it seem that way.

The original film source material shows that a major starship's computer is a very data-rich system, with the library containing a significant chunk of known knowledge. There is no network to draw from (due to the communication lag). The ship's data storage needs to hold everything they think they could need.

Even with 200 years advanced storage solutions, that much data will still take a notable amount of space. I would fully expect to see "computer rooms" in the size that Franz Joseph drew, if the ship is lugging around most of the Federation knowledgebase with it. 90% or more of that would be hard storage of just history, etc. If you're going to be able to pull up newspapers from the 1940s, you'd need some pretty amazing storage overhead for that to not seem like a complete "frill".

Gotta have something for those alien supercomputers and mad Earth-probes to go poking through.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 02:19 am: Edit

I wish I had photos of our server farm, but we're not allowed to bring cameras in there. I'm not even sure I'd be allowed to tell you how many racks there are or how much floor space there is. I can say that our public affairs website states that it's a "$277M strategic center computer complex, production network, and applications", but I don't know how much of that is the actual server racks and how much is all the other stuff. That might include the building itself, which is "only" valued at $26.7 million.


Garth L. Getgen