Federation Commander Forum Index Federation Commander
A NEW fast paced board game of starship combat!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

ISC pre-arming
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Rules Questions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dan Ibekwe
Commander


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:07 am    Post subject: ISC pre-arming Reply with quote

As I understand it, in FC multi-turn arming weapons may start a scenario with pre-loading energy if the player chooses, but at the penalty of the ship's batteries being empty on turn one.

Does this apply to ISC ships with both Plasma Torps and PPDs? By draining the batteries, can an ISC Star Cruiser start with *both* her PPD *and* her Plasma -Ss armed?

Seems a bit generous.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DNordeen
Commander


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 564

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say yes, because photon loading has never specifically related it to the amount of energy stored in batteries.

For example the CA has 4 batteries, but pre-loading requires 8 points of power (4 phot x 2 power). So therefore it's impossible for the CA to use it's batteries (4 pts) to preload all the photons.

Basically, you used your energy to pre-load weapons and didn't have anything to charge the batteries. With that in mind, the ISC should be able to pre-load all their weapons too.
_________________
Speed is life; Patience is victory

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bolo_MK_XL
Captain


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 836
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would have to say, no you can't start with Plasma-S' loaded -- since they are 3 turn arming ---
Though during the turn you could launch it as a quick load F ----
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Ibekwe
Commander


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

....since you only get *one* turn of pre-loading; the torps cannot be fired (except a fast loads Fs) before turn two.

As the man said, D'oh.

Which would have utterly changed the outcome of last nights' game (a blockade-running FT was crippled and captured after being hit by a pair of bolted Pl-S on turn one, just too soon for her allies to intervene).

Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 4069
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, plasmas (regardless of any other weapons present) do not get full loading. They only get the first turn of loading. (Except Pl-Fs, of course, which always start fully loaded.) Also note that this first turn of arming does NOT require the sacrifice of battery energy. It is "free".

Second, PPDs are explicitly granted the analogous capability of (4C2c), so they may sacrifice their battery power to be fully armed (with normal loads) on turn one.

So, yes, a (for example) ISC CA will can start the turn with its PPD fully loaded and its Pl-S torpedoes on their second turn of arming.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DNordeen
Commander


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 564

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to make sure I understand,

Prior to Turn 1: Torps are pre-loaded (no loss of batteries) and PPD is pre-loaded (lose the batteries)

Energy Allocation of Turn 1: You pay for turn 2 arming of the Torps and pay to fully load the PPDs.

Is that right?
_________________
Speed is life; Patience is victory

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 4069
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 657

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But you can blow your batteries to complete the second arming turn for plasma G/S/R and thus start turn 1 as the third turn of arming, or did I missread that?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4754
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savedfromwhat wrote:
But you can blow your batteries to complete the second arming turn for plasma G/S/R and thus start turn 1 as the third turn of arming, or did I missread that?

(4J2e) START OF TURN: Plasma armed ships begin scenarios (unless the scenario rules state otherwise) with type-F launchers fully armed and with type G/S/R launchers holding the first turn of arming energy, and with full batteries.

I see nothing about being able to blow the batteries and have two turns of arming. (4C2c) applies to Photon Torpedoes, but is further modified by (4K2a) and (4M2a) to include Hellbore Cannons and Plasmatic Pulsar Devices (PPDs).

Now, remember that you can fast-load a Type F torpedo in a larger launcher (Type G/S/R) and fire it after two turns of arming - including the hypothetical turn 0 and turn 1... (4J2d) Option 1.
_________________
Commander, Battlegroup Murfreesboro
Department Head, ACTASF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 4069
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savedfromwhat wrote:
But you can blow your batteries to complete the second arming turn for plasma G/S/R and thus start turn 1 as the third turn of arming, or did I missread that?


No, you cannot do that. There is no rule that permits that.

On hellbores and PPDs, note that (4K2a) and (4M2a) were only part of the playtest rules. In the published rules in DK, there is no reference to (4C2c) in (4K2a). Instead there is an explicit analog at (4K2c). When the PPD rule gets published "for real" it will also have such an explicit rule (most likely at (4M2c)).
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Active Ingredient
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"But you can blow your batteries to complete the second arming turn for plasma G/S/R and thus start turn 1 as the third turn of arming, or did I missread that?"

I thought the same thing and have always played that way. But now that I looked for the rule, it seems to have mysteriously disappeared from my rulebook. Sad

P.S. Sorry JPAT ... my bad!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4754
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Active Ingredient wrote:
I thought the same thing and have always played that way. But now that I looked for the rule, it seems to have mysteriously disappeared from my rulebook. Sad


AI: Has your rulebook been RetConned? (as seems to frequently happen in the Star Trek Universe) Rolling Eyes
_________________
Commander, Battlegroup Murfreesboro
Department Head, ACTASF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Active Ingredient
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So ... have ya ever been in the situation where all the cool kids are using a word and you have no idea what it means and you pretend to know what it means just to fit in ....? Embarassed

Uh ... yeah ... heh heh ... my rulebook's been "RetConned" ... heh heh ... um .... Good one! (now where's that 'thumbs up with a dorky look on my face emoticon...? ) Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
djdood
Commodore


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 3412
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RetCon = Retro-active Continuity.
This is where the creators of something put out something that conflicts with with things they did before and expect the fans to not notice (or just grit their teeth and ignore it...).

The SFU has been amazingly free of this. Paramount's treatment of Star Trek (especially in the Berman & Bragha years) is pretty riddled with it.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 4069
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'dood,

In my experience "retcon" is a deliberate act. It isn't that the fans aren't expected to notice, but rather that they are expected to just accept it. It is usually done because things have spun out of control and the new editors are trying to create consistency even at the cost of what has happened before.

This is most common in comic books, where their "histories" are completely redesigned, or at least tweeked, every few years. I believe comic books are where the term first originated.

What you are describing is either "sloppiness", "carelessness", "cluelessness", "idiocy", or "stupidity". In such cases there is no deliberate attempt to make changes, but rather no attempt is being made to be consistent. These type of changes are not "retcons", but just pedestrian inconsistency.

For an example of "retcon" in the SFU, we have the 2X era presented in the old Supplement 2. It didn't work out, so it has been removed from the SFU and will eventually be replaced with something else.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Rules Questions All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group