Ya, that's what I meant.

By Darren Kehrer (Kehrer1701) on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 11:05 am: Edit

Having a "starship combat/construction" book with GURPS PD would just save time for people who just want SFU stuff in one book instead of trying to compile it themselves from the generic book.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 01:08 pm: Edit

It isn't just starships. If one intends on running a chase through AlienCity, it can be helpful to know how fast aliencars are.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 01:28 am: Edit

Dwight and Nick: both of you have made references above to a spaceship design rules PDF available from SJ Games, either currently or in the near future.

Where did you hear about this?

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 04:11 am: Edit

Gary: See http://mail.sjgames.com/pipermail/e23-announce/2006-February/000147.html

By Dwight Lillibridge (Nostromo) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 08:27 am: Edit

Thats one place, I heard it from the forums as well. I also emailed asking about it.

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 06:32 pm: Edit

Steve Cole and Gary, On the Steve Jackson forums, there is a topic:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=7464

discussing the plan, the book will be vehicles descriptions, and a PDF download will have the construction rules.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 11:57 pm: Edit

We understand that now, and we're talking to the appropriate folks at SJ Games.

Thanks, Nick!

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 02:02 pm: Edit

QUESTION FOR Matthew Pulido (or anybody else)

Somewhere, sometime, you posted:
- - - - -
The Marine ranks in the Marine Officer description don't match those on the Rank Table. Matthew Pulido
- - - - -
I checked the chart on page 36 and the chart on page 132 and cannot find anything that does not match. Can Matthew or anyone else tell me what Matthew is talking about? Obviously he found something but I can't tell what and would like to fix it.

By Darren Kehrer (Kehrer1701) on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 07:01 pm: Edit

I notice on the copy I have of GPD, at the bottom of the first page, there is a line that says "minor" updates done and gives a page number.

Is there a location around here that lists the changes in a downloadable form?

Have any of the other gurps PD books had updates?

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 06:18 pm: Edit

It's likely that they all have received some updates. Using POD, I'm sure that it's fairly simple to update the main file and have updated versions printed the next day.

By Jonathan Watts (Meddlingmonk) on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 07:21 pm: Edit

I hope this is the right place for this post....

I'm a long term SFB fan, but have hardly ever played the game (I never was able to find a group to play with). I play GURPS regularly, and was just given GURPS Prime Directive as a birthday present. Someone over in the SJ Games forums asked for my opinion on it, and I though I would also post my reply here.

Keep in mind that it was written primarily from my perspective as a GURPS player, not as an SFB fan. If there is anything incorrect in my posting, please enlighten me, and I'll post a follow-up at SJ Games (I hope you'll take the criticism constructively):

---

Quote:

Stilleon asked for my opinion on GPD, so here it is.

Oddly enough, I was never much of a fan of ST:TOS (I really only became a fan with Wrath of Khan), but I've been a Star Fleet Battles (SFB) fan (albeit, hardly ever actually playing it!) for decades (as well as a GURPS fan), so GPD was an obvious acquisition for me.

I'm not much of a reviewer, but I do have the following to say about GPD 4th Ed.:

* Appearance: looks like a typical SFB product, rather than a GURPS product--softcover, b/w only (other than the cover, of course), in a sans-serif font with numbered rules (not really a positive or negative, just an observation).
* Price: at only $25, it's a reasonable price (for 200 pages) compared to $35 for a 240 page full color GURPS HC.
* Content: Gives all the basics you need to start a campaign in the Star Fleet Universe, including 40(!) races (but will probably want to add GURPS Klingons, GURPS Romulans, or GURPS Federation to have some useful setting info).
* Editing: here's where the ball was dropped a bit, at least compared to typical SJG books. The book appears to have been rushed a bit; while all the character creation stuff looks good (although I haven't checked the point totals for the templates), other sections of the rules don't appear to have been properly updated for the change from 3rd to 4th ed. For example, the Monocrys armor still lists the 3rd ed. rules for "flexible" (damage on every 6 rolled) instead of the 4th ed. rules (damage for every 5 cr/10 other), while the section on character advancement still states that it costs double points to improve a basic attribute in play. There is also the occasional missing sentence (some of the missing material has the potential to confuse anyone who doesn't also have the GURPS Basic Set).
* Clarity: the chapter on End Game Awards could be a bit confusing; it talks about rewarding Reputation, Seniority, & Bonus points, but doesn't make it clear that Reputation points are character points that can only be spent on the Reputation advantage (Professional or Heroic, as specified by GM), while Seniority points are completely separate from character points (and are used solely as a qualifier for promotion in grade, which also requires a minimum Reputation (Professional) rating and the purchase of the necessary levels of Rank). This information is all there, just not all in the one place.
* Support: I was very disappointed that I couldn't find a simple errata page for a product that's been out for 3 years (especially since the newer Prime Directive D20 does have it's own errata page, albeit rather hard to find)! I did eventually find some errata, but it's buried in various posts on 2 different fora at starfleetgames.com ("GURPS 4th Edition" & "PD After Action Reports").
* This one isn't ADB's fault, but the fact that the only system they provide for resolving space combat is 1 1/2 pages on using your character's skills to affect SFB die rolls is a bit disappointing. There wasn't much they could do about that; at the time of publication (2005), there was no GURPS space combat system for 4/e to use (in fact, there still isn't, as far as I know, unless there was one in GURPS Spaceships, which I haven't seen yet), and the GURPS 3/e space combat system (from GURPS Space 3/e) would have required major changes to be made compatible. Hopefully, this will be corrected with a future supplement.


While not necessarily a flaw in the book, I found it annoying that they didn't update their tech tree at all from the 3rd edition version; up through TL8 it essentially matches the old GURPS 3/e tech tree (with the addition of advanced sublight engines at TL8), while the SFB tech continues on up to TL16 (although the timeframe covered by the book doesn't go beyond TL14). Not a problem if you're using GPD on it's own, but could be a bit of pain to match TLs properly if you want to incorporate goodies from other GURPS material, such as Ultra-Tech 4/e. There's also the very minor issue that the extra TLs (17 total levels compared to 13 for GURPS 4/e) means that High/Low TL could be worth more points than it would be in straight GURPS. I probably wouldn't make such a big deal about this point if they had properly edited the section (it still says the chart is "...exactly the same as the standard GURPS tech level chart for TL0...through TL7.", which of course is no longer true).

One other troublesome note: GURPS Federation was originally scheduled for release in late 2005; it still hasn't been released! However, it looks like it probably will see the light of day later this year. I haven't kept up with the goings on at ADB, so I'm not sure of the reason for the long delay.

In summary, despite the flaws mentioned above, I think GURPS Prime Directive could be great fun for those who want to play GURPS in a Star Trek-inspired universe (or combine role-playing with Star Fleet Battles board-gaming).

---

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Hi Jonathan,

I appreciate you giving us such useful feedback. It will certainly be taken into account as we (The Prime Directive d20 Team) work on the d20 Modern version of Prime Directive.

I wanted to be able to report on what ADB, Inc. has done to make some things better. We've added links to the d20 errata, both on the d20 page and the website's A-Z Index. We've also made sure the d20 errata link was live.

Gary Plana is working hard on getting together errata for GURPS Prime Directive. When he completes his work (and it may take a bit), we will be getting that up as well.

As soon as we finish with PD20M, the Federation Sourcebook is next in line. Real Life sometimes interferes in the timeline of what we would like to accomplish and when, but we are moving forward now at a fairly steady pace.

I'm very excited about the future of Prime Directive!

Jean
PD Editor-in-Chief

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 04:30 pm: Edit

This is a note I posted elsewhere, but will re-post here for future reference.


On page 134, the Technology Level dates listed for the ISC are Y25 for TL9, Y60 for TL10, Y120 for TL11, Y168 for TL12 and Y182 for TL13.

However, going by the data in Module Y2, TL9 might be -Y175 (the era in which the five planets first developed Non-Tactical Warp), TL10 Y10 (when the Veltressai developed Tactical Warp drive) and TL11 Y81 (when the first Y-era starship entered service with the unified Inter-Stellar Concordium Navy).

Also, given that a range of TL12 ships entered service in Y160, I might suggest that this date, rather than Y168, be more appropriate for said entry.

By Marshall N. Bishop (Lordbishop) on Monday, April 25, 2011 - 07:06 pm: Edit

I am running a Free Salver game and I have noticed some issues with your Free Trader and it's variant overlays. First of all I noticed that the Free Salver overlay for the shuttle bay left the phaser three equipment intact. Which the ssd from sfb shows that the equipment was removed to make room for the HTS.

Secondly I noticed that the shuttle craft are not to scale according to the scale shown on the map. An admin shuttle, according to Basic Set, should be 10ms long. This is not the case however.

So I spent the better part of two hours making everything fit to make it more accurate. I have a final draft if you guys want to look at it. Though I believe my only copies are on minis scale which is 1'' per meter. If you do want to see it just tell me what type of file to save it under and what email address I should send it too.

While I am on the subject of maps I have a posted an inquiry on the systems activity station on the PD AFTER ACTION REPORTS: GURPS KLINGONS 4TH ADDITION. Pertaining to the systems activity maintenance station aka "Verlix Station".

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 01:19 pm: Edit

Marshall,

How long is the shuttle you're looking at? If it's the same one I found, I just measured it at ~7 meters long. Yes, SFB rule (J0.0) stated that "shuttlecraft are small (10 meter) spaceships ..." but I do not believe that they meant "exactly ten meters long", but rather that was an approximate "ten meters, give or take" type of definition. Also, who's to say all shuttlecraft are the same length? Perhaps they have Chevys while Star Fleet uses Fords.


Garth L. Getgen

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 02:16 pm: Edit

That was one of the first set of plans that I did. I have a better shuttle outline now than what I used then, (although I don't recall what size it is at the moment). Sure there are different models/makes of shuttles that amount to the same thing.

On the phaser thing, I would assume that the salvor would convert the phaser space to cargo space, and the cargo deck has the extra shuttle space. Don't take the SSDs too literally, the phaser room itself is not likely to be converted to a shuttlebay, it makes more sense to use the already right sized cargo deck. The phaser room itself is not tall enough (hull area divided into three decks) to house a shuttle, the cargo area (hull area divided into two decks) is taller and is better suited for additional shuttles.

That said, of course there were any number of different variants of the Free Trader type, make whatever you want for your game, I am glad you find them useful even if you are modifying them. The example in the book is just one of many in the galaxy, surely.

By Reid Hupach (Gwbison) on Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 04:57 pm: Edit

there are probably slight differences in ships and shuttles depending on who builds them.

By Marshall N. Bishop (Lordbishop) on Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 04:34 am: Edit

Nick I want to start off saying thank you for the work you put into the design and I am in no way trying to put you down. I can see the smaller version of the admin. The bigger problem was the HTS shuttle is not even ten meters long and is supposed to carry double the capacity of an admin. If you want I can send you a copy to look over and see what you think of my variant.

Thank you Nick for your support

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 06:09 am: Edit

Marshall,

Way waaay waaaaaay back in the Windows 3.1 days, I found a neat program called FloorPlan Plus (I use version 2 these days). I used it to draft up a shuttlecraft using the E-X-A-C-T dimensions from the Franz Joseph "Star Fleet Technical Manual". Here's what it looks like:

http://members.cox.net/garth.getgen/Shuttlecraft.gif

Yes, I drew the people, too. I did them just this past week. Someday, I'll re-draw the shuttlecraft using FPP ver 2 and shade it in.

At any rate, the Franz Joseph shuttles are 2.5 meters wall, by 4.7 meters wide by 7.65 meters long. Perhaps early years shuttles were a bit bigger .......

Oh, by the way, here's the second thing I ever drew with FPP:

http://members.cox.net/garth.getgen/TRUCK-2.GIF

Now, don't you all laugh too loud at that one.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 06:46 am: Edit

Marxhall, you've hit us at a busy time. I've got an RPG product with a Friday morning deadline, so at this point I cannot look into your complaints. Please remind me on Sunday. I may not be able to help as ships are not my "thing" and the base text of PD Klingons predates me, but I'll see what I can do.

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 12:31 pm: Edit

Well, the original shuttle from the show was 8.5 meters long according to the unofficial blueprints. The FT shuttle in GURPS was 6 meters, and the HTS was 8. So perhaps each a bit on the small side. I think that the HTS would gain more in width and/or height as opposed to length, but there are probably both types in existence, built for different specialties.

Of course, this all depends on how you measure the original shuttle mock up from the TV show, there were two, one for the inside and another for the outside. The original shuttle was actually a tardis, the inside set was somewhat bigger than the outside mockup! You could stand up on the set, but you couldn't stand up in the exterior mockup.

Some of these numbers are hard to pin down as there are many legitimate answers, and many different answers probably existed in the SFU, so any given player can use what they see fit for their campaign.

By Marshall N. Bishop (Lordbishop) on Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 10:31 pm: Edit

I also discovered an interesting section in Gurps Prime Directive 4th edition. According to the Civilian shuttle craft section. single space shuttle craft is 2x3 meters and a double is 3x4 meters. Your admin would fall under the triple size and would be too large for a starship.

Also there is no rush Jean, do what you need to do first.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 10:49 pm: Edit

That 2x3 thing is the INTERNAL volume that you can play with, not the external size including the engines.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 11:01 am: Edit

Marshall, I've checked with the Steves and the SSDs and the deck plans serve two different functions. The SSDs are a measurement of how much "destruction" the ship can take. A hold that is huge may have all that huge area destroyed in one hit. For some ships, cargo is what they are about, so they have cargo boxes. Does that mean a starship without cargo boxes can't haul "stuff"? No, but it might have to be squirreled away in odd places.

Deck plans are designed to show the layout of one ship and to suggest variations, not to show how vulnerable a ship might be to damage.

RPG lines produced by a company that has such a long history of ships and designs and with loyal and intensely interested gamers can have a serious issue of meeting a happy balance. Many RPGers would be happy with just the deck plans and not stress about the variants, because they don't play SFB or FC. We hope that the more particular players who do play SFB or FC will understand that we cannot overwhelm the casual RPG player with all the possibilities in the general rulebook. GURPS handles this with many different supplements. Without the size of staff of SJG, we have to beg our customers' indulgence and hope they understand that the Klingon Empire sourcebook is an introduction to all aspects of the Klingon Empire and the core rulebook is even more general.

In library terms, we have at least five different levels to explore. The first is like the Encylopaedia Britannica. It's very broad and covers a lot of territory. You'll find just enough information to be dangerous. The second level is like an encyclopedia of music. It covers music and musicians in more depth, but there's going to be a finite amount of information on any one piece of music, style of composition, or composer. The next would be like a handbook on Handel. You'll find out lots on Handel and his compositions, but you won't find out every piece of esoterica on The Messiah. Then you get down to works (books or dissertations) that are only on a particular aspect of the man or his works. Perhaps the work studies The Messiah and the various stages and styles of performance through the years. Finally, you get down to "article" level with a very specific, focused look. Perhaps it studies the performances under one director and different groups.

Each of those products slowly loses buyers due to the narrowing of the focus. As a successful business, we have to meet a happy medium in keeping customer interest and making enough to pay the bills. That may mean that we never cover a particular ship in depth, with all of its variants and all of the decks drawn in for all of those variants. Unfortunately, we cannot take the time to create a product that would (in five years) provide the answers to one inquiry. Jean's rule of thumb is that for one person asking, there are ten people thinking it. Ten people buying a deck plan won't pay for SVC's time to create it, Petrick's time to make sure it works with the SSD, my time to proofread it, and the price of distributing it -- not unless we charged a small fortune for it and then our 10 people would drop to one and he'd drop out if we had to charge the 10x price.

Does that help you understand where we're coming from?