I was watching pretty closely an I looked clearly like a tazer with leades on either side of the barral. She Tazed him.

This sort of thing would be ultra-simple tech for a future weapon. Perhaps her weapon didn't have a stun setting for the phaser beam. THe shape of the weapon was used much like a police baton so perhaps it is designed to be used as that sort of weapon, being more akin to a Baton with a tazer and phaser built in.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 06:52 pm: Edit

I called it a bayonet as it was used like one; she definitely drove the muzzle end of her weapon into his chest.

Whether the "bayonet" is a sharp pointy thing is debatable, especially in light of "our" SFU Federation having a preference for non-lethal combat. Killing attack versus a stun attack is debateable, if I were a marine I'd prefer to have the option of selectable use.

By Robert Snook (Verdick) on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 08:05 pm: Edit

I was thinking of something similar, Gary. Something akin to a vibroblade with a sheath. With the blade in the sheath, it acts like a stun weapon. Extend the blade (or have it flip out, screw on, or something) and it acts like a vibroblade. Give them the option of lethal or non lethal.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 08:52 pm: Edit

SVC:


If the crew of a PF spend their entire time strapped into a Grav' Couch.

How do the BPs opperate as BPs...that is how do they move around?


Do they were some kind of powered interia resistant armour or are they robots or what?


I'm just thinking if that escape from New York/Planet of the Apes Paint By Number Adventure were to be written one would need to deal with the BPs as well as the crew ( alought I guess they could all be killed...perhaps H&R was part of the reason the PF crashed.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 09:12 am: Edit

They don't spend their whole time strapped in grav couches, but like being on an airliner, that's the safest place to be and you should be there if you're not doing anything else. Anybody who has to get up and move around to do his job does that.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 11:57 am: Edit

Understood.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 10:57 pm: Edit

Actually...

The Feds don't use PFs, so I'ld have to use an F-111 crew and then the BP problem solves it'self.

By Daniel Knudtson Thompson (Brezgonne) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 02:52 am: Edit

I'm not quite sure if this is the correct topic...

I understand that GPD has a good many tech level differances from default GURPS. I also know I usually ask things in a way other than how I ment to so bear with me a bit fi you could. I also don't claim to have a 100% grasp of the rules yet.

My question is in regards to armor types. Of the 4 types listed in GPD, only one doesn't weigh a large amount. This means, pretty much, that any character wearing even the light version will almost certainly slow down. The only real option for any character that wants to keep speed up is to use the combat uniform (basicly monocrys).

The problem with doing that is it's fairly useless agasint the majority of energy weapon attacks since it is DR2 vs impaling damage.

I reconize that there probably wasn't room for more advanced combat armor at the time but some of the better armor's from the Ultra Tech book seem like reasonable advances on what looks like is already in play.

Energy Cloth for monocrys is the example I'm thinking of right now. It's lightweight, damage resistant but AFAIK, unsealed. In GURPS at least it is a TL11 material.

A second option I can think of is to have the 3 combat armors have the option of NOT being sealed with their own air supply. In my mind that is what is taking up a considerable amount of weight in the various suits (All the valves, breathing equipment, and air tank).

I dunno. I'm just looking for options other than the very heavy 3 combat armors that actually WORKS agasint weapons at least to a degree.

Another option could be to modify the energy cloth so it has half the DR. That would still provide better protection than the combat uniform but not surpass the lt. combat armor (baring modifications)

Comments? I know I'm probably totally whacked but hey, if I don't ask I won't know.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 03:49 am: Edit

No, I can see what you're asking. It makes sense, mostly.

I could live with your second option; this would cut the weight by 1/2 or so. The helmets would still be full weight, as there isn't much of a weight savings there -- ask any motorcycle rider.

By Daniel Knudtson Thompson (Brezgonne) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 01:02 pm: Edit

to me it makes sense to use the armor types that are near the same tech level as the weapons they are trying to protect against.

The armor, as is, seems fairly inadaquate for the task of defending agasint disrutors that can do 20-120 damage or phasers that can do 60-360.

I mean realisticly the only effective defense is not getting hit. Which, since the armor types weigh a considerable amount, becomes less likely because they will reduce a players move and dodge due to weight.

I'm using energy cloth as an example again because it is listed as a simple evolution of the TL8 monocrys material. If you want to suggest another meterial I'm all for it. This one just looks easier to implement.

Like monocrys it is lightweight. The default DR is 50. 50 is probably a tad high if you don't want the bulkier combat armors to become useless.

cutting it down to 25 seems like a fair solution as it puts it squarly in the middle between the combat uniform and the Light Combat Armor. Even using the custom armor rules the highest DR it gets is 38. Still shy of the LT. Combat armor and still un-sealed.

I dunno....I just think that saying the only armor types available are the 4 in the book seems a bit unrealistic considering the sheer number of planets, races, and tech levesl spread across space.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 02:33 pm: Edit

I would think that in Trek there would be personal shields of varying power. None would be active all the time but would be turned on when danger is clear (like once combat begins). Some advanced units might have a high energy proximity sensor that would turn on automatically (would be a setting called Auto). It would turn on the shield in case of a suprise attack. If a sniper scored a hit on the first shot I would say the shield would have a one in six chance of reacting fast enough to raise the shield in time to absorb the shot. Other wise the shields of the team would all be active the next round.

The power to maintain a personal shield would be a lot and a good power pack would keep it active for about 5 minutes of continuous use. So, normally you would leave the shield on. It sould be possible to recharge the power pack from several sources including a jury rigged phaser pack.

A personal shields should be able to absorb a few hand phasers shots and one or two phaser rifle shots. A shot from a very large weapon like on a Combat Vehicle should down the shield and kill the target.

A persoal shield would be effective against proximity to flames for a couple minutes (probably the duration of the power pack). Breathable air is another matter.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 04:54 pm: Edit

In GURPS most of the SF settings, or even modern, your best bet is to not get hit, it's the way the base system works.

ADM

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 02:42 am: Edit

When I was running my GPD game, I had a hell of a time balancing the combat. With those DRs, it was a challenge to find weapons that would scare my players rather than obliterate them, especially with energy weapons adding together damage from multiple "rounds" adding together for damage. That meant disruptors listed in the GPD book were straight out.

My best compromise was Gauss weapons, listed in GURPS Ultra Tech. The armor divisor meant that it didn't have to do incredible damage to penetrate armor and there were enough variants that I probably could find a Gauss weapon to scare characters dressed in any of the armors listed in the GPD book.

By Daniel Knudtson Thompson (Brezgonne) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 04:12 am: Edit

FDW: Eh? disruptoers don't add their damage together from multiple shots. Only phasers (in GPD at least) do that extreamly nasty trick.

Gauss weapons are neat on their own though. My current character has a cute little "antique". Nice little Gauss Gatling Needler. Not terribly useful for actually HURTING armored targets (only does 4d[2]) but rather nice for convincing them to keep their heads down (has a 100 RoF :D ).

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 01:23 pm: Edit

Actually, that little jobby does neatly against the light combat armor in GPD. Not every shot will penetrate DR and those that do probably won't do a whole lot of damage, but there sure are a lot of rounds in that burst. That's what I mean by scaring my players.

I am corrected on the disruptors adding thingy. But the damage on that sucker is still enough to scare me.

By Ken Humpherys (Pmthecat) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 02:17 pm: Edit

If I understand the weapon desciptions, Disruptors are pulse weapons and do not add the the shots together. Phasers are beam weapons and can add shots together if they hold the beam continuosly on one hit location. This means that the tumble roll seen so often in TOS actually makes sense as it prevents a continious beam from striking one portion of the body and therefore breaks up the shot into the individual shots listed on the table.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 04:20 pm: Edit

Disruptors are nasty. Unarmored redshirts die like flies. This is why our Star Fleet has marines, and why the Marines wear armor.

Unarmored people have NO business being in a firefight. This is a basic truth of warfare in TOS, in our Star Fleet, or in the real world.

By Steven E. Ehrbar (See) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 08:12 pm: Edit

Ken --

"Hit location" in GURPS means roughly "body part targetted"; there are a number of defined hit locations in the Advanced Combat rules. It does not mean "precise position on the target's body". Tumble rolling, or any other maneuver on the part of the target, does not break up the stacking under the phaser auto-fire rules.

Example:

If Marine Able fires a group of eight kill-5 (10d+4) shots from his repeating phaser at the same hit location (say, #9, torso) of Klingon Kaker, and three of them "hit" Kaker, then Kaker gets one Dodge+PD roll. If Kaker succeeds, he takes no damage. If Kaker fails, he takes a single 30d+12 hit.

Now, Marine Charlie has a different approach. He fires his first four-shot burst at Kaker's hand (hit location 7), and the second burst at Kaker's head (hit location 5). On the hand attack, two of Charlie's burst shots hit, while on the head one of Charlie's burst hit. Kaker rolls to Dodge individually against each burst, succeding and failing independently. If Kaker fails both dodge rolls, he'll take one 20d+8 hit to his hand and one 10d+4 hit to his head.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 08:44 pm: Edit

Will there be ( although I fear this may be part of MPA ) a Marines organisational and structural section.

I'm mildly curious to know if a PLATOON of Federation marines is 4 BPs or 5, and if Platton are 4 BPs and one HWS or if HWSs form together to form their own plattoons.

Also how many Plattons make a company in Federation and other SFU Empires and how many companys for a battalion and how many battlions form a division and how many divisions form a corps?
Aswell as whether or not other Empires use all those increments of structure or if they use more or fewer.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 04:45 am: Edit

Fed marine structure was spelled out in the old PD1 Fed Sourcebook on pages 71-72. It may get changed, but ...

A Squad is 5 marines; Team Sgt (E5) as leader, a Corporal (E4) as his assistant, a heavy weapons PFC (E2), and two privates (E1).

A Platoon is 18 marines; three squads plus: a 2nd (or 1st) LT as Platoon Leader (O1 or O2), a Staff Sgt E6 (or First Sgt) as platoon sergeant, a medic (PFC or corporal) who is attached from higher HQ -- the ship if based on a ship.

A Company is 64 troops, including three "rifle" platoons (as above), and: a HW squad consisting of a Team Sgt, two Corporal-gunners with rockets/mortars, and two privates as ammo carriers; a HQ unit consisting of a Captain (O3) as CO, 1st LT as XO, Master Sgt (E8) (or 1st Sgt), a tech sgt as unit armorer, and a corporal for communications.

Vary rarely, a Company may have a scout/commando section consisting of one or two 5-man squads.

(Actually, this almost certainly will change as some of those PD1 ranks are not in GPD.)

Note that these units are based on groups of five men, one 5-man team = one SFB Boarding Party.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 11:18 am: Edit

Much of this (above the squad level) is shown in Module M/R6.

By Robert Herneson (Rherneson) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 04:13 pm: Edit

Steve needs to take some time and address this & most likly will when a product requires it.
Ideas, proposals, and opinions have flown around and around, but Steve seems to have a particular vision about Starfleet 'ground' forces (including shipboard troops, support units, so on and so on...) so SVC will be the only one who can really develop this aspect.

RH

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 05:46 pm: Edit

Address what?

By Robert Herneson (Rherneson) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 06:35 pm: Edit

Starfleet combat personnel. Your vision of them has shown to differ from what most of us have. In the SFU red shirts are marines, marines are not combat aviators, so on and so on. (I'm not whining, just listing.)
As you have a vision of how the troop organization is in the SFU, you will have to be the one to detail it out. (As I said, probably will when a product requires it.)
Things like are the marines a separate service, a separate branch of Starfleet, or a separate division in Starfleet. You've mentioned that all security forces are marines, does that make Primes as a part of the marine forces or are Primes not considered 'combat' troops?
Do they answer or have jurisdiction at all in the operations developed by the Colonial Operations section, a part of Starfleet? (I suspect there is also a civilian agency of a similar name, too.)
Do they get 'loaned' to the police or do the police have their own 'combat' troops? How do they interact, what about when police ships are 'drafted'?
Who flies attack fighters for the Marines if the Marines don't? If it is Starfleet personnel, are they 'loaned' to the marines or are they considered navel personnel or 'combat' troops?

I know all that is kinda silly, and they are not burning questions, I only intended them as examples, but they are the kind of thing that role players & GMs will want to know. Some of us have hazarded guesses and gave opinions, but as the SFU is your vision, at the time you choose, you are the only one who will be able to properly define these kinds of things in order to get it right

RH

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 06:45 pm: Edit

Actually, all of that has been answered in SFB before.

The organization given a few messages above is the one I published long ago. Hasn't changed.

Marines are marines. Like the US marines, they are part of the navy AND a separate service under the navy department.

Primes are primes. Some of these guys are marines and some are naval and some are national guard and some are civilians. They're under the prime team department.

Colonial administration is the civilian government. What this does and doesn't have to do with marines is beyond my grasp. Marines, being part of the military, aren't part of colonial administration although in some cases a colony might be loaned some marines to provide short-term security until the threat goes away or a national guard unit can be organized. Police have their own tactical units which are not marines. I don't know of any "attack fighters" in the SFU. Fighters are flown by naval officers or national guard officers depending on whether it is a fleet or guard unit.