Federation Commander

[mjwest]

The reason I have not posted much followup here is because I really don't know what else to say.

The line of reasoning I used at the time is that when two ships are in separate hexes one sub-pulse, then enter the same hex, then the "last ship in" is used to determine relative facings. If two ships move from one hex to another hex together, then they are still in the "same hex". The physical hex may be different, but they have not stopped being in the same hex. That was the line of reasoning I used at the time. And, quite frankly, no one brought up the other interpretation prior to now. (Nor did I think of it.)

As for the concept of "relative facing", it is just a term I use to get across the idea that if a ship turns in place and has a new shield facing the opponent still in the same hex, the relative positioning has not actually changed, even though the facing shield has.

The whole idea that two ships would enter the same hex, then either stay in that same hex, or continue to move such that they keep occupying the same hex each step of the way was never really thought of. It should be an extremely rare situation. And when you consider that a ship can always reset the relative facing by simply spending one sub-pulse (not impulse, but a single sub-pulse) in different hexes, it is not hard to do.

So, I am a bit baffled by this tempest in a teapot over something that is very rare, is not a new ruling, is not a change to a rule, and is rather easy to work within.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[Kang]

[storeylf]

[storeylf]

[Kang]

[Mike]

I guess part of my problem understanding what would happen to 2 ships that moved from a same hex into another same hex is the "argument from silence" approach to it.

Granted, it would be a rare occurrence, but it has happened in a game in which I played. I was more than understandably curious.

I understand MJWest's ruling now (I think?). No matter what the order of precedence might be if ships move into the same hex from another same hex, their relative positions remain the same that they were before they moved into the same hex to start with, even in the rare and unlikely cases of being several sub-pulses before, entire impulses before, or over a turn break.

What threw me for a loop was the ruling from April, 2009 about shield facings when ships enter the same hex. The odd case of one ship having a better turn mode or going faster than the other caused there to be a difference in the shield facings when they entered the same hex.

I was applying that model to this situation. As it turns out, that was a mistake.

I think I have it cleared up now.
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Mike

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Sandpaper gets the job done, but makes for a lot of friction.

[phul]

My apologies to continue this discussion. But I need to clarify, since this thread had generated confusion for me on this rule where I had none before.

Example:

Ship A going 8
Ship B going 16

Say on at the last Sub-Impulse of Impulse 1, Ship A moved into Ship B's hex, resulting in Ship A Shield #1 looking at Ship B shield #4. On Impulse 2, Ship B Decel's on Sub-Pulse 2. On SP 4, Ship A moves forward (being the slower ship), and Ship B follows.

How I've been playing it:

Ship B Shield #1 is now looking at Ship A shield #4.

Per my understanding of this thread, what should happen is this:

Since they have not occupied a different hex at the end of any sub-pulse since Impulse 1 Sub-Pulse 4, Ship A shield #1 is still facing Ship B shield #4.

In addition, since 'relative position' does not change, but facings can...

If on Impulse 2, Sub-Pulse 4 Ship B instead did a left turn, and Ship A did a left slip:

Ship B shield #4 would be facing Ship A shield #6
-or is it-
Ship B shield #5 would be facing Ship A shield #1

[Mike]

I don't see how Ship A going 8 can move into Ship B's hex with B going 16 on the last sub-pulse of an impulse? Ship B would have precedence and would move second because it is the faster ship (unless B decelerated on the last sub-pulse of the impulse...that was not stated).
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Mike

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Sandpaper gets the job done, but makes for a lot of friction.

[phul]

[DirkSJ]

Ship B shield #5 would be facing Ship A shield #1

Relative direction is what is preserved. To add letters to it lets say they were both facing A. Impulse before, as you say, Ship A's #1 facing Ship B's #4. So Ship B is in the A direction of Ship A.

Ship B turns left, facing F. Ship A slips left facing A. Since the two have not left the same hex they are still in the same relative position as before: Ship B is in the A direction from ship A. Thus the above configuration.

[storeylf]

[Kang]

Sorry to necromance this thread, but the relevance will be clear.

The new rulebook says, in (3C6d),
" If two ships in the same hex move on the same sub-pulse to the same (other) hex, and the ships have the same speed and turn mode, the relative facing remains unchanged ..."

What if they have the same speed but not the same turn mode?
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[storeylf]

Aye - I spotted that in the other preview post, but was waiting to see the book when I atually bought it to check that out. On the face of it, it sounds like same time does now mean only if simultaneous move and is determined by last moves, rather than at the point they initially moved into same hex.

[mjwest]

Storey has it right.

Basically, the very last move is the one that counts, so shield position can indeed change sub-pulse to sub-pulse, even if the ships are continuously moving into shared hexes.

So, the old case only applies if the ships are the same speed and same turn mode.
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Federation Commander Answer Guy

[Kang]

So, to clarify, that's now different from the old system?
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