Federation Commander

[Kang]

In Fleet Scale, smaller Orion ships have a 'Warp Det' box, which effectively is a half-point of engine damage due to hyping the engines. If you hype the engines again, this erases the Warp Det box and gives you a full point of engine damage.

Now, normal 'hyped' engine damage can be repaired using the usual repair rules, subject to the new restriction on when this repair can occur of course.

However, can the Warp Det box also be repaired? Say for two repair points? After all, it is effectively a type of engine damage, but you need to hype the engines twice on order to convert it to a 'full' damage point.

If there was no other damage on the ship, it would be useful to be able to use my repair points to repair the Warp Det box rather than simply let the repair points go to waste.

What do you guys think?
_________________

[Mike]

Sounds like a good idea and a fair one to me!

[Steve Cole]

Mike West: make it happen! (I have a few blank lines in that column of Comm-37 since we dropped the no-warp/no-move rule.)
_________________
The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[mjwest]

Kang mentioned giving the repair a discount. In general, I think we probably want to avoid any exceptions. (Except for drones, but that is reloading, which is itself its own kind of exception, anyway.)

So, how about if the Warp Det box is repaired just like any other "power" box?
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy

[Kang]

[Kang]

There is one potential problem, though: how do we factor in the repair of the Warp Det box with the hyping of the engines again on the next turn. Because it effectively takes two turns to 'break' a warp box on these Fleet scale small ships, you can effectively 'half repair' that engine box before the ship loses the whole box, if you follow me.

This is of curse regulated by the fact that the SLV and the LR have only two repair points. This meant that if the ship hypes its engines on one turn, then again on the next, the Warp Det box cannot be repaired in time to make a difference.

Therefore as long as any ships using this rule have only 2 repair points, they will not be able to repair the Warp Det box before the engine box dies properly.

So it should be fine.
_________________

[mjwest]

Well, before you can worry too much about it, remember that no damage caused by doubling the engines can be repaired on the same turn. (The damage is taken AFTER repairs.)

Also, if you take the Warp Det box as damage for doubling, start repairs during the next turn, then double again, anyway, those repair points are lost, as you effectively cancelled the repairs when you doubled the engines.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy

[Kang]

[mjwest]

Let's do an example.

Our intrepid fleet scale Orion LR doubles his engines on, let's say, Turn 3. After movement on Turn 3, normal repairs are done. After this, it is time to take engine damage due to the engine doubling. Let's assume our daring captain sustained no internal damage this turn due to his wise use of doubling his engines. So, no damage is repaired during the repair phase and, after that, he marks his Warp Det box due to the doubling.

So, the earliest he may start to repair the Warp Det box is Turn 4. On Turn 4, our captain does not have to run hot, so he does not double engines. He continues to take no internal damage, so, at the end of Turn 4, he decides to repair the damage to the Warp Det box. However, he is only a fleet scale LR, so he only has two repair points, and he won't be able to finish repairs this turn.

(Had the captain needed to double the engines again on Turn 4, then this whole conversation is moot. At the end of the turn, he could have started repairs, but since they aren't complete, the Warp Det box is still marked as damaged. After repairs, the damage from doubling has to be taken, which clears the Warp Det box, but marks out a real engine. Since the repair was to the Warp Det box, the repair would be cancelled (the Warp Det box is now good again).)

Now, on Turn 5, the captain must double engines again. (Smells like photons to me ...) Again, the ship miraculously takes no internal damage. At the end of the turn the Warp Det box is repaired with a single repair point. Immediately after that, the Warp Det box is again marked, to show the damage from doubling the engines.

So, I spoke to inconcisely in my prior post. The issue was really that doubling those two turns in a row didn't allow for the repairs to be complete before the Warp Det box was cleared anyway. You will have to alternate turns with doubling in order to keep from taking actual warp damage. (Assuming, of course, that you don't take real damage in some other way, thereby really confusing what you want to repair.)
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy

[Kang]

Got it. Thank, Mike.

Sometimes life's simpletons have to have things explained to them piece-by-piece
_________________

[Kang]

Sorry for the necro, but did this clarification ever get included anywhere? I don't recall seeing it....

Anyway, I have another clarification request concerning Orion engine damage.

Firstly, I feel that the part where it says that a ship must double all or none should be taken out, because the third paragraph states [and that was inserted later] that a ship has the option to double one engine at a time.

Given that a ship can double one engine at a time, then, and talking Squadron scale for now, I also feel that the instructions for damage are not too clear either. It says that a ship loses two boxes, then it says it loses one box per engine. I do think that half of the first paragraph could easily be deleted to give a huge increase in clarity.

The way I interpret it, and have always played it, is that for all ships except for the LR, each engine that is doubled suffers one box of damage per turn. So if I double both engines on my CR, I take one hit on each engine per turn.

For the LR, it suffers one box total damage per turn, so there is no point in doubling only one engine. Again, talking Sqn scale. I haven't played Orions under Flt scale, but it would seem that there's no point in doubling only one engine in Fleet scale since you only lose one box anyway, like the LR in Sqn scale.

Does that all sound right?
_________________

[Wolverin61]

[Kang]

Tactfully put, Andy

Yes, there is a reference to the contradiction, but I still think it needs to say explicitly that each engine you double takes a point of damage.

Still, once the 'offending' paragraph has been removed, it makes more sense, especially if [as I am] it's read by an SFB veteran.

I think I will start my own in-house CRUL-II document with all the post-Rev 5 revisions in it.
_________________

[Mike]

Kang, if you do your own CRUL for the Revision-5 rules, why not name it CRUL-5 and put it up here. It would surely be nice for all of us to have and it is not currently being done.
_________________
Mike

=====
Sandpaper gets the job done, but makes for a lot of friction.

[Kang]

Heh. If I do it, I will be sure and ask permission before I post anything. What usually happens is that it's all co-ordinated through Mike West [i.e. he does it!]; he's the proper rules guru
_________________