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Not really. GFed is pretty much laid out. I've gotten a dozen "articles" for it (how star fleet academy works. How merchant ship hull registration works. several on how federation elections and the council work.) and I have a fundamental problem with them.

These articles, being independently written, often contradict or don't fit with each other since each writer has his own view (and more than a few have their own agenda). That requires major rewrites and tedious edits when it would have been easier for me to just do it from a blank sheet of paper.

As we've already seen, I have some fairly firm ideas of the history and I'm having a lot of trouble understanding why I should have to do twice as much work rewriting somebody else's article.

Now, there have been some fairly chunky bits written by outsiders, but these usually fall into two categories.

1. really big things (Sickels and Gurps romulans) where one firm hand (just doesn't happen to be mine) makes sure stuff forms an integrated whole.

2. Small, off to the side, things like shuttles by Gary Plana and civilian transport by David Lang, articles that build on things already done but go into areas where I haven't mapped anything out.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Just out of Curiosity, I've been toying around with the idea for a while now, that BPs could act as units inside GPD rather than being broken down into individuals, thus making battles faster and simpler to resolve.

That being said is there anywhere where it ought go or should I just submit it when I'm finished?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 07:52 am: Edit

GURPS doesn't work that way.

By Troy J. Latta (Saaur) on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 08:07 am: Edit

It can... Some of the historical sourcebooks (in 3e, anyway, I haven't bothered to pick up 4 yet, since no one in Denver plays the darn thing) had a large unit abstract combat system. Could probably be adapted for small unit combat instead of individuals, but at that point you may as well use the rules from Moudle M.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 08:45 am: Edit

In the GPD game Matt Francois is running online we have used the GURPS Mass Combat sytem and it has worked quite well. Since Matt is the GM I'll let him disscuss it.

adm

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 10:51 am: Edit

If G4 has such a system, use it; we don't need another one. I was thinking, however, that Matthew's system was one of his own design.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 12:59 am: Edit

There was a mass combat system for GURPS that was printed in several worldbooks until it finally made it into Compendium 2. Although G4 incorporates most of what appeared in the Compendiums, the mass combat system didn't make it. What I've heard it that it wasn't high enough on anyone's list to update and include in the main rules. It might get updated in a later book, but since G4 is supposed to be "everything you need in 2 books," they'll probably fight the urge to include it in a worldbook as much as possible.

If SJG will let you, you might want to update and adapt it for GPD/SFU.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 06:20 am: Edit

I'm not sure the mass combat system gells well with BPs and Module M ( as I'm trying to do ) but I'll pass it along to Gary Plana when I finish it...if I ever finish it.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 03:40 pm: Edit

I'll look at it, but I'm not a real big fan of mass combat systems in role-playing games.

Keep in mind, though, that one thing it has got to do REALLY WELL is work with boarding parties, because in our system, BPs are the core non-PC combat unit.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with just telling the GM to abstract mass combat? I can't think of anything more boring than watching someone else roll a bunch of dice to determine an outcome that I can't affect and am not directly involved in.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 05:56 pm: Edit

I think there needs to be a system but for now a very simple system should fill the need or just adstract. In SFB Module P6 there was a ground combat system that I think would work when modified to it's final design. SVC has said he wants to do this someday but there are many things in line ahead of it.

However, perhaps it is time to reconsider. On the list of possible future GPD projects is a GURPS Ground Vehicles publication. This would be the perfect place to publish such a system. And BTW it would be cool IF the system could be used independantly as sort of it's own game. Players could then create GURPS charaters intended for use in a single combat game.

Imagine, you have a great battle taking place around the Campaign characters. As an aside game the various players could generate characters in command of this great battle and have it played out in paralell to the campaign.

Or they could be given a bunch of points to roll up their own temp. characters for a single nights assault on a ground base game. Not an on going campaign but something simple that can be resolved in a single night.

Most RPG's are based on long on-going campaigns but the single adventure can be a great deal of fun. Especially for those who use to play RPG's but don't have time to play regularly on going campaigns.

See P6's Ground Combat module and think about running it with GPD characters for a single evenings fun.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 08:24 pm: Edit

COMPENDIUM II has a mass combat system. I've never read that section (much less examined it in detail) so I don't have an opinion. But someone at SJ Games must have liked it enough to publish it.

The only time I've seen a mass combat system in use was in a D&D campaign where the PC party was effectively a Spec Ops unit attached to a medieval army. The GM used the system between sessions to figure out what had happened to the main army.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 10:22 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

Keep in mind, though, that one thing it has got to do REALLY WELL is work with boarding parties, because in our system, BPs are the core non-PC combat unit.

---

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 02:05 am: Edit

Gary: Some groups may need to emulate T.E. Lawrence or Ron Tracy. Also fun to actually use Strategy skills instead of just relying on the direct combat skills.

A boarding party would give about 255 Troop Strength. (Medium Equipment is 4; medium combat armor adds 31; phaser rifle is 12; and the squad level weapons can probably be equated to artillery for an extra 20 [like in GT:Star Mercs].) By way of comparison, the average World War soldier is rated as providing a Troop Strength of 9 so the SFU BP can just about match up against an entire WWI platoon.

Since the GURPS mass combat system generates casualties as a percentage of total force strength, some rule to translate percentages that indicate part of a BP was killed into an equivalent SFB effect would be necessary.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 09:20 pm: Edit

I was just looking at my old copy of GPD and the Gorns have no above average HT.
Is this correct? Is it going to stay in GPD4e???

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 12:03 am: Edit

This time around, the Gorns have SM+1. That should cover it nicely.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 12:14 am: Edit

Richard: off the top of my head, that sounds about right.

My problem is this: I have no advance knowledge of what the mass combat rules for G4e will bring, but I expect there will be some changes.

Until we see something in print from SJ Games, there's not a lot we can do. We're caught between editions again.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 08:57 am: Edit

I asked SJ to tell me about his plans for the old mass combat system and did not get any answer.

By William F. Hostman (Aramis) on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 03:35 pm: Edit

Just as an aside, having done mass combat in GURPS (years ago) using an adaptation of the MegaTraveller rules,here's a way to fudge it fairly easily:

a 5 man unit:
average relevant combat skills.
use lowest move and Fatigue
Average Armor
average damage for the line weapon. (usually Ph II or Ph III)
uses a 7-hex (round) counter; melee range is overlapping another.
Total HP (and use HP for breakpoints), but average Health, St, Dx, IQ.
Figure line multiple: 3-4 men is x2, 5 men is x3

When hit by non-units, take damage normally.
When hit by units, multiply damage after armor by the line multiple of the firing unit.

a unit which fires fires it's heavy weapons once and it's line weapons once.

Measure all fire from center hex of counter.

It works all right, and keeps things in scale; hadn't thought about it since before G3R.... And yes, if you like it, SVC, you may have it, tweak it, publish it, etc.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 07:33 pm: Edit

Getting back to the Alpha Centaurans for a moment, if I may.

I had a chance to see the F&E LSM today. Unless that map was a one-off, it would appear that Alpha Centauri IS on the map. It is included in the Earth set.

So it would appear we don't need to come up with a reason they are not on the map after all.

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 11:01 pm: Edit

Yup, it is part of the "Earth" system on the board, Earth (major), Luna (minor), Mars (major), Alpha Centauri (minor).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 04:06 pm: Edit

I am going to close this one to move the messages to the new multi-system topic folder.