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Federation Commander
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mjwest
Commodore
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 4095
Location: Dallas, Texas
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 Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| DirkSJ wrote: | | There is a fun edge case that I have yet to see in play that perhaps MJW can comment on. The base burn through rule uses the words "does not penetrate the shield". So if someone has a 20 point shield and you deal exactly 20 to it...is there burn through? You could read that one both ways. You've penetrated the shield. You just didn't score damage. |
If the target has a 20 point shield and you do exactly 20 points, you would do 19 points to the shield and 1 point of burn through. Even though you have theoretically dropped the shield, you have not actually "penetrated" the shield. You have to score internals to "penetrate" the shield.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1976
Location: Devon, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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More questions
(3G5a1) says that if a player does not pay to activate his panels during Energy Allocation, it counts as a 'deactivation' and the panels can't be activated for two full impulses.
1) What if the panels were already dropped, say in Impulse #5 of the previous turn - does the rule stull apply?
2) What is the earliest point in the current turn (in which the panels were not paid for) at which the panels can be raised? The Other Functions Phase of Impulse #2, or that of Impulse #3?
3) If panels are deactivated, does the Andromedan player have to pay again to reactivate them, or does the payment from Energy Allocation last the whole turn irrespective of the number of deacs/activations?
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1887
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| mjwest wrote: | | DirkSJ wrote: | | There is a fun edge case that I have yet to see in play that perhaps MJW can comment on. The base burn through rule uses the words "does not penetrate the shield". So if someone has a 20 point shield and you deal exactly 20 to it...is there burn through? You could read that one both ways. You've penetrated the shield. You just didn't score damage. |
If the target has a 20 point shield and you do exactly 20 points, you would do 19 points to the shield and 1 point of burn through. Even though you have theoretically dropped the shield, you have not actually "penetrated" the shield. You have to score internals to "penetrate" the shield. |
Thats a discusson we had last night, and has happened in a few of our games, We had read it is as damage equal to shields means no burnthrough but were discussing the effect of batteries.
From what you say If I have 10 shield and take 10 then there will be 9 and a burnthrough? If I take 11 damage and battery 1 or 2 there will still be a burnthrough? Effectively, if you hit for 10 damage or more you will always either do 1 burthrough or at least 1+ internals. There is no way of avoiding that? |
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terryoc
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1384
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Lee: Yes, if there is 10 points of damage there will be burnthrough. Shield reinforcement does nothing to change that. (Mike, this is a common misconception about burn-through, it's come up in my games too. I think a clarification could be added to the CRUL if one hasn't already.)
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| terryoc wrote: | | Lee: Yes, if there is 10 points of damage there will be burnthrough. Shield reinforcement does nothing to change that. (Mike, this is a common misconception about burn-through, it's come up in my games too. I think a clarification could be added to the CRUL if one hasn't already.) |
Its not the shield reinforcement reducing to less than 10 I was getting at, we are aware that 10 damage in intial volley is burnthrough regardless of reinforcement.
The point I was getting at (but was not being clear about) was reducing damage to exactly allow the shield to 'die', as noted we had read that penetration rule as where the shield would exactly be reduced to zero there would be no burnthrough. |
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 4095
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Kang wrote: | (3G5a1) says that if a player does not pay to activate his panels during Energy Allocation, it counts as a 'deactivation' and the panels can't be activated for two full impulses.
1) What if the panels were already dropped, say in Impulse #5 of the previous turn - does the rule stull apply? |
No. If they were already turned off, not powering then doesn't turn them off again.
Note that, since you can only activate them in Energy Allocation and the Other Functions phase, if you don't pay in Energy Allocation, you won't be able to have them active during the Offensive Fire phase in Impulse 1.
| Quote: | | 2) What is the earliest point in the current turn (in which the panels were not paid for) at which the panels can be raised? The Other Functions Phase of Impulse #2, or that of Impulse #3? |
Assuming they were deactivated in Energy Allocation, you cannot turn them back on until the Other Functions phase of Impulse 3, because of the requirement for "two full impulses". Yes, this means three impulses worth of Offensive Fire phases.
| Quote: | | 3) If panels are deactivated, does the Andromedan player have to pay again to reactivate them, or does the payment from Energy Allocation last the whole turn irrespective of the number of deacs/activations? |
You only have to pay once. So, if you already paid the power in Energy Allocation, you are good for the whole turn.
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mjwest
Commodore
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| storeylf wrote: | | The point I was getting at (but was not being clear about) was reducing damage to exactly allow the shield to 'die', as noted we had read that penetration rule as where the shield would exactly be reduced to zero there would be no burnthrough. |
It is not possible to perfectly drop a shield of strength 10 or more to exactly zero without causing burn through.
The rule is that if a volley consists of 10 damage points, or more, one point will be internals. Period. So, 10 points of damage to a 10 point shield does one internal (the burn-through) and knocks down nine shield boxes. If two points of reinforcement are used, then there is still one internal, and seven shield boxes will be knocked down.
When you think about it, there is no "special exception". If you do 10 points of damage (or more) you do an internal.
| terryoc wrote: | | (Mike, this is a common misconception about burn-through, it's come up in my games too. I think a clarification could be added to the CRUL if one hasn't already.) |
So it would seem.
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DirkSJ
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 239
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| mjwest wrote: | | The rule is that if a volley consists of 10 damage points, or more, one point will be internals. Period. |
This is very clear. I request this sort of wording be used instead of things that can be interpreted multiple ways like "penetrated". |
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Kang
Fleet Captain
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1976
Location: Devon, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| mjwest wrote: | | Kang wrote: | (3G5a1) says that if a player does not pay to activate his panels during Energy Allocation, it counts as a 'deactivation' and the panels can't be activated for two full impulses.
1) What if the panels were already dropped, say in Impulse #5 of the previous turn - does the rule stull apply? |
No. If they were already turned off, not powering then doesn't turn them off again. |
Thanks for that; that's now clear. However I would say that the original wording in the rulebook is unclear. It appears from that wording that if you do not power the panels in EA, then they are down for two complete impulses and previous turns are not mentioned. Perhaps this is one for the CRUL/Communique?
| Quote: | | Quote: | | 2) What is the earliest point in the current turn (in which the panels were not paid for) at which the panels can be raised? The Other Functions Phase of Impulse #2, or that of Impulse #3? |
Assuming they were deactivated in Energy Allocation, you cannot turn them back on until the Other Functions phase of Impulse 3, because of the requirement for "two full impulses". Yes, this means three impulses worth of Offensive Fire phases. |
That was what I thought it would be, thanks. However, in the light of the above question, please can I clarify that I have got this right: I turn off my panels in Impulse #7 of Turn 1; assuming I power the panels in EA, I can then reactivate the panels in the Other Functions phase of Turn 2, Impulse #1. Is that right?
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