Richard, to second Loren's comments many of us have discussed the issue with SVC, putting forth our arguments and suggestions for how this piracy could be prevented (including things like watermarking each PDF with the purchasers name so if they give it out we would know who the crook was)

at this point SVC is not buying our arguments, he is seeing the napster example as being the current definitive example.

he also has the very valid point that for ADB to go this route would be very close to betting the company on the outcome, if we are right it's a good bet and ADB would sell things that they wouldn't otherwise, however if we are wrong enough ADB could die as a result (note that this is not just the theft of the products, but the fact that those products took so much design time to produce). and while we may think the bet is safe enough to risk it, it is after all his company and he isn't willing to make that bet.

By Richard Biggs (Richinq) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 09:23 pm: Edit

Lauren & David,

I would agree it is not worth risking the company and the future of star fleet battles if it could not be done to prevent piracy.

I look forward to buying the plans what ever format they are produced in.

The main Races I would like to see are Kzinti and ISC.

Many thanks for you replies to my post

Rich.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 02:59 am: Edit

Richard: I'd like to see a complete set of deckplans for every class of ship, too! The problem is that it takes a lot of time to do them, and there are only a few people who can make them for ADB.

By David Hnytka (Leopardmadcat) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 02:32 am: Edit

Howdy. y'all. I have a question about subitals of deck plans. I am currently working on a set of deck plans for an Orion Light Raider and was wondering if it is possible to submit it for general usage to anyone interested on the net.

The only problem is I use the same legend symbology as created on Strategic Designs Deck Plans of the Enterprise. While I don't think this is a problem (as I am doing this out of simple insanity and not for money), I don't want to step on anyone's toes out there...

Any feedback would be appreciated.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 04:51 am: Edit

David H, in general you can't just post it for general use (see the ADB policy on such things) however ADB is looking for deckplans to publish so send an e-mail to Steve Cole at design@starfleetgames.com

you may also want to read through the deckplans topic here to see the issues with different file formats for submission.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 06:27 am: Edit

David Hnytka: Also, make sure you look at what Nick Blank drafted up for GURPS ... he did the Free Trader, Fed FF and G-1 Gunboat plans.

As David Lang said, you can't use the Orion LR as a "general usage" ship ... copyrights and all. But if you've already done some non-SFB ship plans and have them posted, show us the URL.

I plan to e-mail you off-line tonight ... if I forget, pop one to me.

Garth L. Getgen

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 10:10 am: Edit

David H: since we own and created the Orion LR, you can't post drawings of it except as submissions to ADB Inc. and I'm not entirely sure our policy covers "pure art". We might publish such things and pay money for them, but you couldn't use the symbology of another company, and would really need to craft them in a drafting program we can work with since we might have to make last second corrections.

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 04:56 pm: Edit

SVC, your last post leaves begging the question: Which drafting programs can you guys work with?

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 05:26 pm: Edit

SVC: "but you couldn't use the symbology of another company" .... not sure I follow what you mean here. Yes, I know that you have "standardized" symbols that you'd like to use for SFB/GPD products, but it shouldn't be a copyright issue, by and large. Most CAD programs come with symbols that are free-use: even if copyright, they allow royality-free publishing rights (as long as it's in a format that doesn't allow another user to "borrow" the symbols and import into their CAD program).

~~~~

Patrick,

Check up-topic, but I think they found "SmartDraw" files are compatable with SVC's MAC computer. Nick Blank seems to have become rather adept with it, but I've never got good enough with it to make it do what I want. (I'm still drafting with FloorPlan Plus version 2. If I get ever it "right", I'll get it converted over somehow, even if I have to redraw everything.)


Garth L. Getgen

By David Hnytka (Leopardmadcat) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 08:25 pm: Edit

I am using Corel Draw Essentials, and have drawn the thing at 1"=3' scale, so I can probably export this to almost anything you need. I would like to see these other drawings to see what symbology I can use for 'safety' and compatability.

I will mail a few previews to SVC tonight as time allows.

If this goes well I might make other drawings, I've been thinking the OBC might be mighty nice...or mayhaps a Lyran next?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 09:51 pm: Edit

Freehand is the tool SVC uses. The newest Freehand MX can save as past versions but SVC tells me there are likely still going to be artifacs.

Freehand isn't all that expensive. Though I havn't had the cash of late I found that my Corel Draw Suite gets me competative upgrade pricing. Users of Adobe Illustrator get it too. Freehand MX for ~$150.00.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 12:03 am: Edit

I forget. I think Smartdraw (which is cheap) is the one that Freehand can read. It's not perfect (some colors and lines change randomly) but it's at least something I can edit. If I need to add a door here or delete one there, I need to do it, not have you do it over. If I cannot edit your file, then your file is of no use. We can use any generic public domain symbol but the man was asking about proprietary symbols invented by and owned by another company. We cannot use those.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 12:22 am: Edit

Well, duh ... would have helped if I had RTFM.

Sorry, Steve.


Garth L. Getgen

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 10:25 am: Edit

The Free Trader, Klingon PF, and Fed FF were all done with SmartDraw. It was really created to make things like flow charts and the like, but with a little creativity you can do all sorts of stuff.

Works allright, except for some random changes in colors and such that Steve mentioned when it gets opened in Freehand.

I have looked into getting freehand, but I don't get any competitive upgrade, so it is pretty expensive. Also, I have not seen any guarantee that the newest version for the PC Freehand will be more compatible with Steve's older MAC version of Freehand than what I have already, so I haven't shelled out the money for it.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 10:29 am: Edit

What we have works fine.

By David Hnytka (Leopardmadcat) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:55 pm: Edit

I have deleted the OLR.

After having it previed by Garth and recieving nothing but critisism on almost every aspect I realize it's fisked and I am wasting both mine and everyone elses time with it.

This is what I get for even trying...

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 09:54 pm: Edit

I'll make this breif as possible.

David, how long have you been doing Deck Plans? Are you an acomplished designer/engineer who is an authority on deck plans?

I suspect you are a beginner who had to start totally from scratch. The specifications for creating a usable set of SFU deck plans is so exacting and there is so many things to consider it's a wonder that anyone can produce them at all. Yet you expect little or no critticism on your first try?

Dude, you expect far too much from yourself. You should have expected you first work to be crap but that discussions of it would lead you to better and better works of art.

I make a living using my artist skills and I can tell you I would get NOWHERE with giving up and deleting (or smashing)my work the first time I get criticism on it. Yes, in my early days of tile the boss came in, pulled me asside and started adjusting each and every one of my tiles say "Piece of crap" each and every one. I learned to do better, got raises and eventually became a Master of my trade.

For your own good, dude, lighten up.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 10:23 pm: Edit

David,

I was going to send you an e-mail, but I'll say it here ... I am true sorry if you took offence to what I said -- or how I said it. Writing is not always the best way to convey meanings sometimes, especially when one is typing on the fly.

As I said, I loved the artwork itself, and I do think SVC would drool all over himself if he saw what you can do. I sent you a snap-shot of the crappy art I'm coming up with ... I'd kill to be able to draw like you.

I just thought you started out with on a scale about twice as big as what I thought (me, personally, just one guy's opinion) an Orion Light Raider should be. But, hey, I'm not SVC, and he's the guy you need to convince.

Don't give up, man ... you've got talent.


Garth L. Getgen

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 10:31 pm: Edit

SVC: Cool! ;)

David: What loren said, man.

Hummm, Smart draw. I'll find it, then I have to find my B10 deck plans I did the OLD fasion way.

PHD

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Edit

"This is what I get for even trying... "

Now, there's a really childish attitude designed to ensure failure, and a futile attempt to blame that failure on somebody other than the one who failed to have a reasonable attitude. We have said, dozens of times in print, it's better to try than not try. I never saw them, so I can't comment on what they looked like, but I can say that if you want to do anything for ADB you ask how first and start doing it second. That way, for example, you do it with a program we can edit, since otherwise, we cannot publish it at all.

By David Hnytka (Leopardmadcat) on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 12:58 am: Edit

"Now, there's a really childish attitude designed to ensure failure, and a futile attempt to blame that failure on somebody other than the one who failed to have a reasonable attitude."

Nice...someone gets disapointed and you berrrate and belittle, Your social skills suck worse than mine.

Now what would convince me to try again after that? Not that little speech thank you.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 01:15 am: Edit

After two childish tirades from you (not to mention the original plan to violate our copyrights) what makes you think anybody wants to talk to you?

By David Hnytka (Leopardmadcat) on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 01:39 am: Edit

I came ASKING about that.
Thanks for the encouragment, it's obvious I've made many mistakes.

1st was starting the deckplans.
2nd was asking about them.
3rd was showing them to anyone.
4th was responding back.

Your're totally right and I am wrong.

Goodbye

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 05:34 am: Edit

Jeez, WTF man? Who rubbed you the wrong way? If you read what is written, you will see that folks are just giving you ideas for how to go about helping out around here.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 10:11 am: Edit

Chris; He doesn't apparently want help. He apparently wants his ego massaged.